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How to get a "fat", low, dry snare ('70s style)
Old 29th November 2017
  #31
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
tune the bottom head down too. the relationship between the two heads makes a big difference.
Old 29th November 2017
  #32
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by combfilter ➡️
Not sure if this belongs to the Drums sub-forum...anyway:
I'm remixing a ballad and I'd like to try a totally different approach, even re-recording drums and other parts if necessary.
I'd aim for a '70s drum sound, like, say, on The Eagles' "I Can't Tell You Why".
Bill Szymczyk had his own way of going about drums, for sure. The Eagles tended to record in deadish rooms and Henley wasn't a hard hitter -- both are probably factors.
Old 29th November 2017 | Show parent
  #33
Lives for gear
 
zinzin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom ➡️
A great trick is to take a spare drumhead, flip it upside down, and lay it over top of the installed head. Instant fat sound. It is great because you can do this very quickly, so it's awesome for live shows where you can get 2 very different snare sounds with one drum.

thats cool, will try, thanks!
Old 29th November 2017 | Show parent
  #34
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinzin ➡️
seems strange to combine it with a tom hit, but i will try it!

thanks for all the answers, you saved me some money. was about to buy some 14x7 snare.
The original ICTYW video, filmed at Criteria, also shows Henley simultaneously hitting the snare/2nd high tom for the entire song... even though they're just mimicking the track in the video.
Old 30th November 2017
  #35
Get yo self a 60’s or 70’s Ludwig supraphonic in good condition with working muffler. Use coated top head and tune it well. Shouldn’t need any wallets or tape. Moon gels come in handy to dry it up if needed.
Old 30th November 2017 | Show parent
  #36
Gear Maniac
 
No matter what drum you use... try an evans genera hd dry head. You put that thing on and tune it low and I wouldnt be surprised if you dont feel the need to experiment with any additional muffling. It really is a dry head that gives a decent "whack" and dies almost immediately. Especially with everything tuned low.... its gonna fit the bill pretty well

Also flip the snare over and loosen the 4 lugs(reso side) that are adjacent to the snare wires/snare bed. You want those 4 lugs looser than the rest of the lugs on the bottom head. Wont hurt a thing if it starts to wrinkle around those edges. This will dry up the wire activity and will also greatly reduce if not completely eliminate any sympathetic vibrating of the wires from the toms and such.

Lastly a lot of those dry 70's drum sounds were recorded in a dead room. If you have a room thats been treated to be as dry and dead as possible... track the kit there.

If not.... find a clever solution to hang blankets around the kit. Suspend them from the ceiling or tie some ropes around the room and drape the blankets from them. Basically just make a little cubicle of blankets to surround the kit. It doesnt have to be pretty. Oh and if the kit is on a hard surface... put a rug under it also

That will eliminate enough room sound to get you in the right direction and give you that dry, up front, crispy sort of drum sounds from that era.

You can always add reverb to taste after the fact if you feel like you need to add some space back

And really the last thing this time(i know I already said that lol)... if the drum still has too much spank... get another set of snare wires handy you dont mind destroying and cut every other wire out. So if it were a 20 strand set of wires... now it would be 10. This makes it less harsh and more round. Or at least it presents that way due to not having as much snare wire activity

Probably not necessary to perform that step but its there if you need it
Old 30th November 2017
  #37
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I got a pretty low snare sound on this track YouTube (snare starts around 38 second mark)
As others mentioned, keep the lugs loose....I think I finger tightened the lugs and then gave a half turn with the wrench....I used the standard DW reverse dot head that came with the drum but I'd go for a thick coated head.....A Remo plastic tone ring really helped deaden and reduce ring....I didn't do it in that youtube video because I thought it sounded low enough but if I wanted more bottom end, I would have duplicated the snare track and tried the sound toys pitch plugin to get a little more thickness and a lower punch and mixed that in with the original snare....There are plenty of ways to alter your sound these days without buying a new snare or hitting the tom at the same time....moon
Old 30th November 2017
  #38
Lives for gear
 
zinzin's Avatar
ok guys, stop the talks – let's get to business ;-)

i tried to try every everything i could. haven't bought evans heads yet.
tuned the snare low, as low as i could. it's an old ludwig 14x6 chrome snare.
no mixing, just the raw recordings. room is now very dry.
kick=rode nt2a (w/little EQ and comp) > tl audio 5051
snare=sm57 > aml ez1073
oh= nohype audio lrm-2 (glyn johns) > rme fireface pres


here's what it sounds like:

w/2nd head: i put a spare head over the snare.

w/socks: socks don't suck! attached socks with gaffer tape to the snare. works great to damped the snare.

w/socks+scd: sm57 plus an oktava012 scd

w/socks+scd+env: i quickly applied an envelope filter to the scd snare mic

w/socks+screwtens: here i loosened the snare wire tension screw a bit

i also loosened the lugs around the snarewire on the resohead side.

pics:

Attached Files

w:2nd head.wav (2.59 MB, 1063 views)

w:socks.wav (2.59 MB, 1091 views)

w:socks+scd.wav (1.60 MB, 1009 views)

w:socks+scd+env.wav (2.00 MB, 938 views)

w:socks+screwtens.wav (1.97 MB, 1079 views)


Last edited by zinzin; 30th November 2017 at 10:42 AM..
Old 30th November 2017
  #39
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
zinzin - great clips. Diggin' the sock tone for sure, with the looser snares for me as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrovertigo ➡️
tune the bottom head down too. the relationship between the two heads makes a big difference.
Sorry to go off on a small tangent, but why don't drummers (at least 90% of the ones I deal with) ever think about the bottom head. I've watched drummers try to tune for 20+ min without ever touching the reso head...
Old 30th November 2017
  #40
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Sock + SDC is the money for me. That's the fattest lowest one I'm hearing. Cool sock trick!
Old 30th November 2017 | Show parent
  #41
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KamandaSD ➡️
zinzin - great clips. Diggin' the sock tone for sure, with the looser snares for me as well.



Sorry to go off on a small tangent, but why don't drummers (at least 90% of the ones I deal with) ever think about the bottom head. I've watched drummers try to tune for 20+ min without ever touching the reso head...
Hah you aint kidding. To me ... the bottom head has more influence on how the snare acts than the top
Old 30th November 2017 | Show parent
  #42
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bambamboom's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andychamp ➡️
@ andychamp - Have you used this much? It's a cool idea, but I am interested in how much impact doing that would have on the longevity of the head and the possibility of broken heads.
Old 30th November 2017 | Show parent
  #43
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andychamp's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom ➡️
@ andychamp - Have you used this much? It's a cool idea, but I am interested in how much impact doing that would have on the longevity of the head and the possibility of broken heads.
I‘ve used this occasionally and found it really works well, with no adverse effect on the head.
Apparently, some are concerned that it might warp the drum if left like this over a long time, but I usually retune all lugs to +/- equal tension after the session an so far haven‘t had this kind of problem, either.
BTW, the best effect isn‘t always with that exact number of turns, but it‘s a good starting point.
Old 30th November 2017 | Show parent
  #44
Lives for gear
 
zinzin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom ➡️
@ andychamp - Have you used this much? It's a cool idea, but I am interested in how much impact doing that would have on the longevity of the head and the possibility of broken heads.
i am using this all the time and used it on the clips above. never had any problems. its a super quick and neat tuning method!
Old 1st December 2017 | Show parent
  #45
Gear Addict
 
Nick Stedman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman ➡️
top head tuned low/loose

snares loose.

damping on the head with tissue and tape (and or a 'wallet')

don't hit the rim!
This. Magazine or newspaper as well tuned low. It won't always sound just like how it does in this video I found. Just experiment. A little tighter a little looser.

The Evans Genera Dry snare head is really good head too that helps. Practically no ringing with this head without having to dampen unless you just want to for the tone (which in this case you would)

Old 1st December 2017 | Show parent
  #46
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinzin ➡️
ok guys, stop the talks – let's get to business ;-)

i tried to try every everything i could. haven't bought evans heads yet.
tuned the snare low, as low as i could. it's an old ludwig 14x6 chrome snare.
no mixing, just the raw recordings. room is now very dry.
kick=rode nt2a (w/little EQ and comp) > tl audio 5051
snare=sm57 > aml ez1073
oh= nohype audio lrm-2 (glyn johns) > rme fireface pres


here's what it sounds like:

w/2nd head: i put a spare head over the snare.

w/socks: socks don't suck! attached socks with gaffer tape to the snare. works great to damped the snare.

w/socks+scd: sm57 plus an oktava012 scd

w/socks+scd+env: i quickly applied an envelope filter to the scd snare mic

w/socks+screwtens: here i loosened the snare wire tension screw a bit

i also loosened the lugs around the snarewire on the resohead side.

pics:

Have you tried the condenser under the snare and phase reversed? All the examples would work in my opinion but lack top end to my taste. A bit of under snare could work wonders.
Old 1st December 2017 | Show parent
  #47
Lives for gear
 
zinzin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pw2005 ➡️
Have you tried the condenser under the snare and phase reversed? All the examples would work in my opinion but lack top end to my taste. A bit of under snare could work wonders.
yeah, that would add more bite. will do it.

but it won't get me that "plastic" sound the eagles snare has ... is that really the 2nd tom hit combined with the snare. still have to record that. did sound promising when i simply hit both so i didnt record it yet.
also tried a pitchshifter on the scd snare, tuned it down a bit but it didnt sound good.
so how do i get that "plastic" eagles snare?
Old 1st December 2017
  #48
Lives for gear
 
zinzin's Avatar
ok, i "think" i am getting closer. did a quick mix on headphones, so certainly to much bass, but it's getting there.
i took the files "w/socks+scd". gated the scd snare track. scooped out 600-1000Hz: maybe too much? reminder: did it on headphones. what'ya guys think?
Attached Files

OH TEST 2 MIXED.wav (1.94 MB, 879 views)

Old 1st December 2017
  #49
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
The kick is consistently like a 16th triplet early in the playing compared to the snare/hat. I like the sound you got.
Old 1st December 2017 | Show parent
  #50
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
The kick is consistently like a 16th triplet early in the playing compared to the snare/hat. I like the sound you got.
I'm no human grid, but his time sounds fine to me.
Old 1st December 2017
  #51
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I guess I am a human grid then... ha.
Old 1st December 2017 | Show parent
  #52
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx ➡️
I guess I am a human grid then... ha.
You'd have to be, to determine that the kick is early. Normal humans would call the kick spot on and the rest of it slightly late. :-)
Old 1st December 2017
  #53
Lives for gear
 
zinzin's Avatar
i've played it to my heartbeat, not to a grid :-) and i am no drummer.
Old 4th December 2017
  #54
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Sounding good! I do hear the kick a little early as well.
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