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Summing or a cheaper mixer?
Old 24th September 2012
  #31
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Optical Lens's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Interesting input!

I came a cross a site called "VintageMaker" Summing Mixer Neumann v475 Vintage Maker - Vintage Design djpaulmusic paul taylor

This looks intriguing, and more affordable than a 2bus LT if I went for summing.

I am not sure if I even need OTB summing, I just got GAS!!!
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #32
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MrTechno's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds ➑️
i really need to try some analogue summing. would something like the mackie onyx 1640I make much difference from ITB?
Not sure, but must admit the first time I heard Analog summing i I was not convinced. Then as you continue to listen you pick up on differences, it can sometimes be very subtle. These are the 3 most dominant things i noticed which changed in an analog mix vs ITB

Wider
A certain space.
And low end seemed more defined.

I think it really starts to matter on large track counts also, bigger the difference on large track counts with a mix mixed OTB.

In the end of the day though i can't say the ITB mix was bad in any way just different I guess. My preference the OTB Mix.
Old 26th September 2012
  #33
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🎧 5 years
So I am still thinking about this.

Thinking about a mackie 24 8 vs a Summer from VintageMaker (Lawo) for electronic music.

What do you think?
Old 26th September 2012
  #34
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5 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
You can build an inexpensive summing mixer. It'll lose a little volume but that's easy to make up with decent outboard gear afterward. I'd suggest:

1. Home built 16 channel summing mixer
2. Decent buss compressor: could use an ART Pro VLA
3. Decent Buss EQ: could use the DBX 242

Total investment, less than $600 and it should give you a lot more sound and flexibility than you currently have.
Old 26th September 2012
  #35
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🎧 5 years
1: Thanks for the tip But I do not want to build anything. I am not experienced in building such stuff, and it will take a lot of time
It is only cheap if your time is worthless!

Thanks for the tips on the comp and EQ

I am leaning against the mackie since I get level control, EQ and sends, subgroups etc "for free". And a used one goes for half the price of a summing box. Since I have not heard any sound samples from the VintageMaker, I am not sure what the differences between ITB, Mackie and that would be.

I know the sound of the Mackie though, just listen to any Simon Posford track which all sound GREAT (it's mixing skills I know)
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #36
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers ➑️
i think its more than that. i can hear a difference with just 2 buses summed on my mixer compared with ITB. but like i said earlier, it's something you're more likely to notice when mixing your own music, that you know intimately. i fully buy into the idea that analogue summing gives a different result to ITB summing. also not all desks are created equal and i remember the first time i went from a low end desk to high end, it was a major ear opener, just a stereo track on 2 channels with no eq sounded huge, a real difference, just on an open channel...

As far as i believe, (and this is conjecture as i'm no expert) it has nothing to do with EQ or preamps and more about crosstalk and phase. read this, which is one person's way to try and quantify these subtleties and make software to emulate them. it sounds like i'm pluggin airwindows again, lols, anyway read this, i found it interesteting
Airwindows Audio Unit Plugins
Well, I thank you for it anyway- I don't have any advertising budget so I depend completely on this sort of thing happening

That said (hope it's OK saying thank you!)...

I agree with MrTechno completely. I haven't found any 'buss tone simulator', including my own (BussColors3 and Desk3 are the tone makers), that does that particular space-expanding thing that analog summing does.

You should be aware, though, that there are desks out there which are designed with such extreme clarity and lack of interactivity among circuits, that they don't sound analog like you expect anymore- they sound a particularly nice flavor of 'DAW', on the clinical side (but without digital hash).

And some of the records I've always flipped out about the most, have had obvious problems with the console not sounding very clean.

So far the best I've been able to work out is that it's down to output impedances of individual channels varying as they hit the buss (that's what Console was about- doing that ITB). It does mean that using good converters is important, but the funny thing is, it might be like the super-analog-DAWlike desks, in that super-uber-converters might give less 2-buss depth because they're too immune to interactivity.

I guess it should be possible to design a converter that is extra susceptible to this effect, and then we'd have a custom analog desk/summing that has exaggerated depth and spatiality (might sound kind of early 70s though) (not that THAT is a bad thing!)
Old 27th September 2012
  #37
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🎧 5 years
I can get a mackie 24-8 for maybe 800$ But it's a HUGE desk.
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #38
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jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
sorry if this was asked already, but how many channels are you looking to Sum ? most summing boxes are 8 or 16 channels ... i have the Ati8mx2's and sometimes use 16 channels to sum ...

cheers john
Old 27th September 2012
  #39
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Optical Lens's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Hi!

As many as possible... I already got a nice quote on VintageMaker Lawo-summer which has 36 inputs. It's cheaper than a dangerous (and possibly warmer)

On the other hand I could perhaps get the mackie I was talking about, which has 24 channels and I can plug all my outboard effects into it, including my synths!

The Motu 24 I/O is already on it's way... So the mackie would be a perfect match! Too bad I will have problems putting it anywhere.


.... OR maybe I should just continue mixing ITB.
Old 27th September 2012
  #40
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Get a nice interface and also some good preamps for that money. Maybe controller as well. Just my two cent.

Nothing wrong with analog summing but as a stated by a previous poster. A large chunk of money for a very small imorovement in your situation.

Hope it works out for the best!
Old 2nd October 2012
  #41
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🎧 5 years
Thanks, jrakarl. I don't get the mackie bashing either.
Old 2nd October 2012 | Show parent
  #42
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Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTechno ➑️
Not sure, but must admit the first time I heard Analog summing i I was not convinced.
You have no idea how old that sentence can make a man feel......
Old 2nd October 2012 | Show parent
  #43
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MrTechno's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 ➑️
You have no idea how old that sentence can make a man feel......

Just curious are you using any summing mixers?
Old 2nd October 2012
  #44
Gear Maniac
 
BushmasterM4's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I own the Mackie 1640i and using it as a summing mixer work quite well. Is it a huge difference than a complete "in the box" mix using the Mackie ? Depends on how good your ears are. But the Mackie 1640i is very nice sounding. Started with the 1640 model in 2006 and a year ago went to the 1640i. Not one problem with hardware or the drivers.
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