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Sound City - movie directed by Dave Grohl
Old 2nd February 2013
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman ➑️
...believe me, if you cut your tracks there Helen Keller could mix them successfully.
Biggest laugh I've had in a long time.
Old 2nd February 2013
  #32
Gear Nut
 
Chris Martins's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Great movie with a great vibe. Lots of humor, pretty emotional at times, and what an awesome cast it is...
Old 2nd February 2013 | Show parent
  #33
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Anyone know what is the even older console than the Neve now in the Studio A renamed 'Fairfax', which was mentioned in the film ?

Looks very Dalcon..
Picture here :
http://fairfaxrecordings.com/studio
Old 2nd February 2013 | Show parent
  #34
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Ergo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Reid ➑️
Anyone know what is the even older console than the Neve now in the studio renamed Fairfax which was mentioned in the film ?

Looks very Dalcon..
Picture here :
Fairfax Recordings, The Studio | Fairfax Recordings
That's the passive console Kevin Augunas got custom made for the studio. No panpots, only left or right. So not old, but new and custom made for Fairfax.

Kinda makes you think. The dude had an old EMI console, sold it off for the bare essentials.
Old 2nd February 2013 | Show parent
  #35
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ergo ➑️
That's the passive console Kevin Augunas got custom made for the studio. No panpots, only left or right. So not old, but new and custom made for Fairfax.

Kinda makes you think. The dude had an old EMI console, sold it off for the bare essentials.
Interesting.. thanks for that..

I guess the EMI would be a much slower console with the amount of
transformers in the path.. and so much hassle to keep running..

Makes sense.. Looks really cool..
Old 2nd February 2013
  #36
Gear Addict
 
Ergo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Reid ➑️
Interesting.. thanks for that..

I guess the EMI would be a much slower console with the amount of
transformers in the path.. and so much hassle to keep running..

Makes sense.. Looks really cool..
If you look up his interview on Pensados Place, he mentions it there.

Inspiring interview with regards to stripping things down and getting on with making music.

Then again, he's got THAT room and a pretty sick mic collection.
Old 2nd February 2013
  #37
Gear Nut
 
engineroom's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Downloaded and watched last night, and I think for me, it took me back to why I even wanted to play music in the first place.

When Rick Springfield talked about the 'high' of songwriting, when ideas are forming and things start to click, reminded me so much of why I will always be in a band with others... That magic moment is what makes me the happiest as a musician and engineer.

To not over think, make creative choices, then rehearse until it's right, that is what the last half is this movie is paying homage too, and I think it was a great way to honor the studio!
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Old 2nd February 2013 | Show parent
  #38
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Mertmo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Great posts everyone!

Great film, can't wait to watch it again.
Can't wait for my next band tracking session!
Old 2nd February 2013 | Show parent
  #39
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mitgong's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus77 ➑️

I think my favorite moment, though, is when Grohl asks McCartney "why can't it always be this easy," and Sir Paul says "it is."
This, for me, was the moment in the film when the Death Star exploded. Everybody in the theater gasped.

It was like looking at Zeus.
Old 2nd February 2013 | Show parent
  #40
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
My impression was not that it was an anti-digital rant. Only that digital was the "enabler".

I think the theme of the flick was that music and our primal attraction to it stems from it being a performance art. The more we remove the performance aspect of it from the production the less likely it to appeal to that emotional instinct.

Frankly, this is such a basic fundamental I find it bizarre that it needs repeating - but it does. I'm reminded of some of those Beatles out-takes where John Lennon is horsing around, exaggerating performances, just to give the rest of the band an energy boost. Everyone was looking for that indescribable magic moment, but today we mistake "perfection" for this - or rather we accept it as a replacement for "magic".
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Old 2nd February 2013
  #41
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I repeat it around here and elsewhere constantly, and get smacked around on a regular basis as an elitist. The bulk of people out there now recording music probably can't even make a song without the cheater tools provided by digital technology, to the point that they are considered essential now, whereas actual talent really isn't.

It's fine if you are a songwriter and want to do demos for other people or to shop around. But of course what's really going on is that people are posting these songs as though they actually performed them, when they couldn't begin to stand up and perform them live. That's my real problem with it. It cheapens the value of developing real talent, and creates kids who want to be stars, not artists. Why put in all that time getting good when you can just fix it in the computer?
Old 2nd February 2013 | Show parent
  #42
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brill bedroom's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
My take away from seeing the film didn't actually have much to do with format, but rather more about how great it is when capable musicians really play together andf lay it down.

Dave Grohl to McCartney "God, why can't be this easy all the time?"

McCartney: "Ummm, it is."

Also, lest it not be noted, old footage of Stevie Nicks. Now, THAT'S analog. She was printed at +9 in her day, if you know what I mean.
Old 2nd February 2013
  #43
Gear Addict
 
CAT5's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The part where dave says to Butch "yeah Butch, you tell mr. McCartney what he does wrong... " Hilarious.
Old 2nd February 2013
  #44
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Just saw the preview and went: What more can we ask for...
Old 3rd February 2013
  #45
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I never got notified that the movie is up for download. I prepaid back in early December and forgot about it. But I'm glad I stumbled on this thread and watched the movie today. It made me feel nostalgic, because majority of records I've done were cut live in the studio with only selective overdubs.
I really want to get the album, but I don't use iTunes, which is seemingly the only way of getting it right now. I hope it will also come out as a real disc I can pick up on Amazon.com
Old 3rd February 2013
  #46
Lives for gear
 
sdbmastering's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I've rent the movie in iTunes and enjoyed it a lot. First hour was great, really great! Then it gets weird with all the anti pro tools rants but thumbs up for Trent Reznor to appear and put some sense and balance to the whole thing. And it ends well, which is all that matters. IMO there was no need to start a war on the digital format, the tools are not to blame here, as other folks mentioned already.
Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #47
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Daedalus77's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
What I also loved about Trent R.'s commentary (perhaps the best in the film, I think) is that he talks about his training as a classical musician, asserting that it is vital what he does and never got in the way of any sort of "punk aesthetic" to which he might have felt kinship. Goes along with one of the dominant themes of the film, I think: the necessity of musicianship for making great records (whatever the format).
Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #48
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RKrizman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Reid ➑️
Anyone know what is the even older console than the Neve now in the Studio A renamed 'Fairfax', which was mentioned in the film ?

Looks very Dalcon..
Picture here :
Fairfax Recordings, The Studio | Fairfax Recordings
Is the studio for hire, or is it his own personal use place?

-R
Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #49
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
what is the appeal about this studio? some pretty average sounding recordings IMO. If you look at the history of LA recording studios it is clear that western( formerly cello now EW), Sunset, Ocean Way, Village and even Grandmaster Recorders are/were the best studios in L.A., if not the world. If you want the most professional drum sound, you go to a Bill Putman designed room or Ocean Way. Sound city has a pretty lame room sound. Sort of cheap sounding.

I think this soundcity thing is more vibe than quality. If so, I would just tote a lavalamp, some incense and a pocket full of gold in my lunch sack and go to Ocean way for the day, to get some real sound sounds. If I was going to make a demotape I suppose the Neve at SC would be a bonus.
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Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #50
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Guys, Marshall McLuhan....the medium IS the message.

The honesty of a message can not be overstated in terms of how important is to an audience. I think that's also part of what this great film was hinting at.

Digital has a stigma. It's there. Audiences (more often than not) now have embedded in them the presumption that a performance has been altered if it was recorded digitally. It is deemed as not honest (sometimes unfairly, but no matter).

Analog does not have this stigma. Of course, we know that a performance can be altered in analog as well, but not to the degree it can be manipulated in digital (arguably - but again, no matter; the perception is still different for analog).

This debate is akin to what happens in professional sports. I'm sure you have observed that when people know that a game is rigged, their interest dwindles. Well, people (now) often times assume that a song is rigged if it was recorded digitally. The medium is the message.

How much does an email mean to you? How about a hand-written letter?


P.S. These are observations. I (personally) am a fan of digital recording technology for a myriad of different uses in a multitude of different types of art. My views are pretty much in lock-step with Trent Reznor's (as seen in the film) on this issue.
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Old 3rd February 2013
  #51
Gear Addict
 
WasserSpitzer's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Dave Grohl is such a feelgood guy . Great movie!
It`s more about great talent than anything else , though .
Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #52
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Hypnotic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman ➑️
I believe when he did that he took down all the dimensions of Sound City room A and tried to duplicate it.

I worked there many times over the years. The Neve console coupled with that room was an amazing combo. Whether you print to tape or PT, I don't see how the digital revolution would negate those two great assets the studio had to offer. I can't believe there wasn't a price point where bands would be lined up around the block to record in that room, then go finish elsewhere. Because believe me, if you cut your tracks there Helen Keller could mix them successfully.

The third great analog asset they had was an amazing 1957 Hammond C3/Leslie 147, which now resides in my own studio

-R
Good points, especially concerning the pricing! How could they not have lowered the prices and kept the doors open? Their stuff had been paid off for probably 20 years, right?
Old 3rd February 2013
  #53
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Hypnotic's Avatar
Can somebody tell me why they couldn't have just used the Neve console and pro tools together?
Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #54
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Matt Allison's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Just watched this on OnDemand. Amazing flick. Anyone into music needs to see it.
Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #55
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gideon352 ➑️
Digital has a stigma. It's there. Audiences (more often than not) now have embedded in them the presumption that a performance has been altered if it was recorded digitally.
Sort of a misconception though. Digital multitracks have been around since the 19-70s. Lots of records have been done with digital and still retain a certain organic feel. Bands like the Scorpions, Hawkwind, Yes, Rush recorded digitally in the late 70s and early 80s. What about SSL E series computer or GML auto? is that cheating?

Studio trickery has been around since the 50s. Bands have varisped for 50 years to get tighter performances and better pitch on vocals. Harmonizers have been used for pitch correction since the 70s and before that chorus, delays, ADT all in attempt to cover things up. Some of the biggest rock and pop records of all time were heavily edited and cheated with razor blades, slaved reels, varispeed, studio musicians, samplers since the 60s. The only difference now is it is more common and digital masks less artifacts, so tools get used more plus they are available for very low cost.

This whole "keep it real" crusade that some of these people are on like the producer of this film are out of touch with reality. The fact of the matter is, bands like the Beatles to Metallica have edited stuff to death in the studio. Sgt Pepper Abbey Road to the black album are heavily edited and studios were used to the max.

At the end of the day, the reason why people cheat with pitch correction and quantizing and use automated consoles is because it's a faster way to get the job done. Bands don't have 5 million dollar budgets anymore. The records need to get finished. Bands can't block out 6 months at Abbey Road to track and mix Magical Mystery Tour or Dark Side of the moon.

I do find it ironic that many of the bands that have recorded at Sound City have sampled. Nirvana, RageATM, Metallica , NIN, Slipknot, RATT and probably many more have samples all over their records. So it seems hypocritical. Not to mention none of the bands that are known for recording there have overly impressive vocals. No offense to the greats like Neil young and Tom Petty and the Late great Johnny Cash and Anthony kiedis; but none of them are exactly famous for perfect pitch or even anything remotely in tune.

It's noble they don't use pitch correction but it's not as if any one with any level of musical ear cannot tell these guys are a little sour. But their music is raw and honest so it warrants the sincerity of no vocal trickery. However they still used some techniques, chorus, doubling, ADT and probably varispeed and some other things. If they were doing pop music they wouldn't be able to get away with their off the cuff style.

I just don't think it matters what medium you record on, cheating goes on no matter what. And personally as long as the music translates well, it's perfectly ok to do whatever it takes to get the job done. I don't look at bands like Queen or the Beatles or Led negatively because they used studio trickery.

I remember overdubbing being looked at as a sort of copout. Who doesn't overdub? everyone does. I think the only successful "live" studio record to come out in the last 30 years was Amorica or one of those early 90s Crowes records. To me I don't see any difference between overdubs and pitch correction as far as the cheat factor goes. They are both unnatural and a crutch. But I also think both techniques can be used effectively and musically.

Before digital pitch correction lots of artists used guide vocals. They would have a studio singer come in lay down a guide
and they would try to double it. Or they would go line by line, or go word by word with a piano or synth guide. Is that cheating? If Eventides and Melodyne didn't exist artists would still use that technique along with comping, the only difference is, it would just take longer to get the tracks done. But they would get done and with studio trickery.
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Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #56
Lives for gear
 
lpkyer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I went to a local cinema here in mtl; two theatres sold out for the film.
It was pretty cool. Not enough Weezer though, I would have loved to know more about pinkerton and joe barresi...
Oh and the funniest part is BY FAR when Lars Ulrich talks about "feel" hahahahah


I wonder if Dave Grohl ever tried RADAR ?
Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #57
Lives for gear
 
Kaoz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet ➑️
This whole crusade that some of these people are on like the producer of this film are out of touch with reality. The fact of the matter is, bands like the Beatles to Metallica have edited stuff to death in the studio.
Sgt Pepper Abbey Road to the black album are heavily edited.

....

I do find it ironic that many of the bands that have recorded at Sound City have sampled. Nirvana, RageATM, Metallica , NIN, Slipknot, RATT
and probably many more have samples all over their records. So it seems hypocritical. Not to mention none of the bands that are known for recording there have overly impressive vocals. No offense to Neil young, Petty, Johnny Cash, Anthony kiedis but they aren't exactly famous for perfect pitch or even anything remotely in tune.
And someone else fails spectacularly at getting what the film is all about.

Congratulations.

Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #58
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz ➑️
And someone else fails spectacularly at getting what the film is all about.

Congratulations.




Oh that's right I get what the film is about, it's about the producer making some extra money.
Sorry but there is no spiritual message here unless you are naive.
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Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #59
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet ➑️
Sort of a misconception though. Digital multitracks have been around since the 19-70s. Lots of records have been done with digital and still retain a certain organic feel. Bands like the Scorpions, Hawkwind, Yes, Rush recorded digitally in the late 70s and early 80s. What about SSL E series computer or GML auto? is that cheating?

Studio trickery has been around since the 50s. Bands have varisped for 50 years to get tighter performances and better pitch on vocals. Harmonizers have been used for pitch correction since the 70s and before that chorus, delays, ADT all in attempt to cover things up. Some of the biggest rock and pop records of all time were heavily edited and cheated with razor blades, slaved reels, varispeed, studio musicians, samplers since the 60s. The only difference now is it is more common and digital masks less artifacts, so tools get used more plus they are available for very low cost.

This whole "keep it real" crusade that some of these people are on like the producer of this film are out of touch with reality. The fact of the matter is, bands like the Beatles to Metallica have edited stuff to death in the studio. Sgt Pepper Abbey Road to the black album are heavily edited and studios were used to the max.

At the end of the day, the reason why people cheat with pitch correction and quantizing and use automated consoles is because it's a faster way to get the job done. Bands don't have 5 million dollar budgets anymore. The records need to get finished. Bands can't block out 6 months at Abbey Road to track and mix Magical Mystery Tour or Dark Side of the moon.

I do find it ironic that many of the bands that have recorded at Sound City have sampled. Nirvana, RageATM, Metallica , NIN, Slipknot, RATT and probably many more have samples all over their records. So it seems hypocritical. Not to mention none of the bands that are known for recording there have overly impressive vocals. No offense to the greats like Neil young and Tom Petty and the Late great Johnny Cash and Anthony kiedis; but none of them are exactly famous for perfect pitch or even anything remotely in tune.

It's noble they don't use pitch correction but it's not as if any one with any level of musical ear cannot tell these guys are a little sour. But their music is raw and honest so it warrants the sincerity of no vocal trickery. However they still used some techniques, chorus, doubling, ADT and probably varispeed and some other things. If they were doing pop music they wouldn't be able to get away with their off the cuff style.

I just don't think it matters what medium you record on, cheating goes on no matter what. And personally as long as the music translates well, it's perfectly ok to do whatever it takes to get the job done. I don't look at bands like Queen or the Beatles or Led negatively because they used studio trickery.

I remember overdubbing being looked at as a sort of copout. Who doesn't overdub? everyone does. I think the only successful "live" studio record to come out in the last 30 years was Amorica or one of those early 90s Crowes records. To me I don't see any difference between overdubs and pitch correction as far as the cheat factor goes. They are both unnatural and a crutch. But I also think both techniques can be used effectively and musically.

Before digital pitch correction lots of artists used guide vocals. They would have a studio singer come in lay down a guide
and they would try to double it. Or they would go line by line, or go word by word with a piano or synth guide. Is that cheating? If Eventides and Melodyne didn't exist artists would still use that technique along with comping, the only difference is, it would just take longer to get the tracks done. But they would get done and with studio trickery.
Very good points. Thanks.
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Old 3rd February 2013
  #60
Lives for gear
 
Kaoz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emitsweet ➑️


Oh that's right I get what the film is about, it's about the producer making some extra money.
Sorry but there is no spiritual message here unless you are naive.
Lol, I doubt Dave needs any extra money, he just bought a kick ass Neve console :P

Where did anyone say spiritual? Read back through the thread if you can't figure it out, plenty of people here have pointed it out already.
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