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Mics won't run through pedals
Old 22nd September 2012
  #1
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Mics won't run through pedals

I've been trying to run both my Shure Green Bullet and SM 57 (not simultaneously) through two pedals (DeltaLab Tube Overdrive and Boss '65 Deluxe Reverb; nothing crazy) and into my amp. I also tried running that chain into my four-track. Neither works. On their own the mics, pedals, amp and 4-track all work properly. I picked up a cheap mic pre-amp, thinking it was an impedance issue, but that has done nothing to better the situation. Any ideas?
Old 22nd September 2012
  #2
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The cables all seem to work fine as well.
Old 22nd September 2012
  #3
Old 22nd September 2012
  #4
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I got one of these: ART Tube MP Studio Mic Preamp | Musician's Friend

Not as nice as the one you linked, but the same idea, and still nothing.
Old 22nd September 2012
  #5
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Do the microphones require phantom power?
Old 22nd September 2012
  #6
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Shure Americas | A85F Line Matching Transformer



Impedance problem.

If you want to use mic(s) require phantom power, then use something like this between the mic and the A85F (this would not be a problem with the Green Bullet and SM57 as they are dynamic mics and don't require phantom power).

Rolls Corporation | PB23 Phantom Power Adapter
Old 22nd September 2012
  #7
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🎧 10 years
mic>preamp>preamp line out> *reamping device* >pedal>DI>line out to line in on 4 track

Impedance problem is correct.

The line level output of the preamp will be too hot. The output of the mic will be too low. So the mic needs a preamp and then that would benefit from a reamping device for the pedals input- which wants to see a guitar pick up signal, not a line leve signal- thats what a reamping device does.

Without the reamping device, you should still be getting a signal though... It just won't sound very good. And even with a reamping device, it might not sound very good (as a matter of taste)- depends on the pedals themselves.

But the chain above would be how to properly drive the mic to the pedal to the 4 track. On the 4 track be sure to use the line input.
Old 22nd September 2012
  #8
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I'm not sure how you're setting up right now, but the above is true: mic cable to preamp, 1/4" cable from preamp to pedals, 1/4" from pedals to input of the recorder. You'd have to turn the volume of the mic pre WAY down, and still it'd tend to be bright and harsh, so a device to match in output impedance of the preamp to the input of the pedals would be good...
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbob1 ➑️
I'm not sure how you're setting up right now, but the above is true: mic cable to preamp, 1/4" cable from preamp to pedals, 1/4" from pedals to input of the recorder. You'd have to turn the volume of the mic pre WAY down, and still it'd tend to be bright and harsh, so a device to match in output impedance of the preamp to the input of the pedals would be good...
Don't forget it would be best to go from the pedal to a DI before going back to the 4 track UNLESS it has a high z input!
Old 22nd September 2012
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years


I put one of these between my 545 and pedals and it works just fine. The problem it solves shouldn't come up with your green bullet though. If it is an impedance issue, that's the solution.

Any music store should have something like that. Just make sure it has some lead cable. Many of them are just XLR on one end and TS on the other of one housing.

9 in Dual Impedance Line Matching Transformer Cable - XLR Female to 1/4" Male - ComputerCableStore.com
Old 24th September 2012
  #11
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Thank you for all the help.

Unfortunately, I still seem to be experiencing the same problem. I have a low-to-high transformer (Audio-Technica- guessing brand doesn't make a difference), and I tried a simpler setup with that:

Mic<Mic Cable<Transformer<Pedal<Instrument Cable<Amp.

Still got the same lack of results. My amp has four inputs: low gain, hi gain, 100 milivolt low-level line in and 3 volt high-level line in. Tried 'em all.

Keep in mind I didn't use the pre-amp this time. And neither mic requires phantom power.
Old 24th September 2012
  #12
Old 24th September 2012
  #13
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessestriff
My amp has four inputs: low gain, hi gain, 100 milivolt low-level line in and 3 volt high-level line in. Tried 'em all.
Test your equipment.
Does the amp work with a guitar plugged in?
Does the mic work with a preamp?
Do you have a cable tester?
Are your cables wired properly and all connections secure?

1) Plug a guitar into the amp input - does it work?
2) Mic -> cable -> transformer -> cable -> same input of Amp - does it work?
3) Is there a problem with the transformer?
Old 24th September 2012
  #14
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CompEq,

Tried what you suggested and everything works normally. Cables, transformer, amp, everything. The mic works with the preamp when no pedals are involved, just mic<preamp<cable<amp. I do not have a cable tester.
Old 25th September 2012
  #15
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+1 Pigtronix keymaster!!

-e
Old 25th September 2012
  #16
Deleted f25ebd2
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Are you using TRS cables? That might be a source of incompatibility as pedals normally accept TS cables. Try pulling the cable from the mic to the first pedal out and inserting it ~1/2 way then see if you get a signal
Old 25th September 2012
  #17
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It should work fine. Check your connections/batteries. If it will pass a guitar signal a green bullet should also do the same.
Old 25th September 2012
  #18
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The Green Bullet I have is a modern one, and it has a volume knob on the underneath, so that would be the first thing to check! It also terminates in a mono jack, as it is designed to be plugged directly into an amp. So I would try just the Green Bullet into an amp first ...

The SM57 is a different beast, and will require a mic' pre and the solutions that are being talked about above ...
Old 25th September 2012
  #19
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So you're saying a green bullet cannot be run through pedals?
Old 25th September 2012
  #20
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Actually, the modern Green Bullet is designed to go direct into anything with a 100k or higher impedance input. So, directly into a pedal, and directly out of the pedals into a line input on your interface should be all you need. That said, the Keymaster is a killer piece of gear for interfacing pedals/keys/mics or just about anything else!
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessestriff ➑️
Thank you for all the help.

Unfortunately, I still seem to be experiencing the same problem. I have a low-to-high transformer (Audio-Technica- guessing brand doesn't make a difference), and I tried a simpler setup with that:
I also use the same AT (CP8201) Low to high, mic impedance matching transformer (250-50k ohms) for mics like the sm57 and also use the Green Bullet direct, and, run these regularly through guitar pedals or Sansamp PSA-1's, etc, to many different amps.

If neither the 57+AT or GB solo isn't passing signal through to your hi-z pedals > amps, but they all work on their own, I would re-check every connection/cable/power supply. That's an odd one!

Good luck!
Old 25th September 2012
  #22
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by drbob1
Actually, the modern Green Bullet is designed to go direct into anything with a 100k or higher impedance input.
Thanks! Didn't know that.

Shure Americas | 520DX Green Bullet

per Shure:
Quote:
An attached cable with a standard 1/4-inch plug allows the microphone to be connected to a high-impedance device.
jessestriff, Have you tried the above chain using the SM57?

(SM57 -> transformer -> amp)

if that works, try (SM57 -> transformer -> pedal -> amp)

I'm really not sure why that wouldn't be working for you unless there's a problem with one of the components or with one of the cables. The transformer should be XLR in and 1/4" TS out, from there to the amp should all be 1/4" TS.
Old 25th September 2012
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e3p0 ➑️
+1 Pigtronix keymaster!!

-e
I was just looking at the keymaster yesterday. It looks really cool.
Old 26th September 2012
  #24
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The keymaster would be sweet but it's a bit out of my price range right now.

I'm starting to think it might be an issue with the cables. They are both TS, but I'm now noticing the same problem when I plug a guitar or bass into the pedals. I've tried three different pedals with a guitar & bass, and when plugged into the amp with the pedal off I get a regular signal. Once I turn any of the pedals on there is nothing, they just light up. This strikes me as strange because I still get a signal when the pedals are turned off. I've tried switching the order of the cables also, and the same problem arises.
Old 26th September 2012
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessestriff
I'm starting to think it might be an issue with the cables.
if you don't already have one, then get a multimeter.
Old 26th September 2012 | Show parent
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessestriff ➑️
The keymaster would be sweet but it's a bit out of my price range right now.

I'm starting to think it might be an issue with the cables. They are both TS, but I'm now noticing the same problem when I plug a guitar or bass into the pedals. I've tried three different pedals with a guitar & bass, and when plugged into the amp with the pedal off I get a regular signal. Once I turn any of the pedals on there is nothing, they just light up. This strikes me as strange because I still get a signal when the pedals are turned off. I've tried switching the order of the cables also, and the same problem arises.
You're probably all over this, but when I plug into a pedal, get sound when bypassed and nothing in spite of the pedal lighting up, I often find I've plugged the guitar into the output jack. Since there's no standard for which side is "in" and which is "out" it's easy to do. Maybe double check?
Old 26th September 2012
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by drbob1 ➑️
You're probably all over this, but when I plug into a pedal, get sound when bypassed and nothing in spite of the pedal lighting up, I often find I've plugged the guitar into the output jack. Since there's no standard for which side is "in" and which is "out" it's easy to do. Maybe double check?
First thing that crossed my mind, too...

Sent from my GT-S5367
Old 28th September 2012
  #28
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You nailed it drbob1.

Feeling pretty dumb, but relieved (sigh)....
Old 28th September 2012
  #29
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Now if we could only convince the manus to all build stuff with in on the right and out on the left. Of course, when I solder a stomp box, I get all confused and sometimes build them backwards (because the in/out is reversed when it's upside down)!
Old 12th September 2014
  #30
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🎧 5 years
reamping

Hi - I'm trying to run a dynamic mic through a digitech express loop pedal (then later a boomerang III) and I'm confused about the difference between having something that re amps as opposed to buying one of the cables that allows connection between the balanced XLR output from my mic to the unbalanced 1/4" TS line of my looper?

Thank you!

Deanne
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