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why to add limiter to drum buss?
Old 18th January 2013
  #1
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why to add limiter to drum buss?

why to add limiter to drum buss? I was watchin Dave Pensados and some video from Dubspot, and they all put limiter to drum buss. What's idea behind it? What you want to get it loud as possible before mastering limiter?
Are you add limiters to all your busses?

For me it was always some minimal compression on drum buss to glue stuff, cytomic glue slowest attack, auto-relese, 2db gain reduction as a starting point
Old 18th January 2013
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loscolorados ➡️
why to add limiter to drum buss? I was watchin Dave Pensados and some video from Dubspot, and they all put limiter to drum buss. What's idea behind it? What you want to get it loud as possible before mastering limiter?
Are you add limiters to all your busses?

For me it was always some minimal compression on drum buss to glue stuff, cytomic glue slowest attack, auto-relese, 2db gain reduction as a starting point
To trap the odd peaks and even out the rhythm

Probably only knocking off a db or so on errant peaks but haven't seen the vid so couldn't tell you. Thats how i use a limiter on a drum buss and only if it needs it

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Old 18th January 2013
  #3
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uptheoctave's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Also only if it needs it.
I tend to put a limiter on the snare more than I do the drum bus.
Old 18th January 2013
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uptheoctave ➡️
Also only if it needs it.
I tend to put a limiter on the snare more than I do the drum bus.
Yeah im the same, its generally to trap the peak of the snare with only the odd snare here and there getting clamped

In house sometimes to trap the kick/snare combo if eqing fails

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Old 18th January 2013
  #5
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the thing is that they have some drum samples with no peaks
Old 18th January 2013
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loscolorados ➡️
the thing is that they have some drum samples with no peaks
Loudness maximisation perhaps?

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Old 18th January 2013
  #7
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Sonic Sweets's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I do this sometimes to fatten up the "hold" time of a drum.. So where it'd otherwise be decaying, it'll just sit up and keep booming. Doesn't seem to take away too much audible attack, but you can get some low end girth without dialing in more low.
Old 21st January 2013 | Show parent
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubmunkey ➡️
Loudness maximisation perhaps?

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what abouth limiter on master buss then?
Old 21st January 2013
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loscolorados ➡️
what abouth limiter on master buss then?
Loudness maximisation perhaps?

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Old 21st January 2013
  #10
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glenn Taylor's Avatar
 
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Yes, 1. either to catch peaks.
2. Make loudness max using a drum bus limiter
or 3. use as a parallel comp mix to hype up the drums.
Old 21st January 2013
  #11
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by loscolorados ➡️
why to add limiter to drum buss? I was watchin Dave Pensados and some video from Dubspot, and they all put limiter to drum buss. What's idea behind it? What you want to get it loud as possible before mastering limiter?
Are you add limiters to all your busses?

For me it was always some minimal compression on drum buss to glue stuff, cytomic glue slowest attack, auto-relese, 2db gain reduction as a starting point
What kind of limiters are we talking about ? Loudness maximizers or classic style limiters?!?
Old 22nd January 2013
  #12
Deleted 99dc753
Guest
I would not use a limiter on the two bus in mixing!!!
Old 22nd January 2013
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 99dc753 ➡️
I would not use a limiter on the two bus in mixing!!!
Me neither

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Old 22nd January 2013
  #14
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UnderTow's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Probably because light (digital) limiting is more transparent than compression. Also, as already mentioned, you can use it to bring up the body/ambience of the kick/snare.

A brickwall limiter also gives you much more control than a compressor. Nothing gets through. This can help to get louder mixes without stray peaks triggering excessive (audible) limiting during mastering.

PS: I'll use a limiter on anything, including vocals or guitars or pianos, if that is what is needed. There are some _very_ transparent limiters these days. (Yup, the Maximizer types but not necessarily from Waves).

Alistair
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #15
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Phil Humphreys's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 99dc753 ➡️
I would not use a limiter on the two bus in mixing!!!
I do. I'll turn it off before mixing down but I leave it on whilst mixing.

My theory is, it's going to be limited when it's mastered anyway so I want a better idea of what the final product is going sound like, it helps me out a lot with automation.

Sure you could say that in mastering it may get extra eq, compression, m/s, saturation, etc but those are artistic decisions that the mastering engineer is going to make. He's always going to stick a limiter / maximizer at the end.

As far as the drum bus goes - I agree with what everyone else has said - tame peaks (they may be samples, but they'll still get automated up and down), add some length, etc. I don't do it that often myself though. In my mix, I'll usually stick a limiter on the bass / vocals (just to tame peaks again). You can crush an out of control backing vocal and get it sounding great though IMO.
Old 22nd January 2013
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Humphreys ➡️
I do. I'll turn it off before mixing down but I leave it on whilst mixing.

My theory is, it's going to be limited when it's mastered anyway so I want a better idea of what the final product is going sound like, it helps me out a lot with automation.

Sure you could say that in mastering it may get extra eq, compression, m/s, saturation, etc but those are artistic decisions that the mastering engineer is going to make. He's always going to stick a limiter / maximizer at the end.

As far as the drum bus goes - I agree with what everyone else has said - tame peaks (they may be samples, but they'll still get automated up and down), add some length, etc. I don't do it that often myself though. In my mix, I'll usually stick a limiter on the bass / vocals (just to tame peaks again). You can crush an out of control backing vocal and get it sounding great though IMO.
This is a good idea i just find it quite hard to setup (i mix low)

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Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #17
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Phil Humphreys's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubmunkey ➡️
This is a good idea i just find it quite hard to setup (i mix low)

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I mix low too dub. Try this.

Set your tracks up, get some rough levels - stick a limiter then a meter on the 2-buss, get your meter hitting whatever level suits your genre (I do rock and metal mainly so usually I aim for around -10 RMS) with the limiter. You'll probably need to adjust your instrument levels again.

Once your pretty happy with your balance and RMS level, get rid of the meter and leave the limiter on, stick it on the last insert and forget about it until it's time to mix down when you can turn it off. You can still turn your monitor level up or down, probably in a safer fashion (depending on your setup) as your main buss out from your daw will definitely not clip as long as that limiter is on.
Old 22nd January 2013
  #18
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Bob Ross's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by loscolorados ➡️
why to add limiter to drum buss?
Why add a drum buss?
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #19
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Phil Humphreys's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross ➡️
Why add a drum buss?
May be a terminology thing. When people say buss, groups or outs these days I mostly consider them to be the same thing working in a DAW, although there are differences on how I use them.
Old 22nd January 2013
  #20
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3 Reviews written
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Humphreys ➡️
I do. I'll turn it off before mixing down but I leave it on whilst mixing.

My theory is, it's going to be limited when it's mastered anyway so I want a better idea of what the final product is going sound like, it helps me out a lot with automation.

Sure you could say that in mastering it may get extra eq, compression, m/s, saturation, etc but those are artistic decisions that the mastering engineer is going to make. He's always going to stick a limiter / maximizer at the end.
Absolutely
I do the same thing.

It makes sense. People can get pretty dogmatic and bent out of shape over stuff like this (especially on GS), but you shouldn't be afraid of bus processing, it's just another tool.

The folks around here that say "never do this" or "never do that" probably only have sex in the missionary position too. I don't trust them, personally.......
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #21
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Bob Ross's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Humphreys ➡️
May be a terminology thing. When people say buss, groups or outs these days I mostly consider them to be the same thing working in a DAW, although there are differences on how I use them.
Yeah, it was a joke... I was equating the I Must Put A Limiter On The Drum Buss! school of audio engineering with the I Must Use A Drum Buss! school... they're both techniques that I see young engineers using more because Somebody Famous™ does it, not because they necessarily need to or even understand why they might (or might not) want to.

"When I was a kid we didn't even have group busses...and we liked it!"

/grumpyoldmanrant
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #22
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Phil Humphreys's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross ➡️
Yeah, it was a joke... I was equating the I Must Put A Limiter On The Drum Buss! school of audio engineering with the I Must Use A Drum Buss! school... they're both techniques that I see young engineers using more because Somebody Famous™ does it, not because they necessarily need to or even understand why they might (or might not) want to.

"When I was a kid we didn't even have group busses...and we liked it!"

/grumpyoldmanrant
Haha, point well taken (and agreed upon). It is rather annoying when people copy things but don't understand what or why they're copying in the first place.

/approachingmiddleagetooquicklyrant
Old 22nd January 2013 | Show parent
  #23
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Phil Humphreys's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundrick ➡️
Absolutely
I do the same thing.

It makes sense. People can get pretty dogmatic and bent out of shape over stuff like this (especially on GS), but you shouldn't be afraid of bus processing, it's just another tool.

The folks around here that say "never do this" or "never do that" probably only have sex in the missionary position too. I don't trust them, personally.......
Haha! Thanks for that mental image! There are some things I will never do (like clipping the **** out of tracks through poor gain staging) but when it comes to the mix - if it works and sounds good - go with it

By the way, just had a look at your studio build thread - sweet looking place, nice job
Old 22nd January 2013
  #24
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RightOnRome's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross ➡️
Yeah, it was a joke... I was equating the I Must Put A Limiter On The Drum Buss! school of audio engineering with the I Must Use A Drum Buss! school... they're both techniques that I see young engineers using more because Somebody Famous™ does it, not because they necessarily need to or even understand why they might (or might not) want to.

"When I was a kid we didn't even have group busses...and we liked it!"

/grumpyoldmanrant
+1
Old 24th January 2013 | Show parent
  #25
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
If you have lots of mics on the drums, an aggressive compressor on the drum buss can reduce the leakage (and associated phase problems) and make the kit sound tighter. Compressors on individual components of the kit can have the opposite effect.
Old 24th January 2013
  #26
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Ain't Nobody's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Can't speak for his use, but I often limit drum buss. Why should the whole track have to hiccup during mastering due to an errant peak on the drums? Better to affect fewer elements. General philosophy of not ever letting anything need to be fixed in mastering if it can instead be isolated and fixed in the mix before the egg is scrambled.
Old 3rd February 2013 | Show parent
  #27
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciozzi ➡️
What kind of limiters are we talking about ? Loudness maximizers or classic style limiters?!?
L2
Old 3rd February 2013
  #28
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scorpix74's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn ➡️
If you have lots of mics on the drums, an aggressive compressor on the drum buss can reduce the leakage (and associated phase problems) and make the kit sound tighter. Compressors on individual components of the kit can have the opposite effect.
Can you give more explainations?

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Old 12th February 2013 | Show parent
  #29
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn
If you have lots of mics on the drums, an aggressive compressor on the drum buss can reduce the leakage (and associated phase problems) and make the kit sound tighter. Compressors on individual components of the kit can have the opposite effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpix74 ➡️
Can you give more explainations?
Sure. Let's say you have 10 mics on the drums. A snare hit is "heard" loudly and on-axis by the snare mic and the 2 overheads. It's quieter in the other 7 mics, but it's still 7 off-axis, phase-incoherent signals you don't want. If a buss compressor reacts to that snare hit by reducing the overall gain, say, 5dB, the difference is most noticeable in the low-level stuff (the other 7 mics) which will subjectively seem a lot less audible than before. Try it and see.

On the other hand, in the same 10-mic scenario if you have a compressor on only the snare mic, with no buss compression, and every snare hit is reduced 5dB, what you're really doing (arithmetically) is turning the other 9 mics up 5dB. In the real world, people smash snares all the time for the sonic benefits, but I just wanted to call attention to the math.
Old 13th February 2013
  #30
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scorpix74's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Makes sense, I've to experiment to be sure...
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