Quantcast
Sound City - movie directed by Dave Grohl - Page 10 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Sound City - movie directed by Dave Grohl
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #271
Lives for gear
 
lobsterinn's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro ➡️
You are probably right, but...

Nothing can make an impact outside of its time. It's timing plus content that create impact, and both are inseparably connected. I think FF would have ended as a footnote if Grohl hadn't have hung on to his vision through the early tough times, and held it together until his time arrived. The fact that he turned down Petty speaks volumes. How many other drummers would have done that?
?? Foo Fighters never had anything resembling "early tough times." Grohl joined an established punk band while he was still in high school, toured the world and made records, then joined Nirvana - who were already quite big in the indie world from the success of "Bleach."

After that ended...he recorded his own record, got together an all-star band and was signed to a major record label. That record sold very well, as have the subsequent ones.

I respect the guy and all, but he's not exactly a hard-luck story.
1
Share
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #272
Lives for gear
 
StillCrazy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
just saw

Just watched the film and loved it. Recording as a band is a hoot and is my favorite way to do it.

As far as anti-digital everyone is allowed their viewpoint. I really didn't see a very large amount of time with digital vrs analog. They both have good point and definite weaknesses.

I like to use the tools that give the best results and help me achieve my goals and it includes both analog and digital.

But in the end these were some great performances in a great studio.

I would love to record my material thru that Neve console.

But like Aerosmith said "Dream On".
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #273
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Sutton ➡️
Ain't it the truth. Overdub sessions used to be the backbone of the business. Long gone.
It is certainly the truth. It's probably hard for people who grew up in the DAW age to imagine, but EVERYTHING had to be done in a recording studio. Every vocal, every guitar, every keyboard, every tambourine OD. That was the bread and butter. When it became possible to do that stuff at home on a DAW, that was it for the vast majority of studios.
1
Share
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #274
Gear Guru
 
kennybro's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobsterinn ➡️
?? Foo Fighters never had anything resembling "early tough times." Grohl joined an established punk band while he was still in high school, toured the world and made records, then joined Nirvana - who were already quite big in the indie world from the success of "Bleach."

After that ended...he recorded his own record, got together an all-star band and was signed to a major record label. That record sold very well, as have the subsequent ones.

I respect the guy and all, but he's not exactly a hard-luck story.
Yeah. I'll agree that "tough times" was a bit overstated. Anyone who is trying to decide between Petty's drummer gig and their own band is not experiencing tough times by any stretch

I guess I meant to say that there was no guarantee that his personal career was going to get anywhere near Petty's, and he made that choice to go it on his own. Really, it easily could have fizzled on him. I recall hearing early FF songs on the radio, then not much for quite a while. Then explosion. But it might not have happened at all if fickle public didn't take the big bite.

I'm sure he was already financially set from Nirvana, and decided what the hell. Go for it. But you're right. Saying he had tough times, at least post Nirvana, is silly.
1
Share
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #275
Lives for gear
 
lobsterinn's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro ➡️

I'm sure he was already financially set from Nirvana, and decided what the hell. Go for it. But you're right. Saying he had tough times, at least post Nirvana, is silly.
It must be nice to be the most sought-after rock drummer in the world!

I 100% agree with you that timing is really key to any sort of commercial success. Nirvana had that in spades. Janes Addiction, the Pixies and other bigger "alternative" bands really primed the market for something heavy, poppy, and a little weird to take over. Nirvana also had the bonus of catchy melodies and a good looking singer.

Cool studios like Sound City where up-and-coming bands could get great sounds without blowing their budget have always been a huge part of the equation. Nowadays, due to technology and economics, a lot of those cool studios are in people's houses and other non-commercial spaces.. There are good and bad things about that.

Human collaboration is still what makes most memorable music. Having a great-sounding room or a classic console is just icing on the cake.
1
Share
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #276
Lives for gear
 
audiogeek's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobsterinn ➡️
?? Foo Fighters never had anything resembling "early tough times." Grohl joined an established punk band while he was still in high school, toured the world and made records, then joined Nirvana - who were already quite big in the indie world from the success of "Bleach."

After that ended...he recorded his own record, got together an all-star band and was signed to a major record label. That record sold very well, as have the subsequent ones.

I respect the guy and all, but he's not exactly a hard-luck story.
I know you guys have already cleared it up, but as an aside, historical events as recounted here by lobsterinn are not entirely accurate. Really, kennybro's comment was about the origins of Foo Fighters so most of this is off topic anyway, but I just wanted to point that out.

- joining 'an established punk band' in the late 80's means nothing.
- touring the world and making records in said punk band is probably more difficult and taxing a process than many of us here will ever know. You make it sound glamorous.
- calling Nirvana 'quite big' in 1990 because of their Bleach record is a pretty broad overstatement as well. In a few circles they were a buzzy band, along with a number of other bands, but again that means just about nothing.
- His "all star band" were two guys from Sunny Day Real Estate, hardly a household name.

...I guess the rest of your story from there pretty much gets it right.

I realize you're from Portlandia and everything, but the world really isn't/wasn't as small as it sounds in your post.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this further, just putting in a different perspective.

EDIT: Not sure why I felt compelled to chime in, I just respect what Grohl has done and he's never really had anything 'handed to him' from what I can tell.

Last edited by audiogeek; 7th February 2013 at 08:19 PM.. Reason: No offense intended...
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #277
Lives for gear
 
lobsterinn's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
@audiogeek: Fair enough. It is all a matter of perspective. Let's just say I've paid my dues as a musician...and Grohl's career seems pretty charmed from my POV. Also, artistic / cultural significance and commercial success rarely go hand-in-hand (as they did in Nirvana's case).

An attempt to steer this back to the subject: history is written by the winners, and this documentary clearly illustrates that point. Dave is a famous rich dude with famous rich friends who have the luxury of making music in an un-hurried way in lovely rooms with fantastic gear - and they KNOW they will have an audience for whatever they produce. The pressures and frustrations of most working musicians are rarely so kind. Even having the time to create that way is a luxury few of us have.

Granted, a documentary about struggling, but very talented, musicians and artists recording on a borrowed m-box in someone's basement wouldn't be quite so fun to watch!
1
Share
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #278
Lives for gear
 
Ephi82's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Perhaps this is totally unrealistic, but wouldnt it be cool if things like this movie, and our discussions about it brings about more demand for playing live in a great room, through some vibey gear?

I think many of us like the sound of records made this way and I know I would like to hear more.

I know that this is already going on, would be great to see more.....

Comment on Grohl and Tom Petty:

I simply cant imagine Dave being happy playing Tom's songs every night, especially the stuff he did with Jeff Lynne with the drum machines! Grohl's a very good sonqwriter but make no mistake, TPHB is Petty's band, end, stop. It wasnt a fit imo
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #279
Gear Guru
 
kennybro's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephi82 ➡️
Perhaps this is totally unrealistic, but wouldnt it be cool if things like this movie, and our discussions about it brings about more demand for playing live in a great room, through some vibey gear?

I think many of us like the sound of records made this way and I know I would like to hear more.
I kind of get the feeling that DG feels a personal mandate in this direction; not a bad mandate to have. Some negative comments were made about this, but in all fairness, it would be great if even a few young people saw a film like this, and decided to have a go of it with a real room instead of a bedroom desk and a laptop.
No million dollars needed, just some padding in the garage, a few 2x4's and sheet rock with a window between CR and a performance area that can accomodate a full band instead of tracking one thing at a time.

Like we did when we were kids. A small closet for vocals. Bigger one for a few drums, etc... We managed with a trip to the lumber yard, some elbow grease and the grace of our parents to park their car in the driveway while we followed our bliss. I know times are different, but it's not about profit and career at that point. It's about the music. That's one thing that ties young noobs with DG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephi82 ➡️
Comment on Grohl and Tom Petty:

I simply cant imagine Dave being happy playing Tom's songs every night, especially the stuff he did with Jeff Lynne with the drum machines! Grohl's a very good sonqwriter but make no mistake, TPHB is Petty's band, end, stop. It wasnt a fit imo
No, he wouldn't have been 100% happy for sure, and he was lucky to have enough confidence, and enough happening, that he felt comfortable passing it up. IME, few side musicians (basically what he was at that point) would pass a career op like that on personal pref aesthetic principals.
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #280
Lives for gear
 
EricF's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephi82 ➡️
Comment on Grohl and Tom Petty:

I simply cant imagine Dave being happy playing Tom's songs every night, especially the stuff he did with Jeff Lynne with the drum machines! Grohl's a very good sonqwriter but make no mistake, TPHB is Petty's band, end, stop. It wasnt a fit imo
I think it's easy to say that now, based on what he's done since the end of Nirvana, but we have the advantage of hindsight. Remember, Nirvana wasn't Grohl's band either. Thankfully, it seems like he made the right decision.
1
Share
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #281
Lives for gear
 
Hypnotic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephi82 ➡️
Perhaps this is totally unrealistic, but wouldnt it be cool if things like this movie, and our discussions about it brings about more demand for playing live in a great room, through some vibey gear?
I don't think that this thread will affect the demand much at all. What will change are people's tastes. People will get tired of the overly quantized sound and digital coldness of today's music. It's already happening in some circles. Then something different will stroll along out of nowhere and people will flock to it, just because it's different than what has been around for the last 10-15 years. It will seem like a revolution, and everyone will want to copy it. And almost like an afterthought, that album will have been recorded in a live room. Call me crazy, but I've studied enough history to understand the cyclical nature of society.
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #282
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnotic ➡️
Call me crazy, but I've studied enough history to understand the cyclical nature of society.
But what about cyborg societies? And no, sci-fi doesn't count.
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #283
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz ➡️
Very much looking forward to it.

The two full tracks I've heard are great, and the stuff from the movie got me even more excited.

Interestingly though, after watching the movie, my favorite track so far is the one with Stevie Nicks, which is odd considering TR and JH are two of my favorite rock musos.
Yeah man I'm (unexpectedly) excited about that Rick Springfield track!
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #284
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CB_Photo ➡️
I preordered it as soon as I finished the flik. The tune that got me hooked was when Reznor handed the bass to Homme ("I don't want to step on your toes or anything.") and the entire feel of the tune changed, and everyone else plugged into it and <presto> a song was born!
I can't wait for that one either. Being a fly on the wall watching that process was too cool.
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #285
Lives for gear
 
Hypnotic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gideon352 ➡️
But what about cyborg societies? And no, sci-fi doesn't count.
You mean like the ones that made the program we are living in?
Old 7th February 2013
  #286
Gear Nut
 
Chris Martins's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I just loved the Stevie Nicks song. Great mood and great vocals, as well as very good lyrics... The Springfield tune was very nice too, and I've pre-ordered the album too obviously.
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #287
Lives for gear
 
jmikeperkins's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I lust after gear as much as anyone on this forum. I am sad when any historic studio (major or minor) closes. I value a band playing in a room together as much as anyone. However, it is worth pointing out that the MOST IMPORTANT THING IS GREAT SONGS. We remember the great records recorded at that Sound City because of the songs, not the studio's room sound, not the gear they used, and not even the band playing together in one room. You can't polish a turd and no amount of gear, vibe, room sound or band sound can make a bad song good and it's hard to ruin a good song no matter where or how it was recorded. Maybe that is off topic, but it's worth remembering.
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #288
Gear Guru
 
kennybro's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmikeperkins ➡️
I lust after gear as much as anyone on this forum. I am sad when any historic studio (major or minor) closes. I value a band playing in a room together as much as anyone. However, it is worth pointing out that the MOST IMPORTANT THING IS GREAT SONGS. We remember the great records recorded at that Sound City because of the songs, not the studio's room sound, not the gear they used, and not even the band playing together in one room. You can't polish a turd and no amount of gear, vibe, room sound or band sound can make a bad song good and it's hard to ruin a good song no matter where or how it was recorded. Maybe that is off topic, but it's worth remembering.
Yeah, I'd say that's something of a pre-requisite before even thinking about recording. I've never known any professional to enter into a serious recording situation until they were fairly sure they had something at least decent to lay down. And sometimes, it turns out they were right; they actually did have a good one on the hook But I'd bet even many of the folks who recorded at SC in it's heyday laid down their share of clams that they thought were going to be classics.

Sometimes you just don't know until it's fleshed out. And it goes both ways. I've recorded what I thought were just mediocre songs, my own and others' compositions, that turned out much better than I had expected.

The nice thing about films such as this is that you can edit out all of the bad, and compile/compress decades of the good into a few hours
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #289
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnotic ➡️
You mean like the ones that made the program we are living in?
Haha! We need to unplug man!
1
Share
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #290
Lives for gear
 
tha]-[acksaw's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 79strat ➡️
Re: the Neve... I heard $120K from a friend who is in the biz
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatinumSamples ➡️
Closer to $150K
Is there any truth to any of this guys, or are we just spitballing here?

For some reason or another I would think it would be more.
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #291
Lives for gear
 
PlatinumSamples's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tha]-[acksaw ➡️
Is there any truth to any of this guys, or are we just spitballing here?

For some reason or another I would think it would be more.
Check out my previous posts.

Rail
1
Share
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #292
Lives for gear
 
Hypnotic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmikeperkins ➡️
I lust after gear as much as anyone on this forum. I am sad when any historic studio (major or minor) closes. I value a band playing in a room together as much as anyone. However, it is worth pointing out that the MOST IMPORTANT THING IS GREAT SONGS. We remember the great records recorded at that Sound City because of the songs, not the studio's room sound, not the gear they used, and not even the band playing together in one room. You can't polish a turd and no amount of gear, vibe, room sound or band sound can make a bad song good and it's hard to ruin a good song no matter where or how it was recorded. Maybe that is off topic, but it's worth remembering.
That may all be true, but you can also make a passable band sound epic, with the right engineer and gear.
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #293
Registered User
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnotic ➡️
That may all be true, but you can also make a passable band sound epic, with the right engineer and gear.
Yeah, I've seen that. Sounding epic doesn't mean the band IS epic.....that's the rub!
1
Share
Old 8th February 2013
  #294
Moderator
 
James Lugo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmikeperkins ➡️
I lust after gear as much as anyone on this forum. I am sad when any historic studio (major or minor) closes. I value a band playing in a room together as much as anyone. However, it is worth pointing out that the MOST IMPORTANT THING IS GREAT SONGS. We remember the great records recorded at that Sound City because of the songs, not the studio's room sound, not the gear they used, and not even the band playing together in one room. You can't polish a turd and no amount of gear, vibe, room sound or band sound can make a bad song good and it's hard to ruin a good song no matter where or how it was recorded. Maybe that is off topic, but it's worth remembering.
You know I hear this sentiment a lot especially when I lived in Nashville in the 90s. I don't really feel that way. I think everything matters. I have a ton of demos I have gotten over the decades in the biz, a lot of them have awesome songs but I don't continue to listen to them. The fact that everything is riding on the song can lose my interest after a few listens. That's just me. I want it all; great band, great singer, great record, great song and great promotion. Most of these timeless records came on the heals of massive label push and a [email protected]@t load of money. IMO it takes everything to make Back In Black, Rumors, DSTM, The Black Album etc.
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #295
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmikeperkins ➡️
I lust after gear as much as anyone on this forum. I am sad when any historic studio (major or minor) closes. I value a band playing in a room together as much as anyone. However, it is worth pointing out that the MOST IMPORTANT THING IS GREAT SONGS. We remember the great records recorded at that Sound City because of the songs, not the studio's room sound, not the gear they used, and not even the band playing together in one room. You can't polish a turd and no amount of gear, vibe, room sound or band sound can make a bad song good and it's hard to ruin a good song no matter where or how it was recorded. Maybe that is off topic, but it's worth remembering.
But, people never step back after making this point and ask themselves, WHY was the band given an opportunity to record in a great room? It wasn't because they wrote songs that suck or they couldn't play their instruments. Bands got into the studio with good help when they had proven themselves as good performers and/or writers. It provided a filter that is much missing in today's music scene.

Yeh, it's great that I can sit in my bedroom and write a song. But, other than the occasional rare exception, how many people in their bedrooms are writing great songs with any regularity, performing them very well, and that more than a handful of people will ever care about?

Anyone who is writing great songs regularly, and performing them very well, and who some sizeable number of people will ever care about, could have probably gotten a chance to get into the nice studio anyway back in the day, and with probably some actual investment. But of course very, very few people really write great songs and perform them really well, and the current situation really hasn't changed that.

Yeh, it creates the possibility that some housewife (or software geek like me) who will never get into music professionally may churn out a killer peformance of a really good song in her bedroom, but how often is it actually happening? And, in the rare cases it happens, how likely is it that anyone but a handful of people will ever even listen to it anyway? The very fact that so many people can try to do it makes it almost certain that the folks who actually manage to do it will never get above the noise floor.

Ultimately, all this power to the people digital technology stuff (on both the production and theft sides) has destroyed the opportunities for the rare folks who would be in the position to do it professionally and have a chance at success, without giving us a lot in return (where us is the music appreciating public, not the guy who wants to record songs in his bedroom.) The whole 'long tail' theory that was thrown around so much back in the early internet days, I just don't see how it's really come to what it claimed. The tail seems awfully thin, and the extent to which it erodes the body is pretty awful.
2
Share
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #296
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I agree, it takes everything.
I've worked on albums where a good song has been recorded in a less ideal situation - wrong vibe on the day, bad studio, wrong producer etc...
And it has been re-recorded a few months later in better circumstances and has very much benefitted from that more ideal recording.
Of course the song is king, and you can't keep a good song down, but you can't also discount recording a good song in the right room, with the right preparation, with the right musicians and producer collaborating.
1
Share
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #297
Gear Addict
 
TexasCat's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey ➡️
The very fact that so many people can try to do it makes it almost certain that the folks who actually manage to do it will never get above the noise floor.
Damn! This pretty much sums up the current state of the music business!
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #298
Lives for gear
 
Slikjmuzik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lugo ➡️
You know I hear this sentiment a lot especially when I lived in Nashville in the 90s. I don't really feel that way. I think everything matters. I have a ton of demos I have gotten over the decades in the biz, a lot of them have awesome songs but I don't continue to listen to them. The fact that everything is riding on the song can lose my interest after a few listens. That's just me. I want it all; great band, great singer, great record, great song and great promotion. Most of these timeless records came on the heals of massive label push and a [email protected]@t load of money. IMO it takes everything to make Back In Black, Rumors, DSTM, The Black Album etc.
I agree for the most part, although I have heard some crappy recording that still move me and I have heard crappy songs that still make me bob my head even though they're crappy songs...I still have no clue what they're trying to say in 'Mmm Bop'(Hanson), but that song was huge...really huge...groups of hot, rich, college girls were blasting it in their convertible BMW's on the way to the beach...vehicle packed...

So guys, this movie has inspired me to do something that I probably would have never just done or came up with had it not been for the whole discussion of practicing and playing your instrument well and don't use digital as a crutch, etc.... I say it like that because I feel Nick was right in the movie, it's enabled people who have no business at all, to at least try.

So I was thinking last night, I need to record a track that was done before the trickery came into play. I want track it with some of my better musician friends, not a single sample on the drums, no time aligning whatsoever, no crazy editing, etc.... Overdubs are ok, but defiinitly no short punch ins. In other words, keep it real, let them

I don't have tape here and it will be impossible to get all the musicians in at the same time, but I'm going to stress to eveyone about the point of the movie and that they need to come in and 'A-game' it with 1st or 2nd take performances.

My song of choice(I think I'm nuts): Def Leppard - Photograph

Yeah, always loved that song, I know Mutt polished it pretty good with what was available at the time, but I'm going to do my best to steer clear of too much digital trickery. I would have never thought to try this if it wasn't for the movie. I'm just inspired right now.

My goal: None, other than capture great performances and a great final mix doing things as close as possible to how they were done pre-digital with the gear you have. I can definitely say that this movie is what spauned it. I'm a regularly gigging singer down here in South Florida. I think I can pull off the song and all its harmonies, I know the perfect drummer, the perfect bass player, I already spoke to them, and I know the guitarist...have not spoken to him about this yet, but I'm pretty sure I can convince him to do it.

Sounds crazy I guess, that an itb guy is trying this, but as a $30-$40/hr studio, if I could get just 1 person to somewhat question that it wasn't done on a board, that's enough of a reward for me. Hell, if someone even just chimes in saying, 'hey, you should be charging more than $30-$40/hr', that's also plenty fine. I'm not setting out to prove anything, although it may sound it, I'm just truly inspired, it's a great song and I'm just praying that I can do it justice. I think I might even be hoping for someone to just hate on the idea and tell I can't do it...to fuel me even further!! I'm just truly inspired right now...

I think others should try this as well. Whether you have a board or are an itb(mostly, just have an analog 2buss chain), I think we should try to find musicians, tell them the rules, get them in and lay it all down...at the very least, it would be a good learning experience...

No using digital as a crutch for me on this...just play it right, mix and put yourself out there...right on Gearslutz...simple as that. I hope maybe a couple others try this as well...I'll be sure to post when it's done...maybe even start a new thread and call it...'Challege for Gearslutz' or something...
Old 8th February 2013
  #299
Lives for gear
 
IamJohnGalt's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I hate the idea and the song....now go do it!!!


Just kidding....I love the idea. Let me know if your drummer cant make it....Im in SoFlo as well

Sent from my SCH-I535
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #300
Lives for gear
 
Slikjmuzik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamJohnGalt ➡️
I hate the idea and the song....now go do it!!!


Just kidding....I love the idea. Let me know if your drummer cant make it....Im in SoFlo as well

Sent from my SCH-I535
Hell yeah, that's what I'm talking about!! PM me, lemme know where in SoFlo and let's exchange info...would be good to know more drummers that can play through a damn tune anyway!!
Closed

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 196 views: 39474
Avatar for DONNX
DONNX 25th July 2010
replies: 56 views: 5810
Avatar for soulstudios
soulstudios 25th January 2011
replies: 295 views: 72452
Avatar for anguswoodhead
anguswoodhead 26th March 2013
replies: 1296 views: 178658
Avatar for heraldo_jones
heraldo_jones 1st February 2016
Topic:

Forum Jump
Forum Jump