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Marketing Yourself as a Producer Vs. PRODUCER
Old 21st September 2012
  #1
Deleted 4d73b7c
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Marketing Yourself as a Producer Vs. PRODUCER

So as many of you know that term producer has gone through phases and the definition has changed. My question is this. How does one promote themselves as a true music producer if the majority only understands the producer who makes beats?

I can make beats but thats not what I do. I've been able to get a few projects underway with clients who are open and willing to learn. But for the majority of people they don't know someone to guide them, plan and develop. They don't want an extra songwriter and changing up what they were once used to.
Old 21st September 2012
  #2
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Slikjmuzik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 4d73b7c
So as many of you know that term producer has gone through phases and the definition has changed. My question is this. How does one promote themselves as a true music producer if the majority only understands the producer who makes beats?

I can make beats but thats not what I do. I've been able to get a few projects underway with clients who are open and willing to learn. But for the majority of people they don't know someone to guide them, plan and develop. They don't want an extra songwriter and changing up what they were once used to.
I would start first and foremost by creating a website that is always up and running and looks incredibly professional that explains exactly what you do. You may be able to exploit the very idea that you've already expressed, that fact that you don't just do beats. Elaborate on that idea and make it a bit of a bio. Then include a page that shows the ideas clients have brought in, like a before and after, then show what the song turned into. Make you have nicely weighted business cards that clearly show the website. The website name must also be easy to remember. It'll be hard bringing in business at first, but once love for you starts to spread, people will spit your name out and you will start to get calls to produce records, even if it's just for unsigned artists whose dads are rich and overprotective. You have to start somewhere, but this is a good way to build that I've seen a number of people makes waves by doing. How you handle each step along the way which will or will not allow you to branch out and grow is completely up to your personality, the results you achieve and how you interact with people.

Good luck.

Last edited by Gearbot; 30th April 2020 at 05:00 PM..
Old 21st September 2012
  #3
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🎧 10 years
Hey Julian, I'm not trying to be a dick, but your website link bounces for me....
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #4
Deleted 4d73b7c
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 4d73b7c
I would start first and foremost by creating a website that is always up and running and looks incredibly professional that explains exactly what you do. You may be able to exploit the very idea that you've already expressed, that fact that you don't just do beats. Elaborate on that idea and make it a bit of a bio. Then include a page that shows the ideas clients have brought in, like a before and after, then show what the song turned into. Make you have nicely weighted business cards that clearly show the website. The website name must also be easy to remember. It'll be hard bringing in business at first, but once love for you starts to spread, people will spit your name out and you will start to get calls to produce records, even if it's just for unsigned artists whose dads are rich and overprotective. You have to start somewhere, but this is a good way to build that I've seen a number of people makes waves by doing. How you handle each step along the way which will or will not allow you to branch out and grow is completely up to your personality, the results you achieve and how you interact with people.

Good luck.
Thanks for that tip. I've been planning to put up my own site(s) but it had to be pushed back. The producer is essentially the director. To many folks want to rush and throw together some crap mixtape that maybe lasts a few months and then burns off. Then they repeat over and over.

Last edited by Gearbot; 30th April 2020 at 05:00 PM..
Old 21st September 2012
  #5
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Most are only PRO-DOO-SAHS.
Thats right, pro-doo-sa.
Old 21st September 2012
  #6
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🎧 15 years
The answer is good luck to you. Producers are a label construct. They needed someone to make sure it all came in on budget and on time with a marketable single...and make all those decisions about session players and engineers...and assure them there will be something at the end of their investment they could sell.

Artists have always fought "production"...and many/most, as soon as they got sales clout enough, either ditched them or demanded producers who would basically handle the tech and budget while leaving them to do the "co production"--which meant making musical decisions.

So, now, with labels in flames? It's hard enough to convince an artist they'd be better served having someone else mix their material. They are under the impression they'll sit with headphones sipping a frap at Starbucks with their MacBook and come out with something worthwhile--cause "the material is all that matters anyway" (artiste rationalization). Good luck convincing them they not only need someone to help with the engineering, but also guide them musically.

I'm not saying they DON'T...I'm just saying good luck convincing them of that.
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann ➡️
Good luck convincing them they not only need someone to help with the engineering, but also guide them musically.

I'm not saying they DON'T...I'm just saying good luck convincing them of that.
sad but true

In the traditional view, labels hired Producers to make sure the artists don't piss away their budget with 50 piece orchestras and 20 minute space jams.

Producers earn their keep by saving the label money, keeping the product "commercial" and within budget.


Quote:
Artists have always fought "production"...and many/most, as soon as they got sales clout enough, either ditched them or demanded producers who would basically handle the tech and budget while leaving them to do the "co production"--which meant making musical decisions.
the only exception to this are those occasional artists who have had a few albums out, and are sick of 'runner-up' status - people who want to Break Out. Bands who are tired of having only a 'cult' following and are looking for mass-market success.

They then will willingly submit themselves to a producer who knows how to get them to rein in their self-indulgent artist impulses in favor of broader commercial appeal.

Someone like Bruce Dickinson - a guy who puts his pants on 'one leg at a time', but once he has his pants on, he makes hit records.




Though it is an open chicken/egg question if the producer himself or the band's willingness to compromise with commercial considerations is the primary factor if such projects succeed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 4d73b7c
But for the majority of people they don't know someone to guide them, plan and develop. They don't want an extra songwriter and changing up what they were once used to.

You could much more easily insist that a band to do it "your way" if YOU ARE PAYING. Find the talent, sit them down, explain the deal, sign a contract, bring them into your studio and record them. Then shop them around after you are done.

Risk you own money. That is Another "old school" definition of a "Producer"! Of course these days even that is an uphill run, because offering a band time in your studio is looked at as: "so what, we have a studio, too"
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #8
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Slikjmuzik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcb4t2 ➡️
Hey Julian, I'm not trying to be a dick, but your website link bounces for me....
No worries, you're not. Please accept my apologies, kinda updating it a bit...just bought a house...studio's moving, new pics, new address, new everything...I know it kinda sounds stupid giving advice on a website when mine isn't up right now either...it'll be back up as soon as I have new pictures to go along with the text on the site...
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #9
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phillysoulman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
Most are only PRO-DOO-SAHS.
Thats right, pro-doo-sa.
Or even a "Pa Doo Sah"
Old 22nd September 2012
  #10
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 4d73b7c ➡️
So as many of you know that term producer has gone through phases and the definition has changed. My question is this. How does one promote themselves as a true music producer if the majority only understands the producer who makes beats.
A person who makes beats is NOT a producer. Online they claim to be. And they may tell people such, but they are not a producer. Industrywise, nope, not a producer. Even in rap and hip hop.

In fact 99.9% of people who call themselves "producers" are not producers as they have actually "produced" nothing.

Sadly MOST producers, music and movies, are simply people who have contributed money to the project- ie funded the production or simply give it a stamp of approval and lend their name for weight.

If you want to be a producer, a real one, you need to produce something successful and get a production credit. Then people will want you to help them succeed. The trick is getting the first successful credit.

The most successful producers Ive met, don't know much compared to the people actually doing the work...

But thats key, a producer doesn't necessarily do ANYTHING in regards to music. They can, but absolutely don't have to.

Dr. Dre has production credits where all he did was walk by the tracking/studio, stick his head in the door, nod, give a thumbs up, and walk away. Not that he doesn't make great music, but in those cases he did LITERALLY nothing. 100% true.

Producer is one of the most BS terms in entertainment... And in movies its FAR worse than music...
Old 24th September 2012
  #11
Deleted 4d73b7c
Guest
Okay some based on the new posts it sounds like its a dead end. How do you put a production credit out if people don't even know the difference???? The track says "produced by X" and that is all. Many assume that by being the producer made the music or the beat.

Of course then it was the producer who sometimes put up his money to fund a project and thus having significant control over what the artists/band releases as it directly effects revenue. Now as stated earlier, artists just sit back, write up some lines on a stolen mp3 and then claim it as a hit.

Directing a project or even one record from beginning to end is amazing. You can offer advice on melody on vocals and music. You can decide if the hook fits well and how fans will react. So much you can do.

If you say you want to produce someones record then they only know the term as music.
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 4d73b7c

If you say you want to produce someones record then they only know the term as music.
as already mentioned, you need to overcome the Catch-22 of having a "track record", which may mean taking a 'speculative' risk

are such people, who don't even get what a producer can do for them, the most promising avenue for you to pursue?

Last edited by Gearbot; 30th April 2020 at 05:00 PM..
Old 24th September 2012
  #13
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Joe Haze's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I just lead with the term "producer" and let clients know that includes everything from booking outside studio time to using my "producer rig".

I explain my vision for the album...
Old 25th September 2012
  #14
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🎧 10 years
A producer should be

A) A musician first
B) Business man second

At least in todays business climate.



They should ............

Get in the way when it counts and stay out of the way when it counts.

Try to get the best out of what the band already has.

Be both an inspiration and a pain in the ass when necessary.

Be a mediator when necessary.

Try to keep the project on budget.

Show up for rehearsals and really get to know the music and what it's about.

Inspire confidence in the artist.

Understand the point of view of the band and the company funding the project if that is the case.

If you cannot do all of the above and also deal with all kinds of personalities then you shouldn't be a producer.

Do something else.
Old 25th September 2012
  #15
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machoboy's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
As a layman who is not a producer, I'm not even really sure what a producer does.

I know what a mixing engineer/mastering engineer/agent/promoter/etc. does. I would be more likely to seek out someone who listed their specializations and went by those titles than a "producer", which often seems more like a prestige title for people who are already at the top and can just throw money at projects.

Just using myself as an "outside reference" (self-published musician).
Old 25th September 2012 | Show parent
  #16
Deleted 4d73b7c
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
as already mentioned, you need to overcome the Catch-22 of having a "track record", which may mean taking a 'speculative' risk

are such people, who don't even get what a producer can do for them, the most promising avenue for you to pursue?
No there not but there there the majority it seems. If this role reversal could come back I think many people would quit as they just don't have that type of skill
Old 25th September 2012
  #17
Deleted 4d73b7c
Guest
Take twitter for insance. You have 140characters to basically identify who and what you do. Then you have an option to share a website or some form of link. Saying music producer is stereotypical.

Of course as stated earlier it can be somewhat averted if a website was in place to share specific characteristics.

Some people will say "what have you produced?" While others ask "where are the beats?"
Old 26th September 2012 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 4d73b7c ➡️
Saying music producer is stereotypical.
maybe you could call yourself something else

I was considering Recording Sherpa, but that's incorrect because although some Sherpas do work as mountaineering guides, Sherpas are a nationality, not an occupation.

but the idea was someone who helps you to 'climb the mountain'

Quote:
Some people will say "what have you produced?"
It's a fair question. You have to play them something that you produced that sounds AMAZING. Whether it was a hit or not, they have to listen to it, be blown away, and say: "wow, can you make us sound like that?".

Otherwise, why should they even consider this strange, seemingly unnecessary "service" from Ancient Times you are saying you are offering?

Quote:
While others ask "where are the beats?"
well, where ARE the beats?
Old 26th September 2012
  #19
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I personally distinguish it as producer/engineer (director and ears) and music producer (composer/beat maker) though I realize music producer can be generalized as a whole, I feel it's a better way to distinguish between the two types...
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #20
Deleted 4d73b7c
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
maybe you could call yourself something else

I was considering Recording Sherpa, but that's incorrect because although some Sherpas do work as mountaineering guides, Sherpas are a nationality, not an occupation.

but the idea was someone who helps you to 'climb the mountain'



It's a fair question. You have to play them something that you produced that sounds AMAZING. Whether it was a hit or not, they have to listen to it, be blown away, and say: "wow, can you make us sound like that?".

Otherwise, why should they even consider this strange, seemingly unnecessary "service" from Ancient Times you are saying you are offering?



well, where ARE the beats?
While thats all great and all what could one possibly label himself as? Producer is the standard and people around the world know the term to have different definitions. Film producer, TV producer, etc.

Some ask but most dont. How would you briefly convey that what you offer is more than just music/beats? How do you say that you can develop them as an artist/musician and that essentially working together can yield much better results. Do you say you've gotten records placed on radio and film? Do you tell them everything you've ever accomplished? If so thats to much and thats why people have reels and discographys.
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #21
Deleted 4d73b7c
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralPStudios ➡️
I personally distinguish it as producer/engineer (director and ears) and music producer (composer/beat maker) though I realize music producer can be generalized as a whole, I feel it's a better way to distinguish between the two types...
Maybe that would work. Instead of saying "producer" say music director. Or maybe even use executive producer even though finances won't be "split" between the two parties in that sense.
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #22
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 4d73b7c ➡️
While thats all great and all what could one possibly label himself as? Producer is the standard and people around the world know the term to have different definitions. Film producer, TV producer, etc. .
you are the one saying that the people you are talking to DON'T understand what a "Producer" is. I am suggesting that for these people, you may have to dumb it down: "Studio Coach"

I don't know, the true role of a producer is as varied as the people who work as producers and the people who hire them.

Quote:
How would you briefly convey that what you offer is more than just music/beats? How do you say that you can develop them as an artist/musician and that essentially working together can yield much better results.
IMO, if you need to "convey" something which is a "standard around the world", you are dealing with morons. On top of everything else, morons tend to not have any money. Instead of figuring out what you have to do to "reach" a bunch of morons, maybe marketing your services to a better class of customers is what you need to be doing.
Old 27th September 2012
  #23
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ianbryn11's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 4d73b7c
While thats all great and all what could one possibly label himself as? Producer is the standard and people around the world know the term to have different definitions. Film producer, TV producer, etc.
how about calling yourself a "record producer"? I think that gets the point across fairly well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 4d73b7c
Some ask but most dont. How would you briefly convey that what you offer is more than just music/beats? How do you say that you can develop them as an artist/musician and that essentially working together can yield much better results. Do you say you've gotten records placed on radio and film? Do you tell them everything you've ever accomplished? If so thats to much and thats why people have reels and discographys.
trying to be a producer for a band who doesn't want one in an uphill battle. Offer your services as a producer or engineer, and see what they want. Only the bands that want u as a producer are going to be receptive to what u say. And those projects will turn out better, and be far less frustrating than vice versa.

With some bands it has to be a gradual process. Record them as engineer, slowly gain their confidence, then move up to a more involved role in making the record.

Some bands are more open to it from the start. It really depends. Gotta read the situation and act accordingly.

Last edited by Gearbot; 30th April 2020 at 05:01 PM..
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #24
Deleted 4d73b7c
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
you are the one saying that the people you are talking to DON'T understand what a "Producer" is. I am suggesting that for these people, you may have to dumb it down: "Studio Coach"

I don't know, the true role of a producer is as varied as the people who work as producers and the people who hire them.



IMO, if you need to "convey" something which is a "standard around the world", you are dealing with morons. On top of everything else, morons tend to not have any money. Instead of figuring out what you have to do to "reach" a bunch of morons, maybe marketing your services to a better class of customers is what you need to be doing.
I agree as most artists today are all DIY because they can buy PT at guitar center and DL or steal free beats from people. I'm positive there are more people that wish they had some form of guidance its just difficult to find them. People want to put out 10projects a yr vs. 1 or do big projects. Time is an issue with most.

But your right I just need to take some time to see what is the best way to market myself. I think "Artist development" would help in my marketing scheme.
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #25
Deleted 4d73b7c
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianbryn11 ➡️
how about calling yourself a "record producer"? I think that gets the point across fairly well.



trying to be a producer for a band who doesn't want one in an uphill battle. Offer your services as a producer or engineer, and see what they want. Only the bands that want u as a producer are going to be receptive to what u say. And those projects will turn out better, and be far less frustrating than vice versa.

With some bands it has to be a gradual process. Record them as engineer, slowly gain their confidence, then move up to a more involved role in making the record.

Some bands are more open to it from the start. It really depends. Gotta read the situation and act accordingly.
You know that is a GREAT idea! Record producer lol so simple but effective. also in the previous post I'll include artist and song development. When people read that they can choose whether or not they want to work with me on that level.
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by targa2 ➡️
A producer should be

A) A musician first
B) Business man second

At least in todays business climate.



They should ............

Get in the way when it counts and stay out of the way when it counts.

Try to get the best out of what the band already has.

Be both an inspiration and a pain in the ass when necessary.

Be a mediator when necessary.

Try to keep the project on budget.

Show up for rehearsals and really get to know the music and what it's about.

Inspire confidence in the artist.

Understand the point of view of the band and the company funding the project if that is the case.

If you cannot do all of the above and also deal with all kinds of personalities then you shouldn't be a producer.

Do something else.
Nice fantasy world you live in...

Life SHOULD be fair.

Personality SHOULD count as much as looks.

Hard work SHOULD always pay off.

All children SHOULD have parents that love them.

All people in jail SHOULD be guilty.

the list goes on and on.

But in reality, your post means nothing.
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