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Realtime pitch shift and formant altering!
Old 17th September 2012
  #1
Gear Head
 
SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Realtime pitch shift and formant altering!

Hi everyone im trying to make my vocals sound like a boys real time so if i want to perform in front of my school I could do it. Can anyone recommend good ways to go about doing this? I know its got to do something with formant and pitch but I also want it high quality. Is there any free ways? or do I have to go out and buy some kind of pedal like the voice box from electro harmonix which i dont know is capable of what im talking about.



Thanks for everyones time, im starting to love it here :3
Old 17th September 2012
  #2
Gear Head
 
SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Oh and can you hook up pedals onto a lap top?
Old 17th September 2012
  #3
Gear Head
 
SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
anybody :(? /sniffsniff
Old 17th September 2012
  #4
Here for the gear
 
toddbarriage's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Reaper's ReaPitch plugin is capable of this I'm pretty sure! You can download most of Reaper's plugins as VSTs as well.

EDIT: what you'd want to do is run your mic into your laptop, use ReaPitch in monitor mode, and line out to the sound board. That should do the trick. I'm sure someone else could explain it a little more clearly
Old 17th September 2012
  #5
Gear Head
 
SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
oh awesome im gonna check it out! :3
Old 17th September 2012
  #6
Gear Head
 
SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
reaper seems so confusing! i never imagined this subject would be so in depth ive been looking up how to do is for like 7 hours! I wish someone can help me on what to do.:/
Old 17th September 2012
  #7
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahKim ➑️
reaper seems so confusing! i never imagined this subject would be so in depth ive been looking up how to do is for like 7 hours! I wish someone can help me on what to do.:/
No short cuts in music production unfortunately...you kind of have to learn the basics then build from there. Otherwise you'll constantly be on here asking "and how do I do this....and this..and this" etc!
Old 17th September 2012
  #8
Gear Head
 
SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
yah how do i learn the basics without a paying a whopping amount of money! :(
Old 17th September 2012
  #9
Gear Head
 
Jeff Ling's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
There are several things "the big boys" do to get great sounding vocals. Pitch correction is just one of them and may not be necessary if you can sing in tune. Compression is used to regulate dynamics which can compensate for lack of proper mic technique. Reverb and / or delay give the illusion of space but may not be needed if there are enough natural reflections in the room you're singing in. So you might first want to identify which problem you most want to correct. Live pitch correction that works well and is also cheap may be hard to come by. Compression and reverb / delay are much easier.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Head
 
SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Ling ➑️
There are several things "the big boys" do to get great sounding vocals. Pitch correction is just one of them and may not be necessary if you can sing in tune. Compression is used to regulate dynamics which can compensate for lack of proper mic technique. Reverb and / or delay give the illusion of space but may not be needed if there are enough natural reflections in the room you're singing in. So you might first want to identify which problem you most want to correct. Live pitch correction that works well and is also cheap may be hard to come by. Compression and reverb / delay are much easier.

oh im sorry i guess i made the post confusing I meant pitch shifting not pitch correcting with timbre and formant adjustment . I wanna sing the male parts of certain songs and my choir friends want to use it the opposite way.
Old 17th September 2012
  #11
Gear Head
 
SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
actually can a mixer do this?
Old 17th September 2012
  #12
Gear Head
 
SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Oh also it seems like there's virtual instruments that do this pedals and mixers i don't know what else would fulfill the role i need but something that's high quality but cheap is preferred
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #13
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahKim ➑️
yah how do i learn the basics without a paying a whopping amount of money! :(
A subscription to a magazine like sound on sound is a good start - whilst I don't agree with all of the advice they give, the basics are usually solid, and they do good special features on things like producing a specific genre of music that can give you a headstart.

I remember when I started learning music production seriously in 98 I probably followed about 5-10% of it...these days, I find myself disagreeing with some of what they say...but it's still useful reading.

If you're not interested in the reviews etc, you can get an eSub which gives you access to all the back issues, tutorials etc online.

On top of that, there's any number of books - specifically aimed at different DAWs, or different production styles, etc etc.

Youtube has uncountable video production guides, although you do have to be aware that some of them are produced by guys with very little clue about what they're doing...anything that produces a particular effect you can generally judge by how good the end result is, but any "general recording" guide presented by one guy in front of a laptop in his lounge is likely to be a bit amateur at best!

Ken Lewis, (hangs out in the hip-hop forum) has produced a very good series of videos where he takes you through the mix for a whole song.

Any number of resources really...the point is that whilst there's nothing to stop you starting a new thread for every little question you have, it's a very slow way of learning, and eventually all the experienced guys helping you out will get tired of it, leaving you with the guys who are little more experienced than yourself.

Searching this forum is also a good idea, before starting new threads...
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #14
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahKim ➑️
Oh also it seems like there's virtual instruments that do this pedals and mixers i don't know what else would fulfill the role i need but something that's high quality but cheap is preferred
One comment on your original question - there's not an easy, cheap way to do this "live".

Chances are one of the TC Helicon vocal processing boxes might be able to do this - but they're not cheap, and you'd be buying a lot of functionality you don't need (although as a singer it might be something you're interested in).

Possibly the cheapest option is to use a laptop running the latest "autotune live" plugin.

Part of the problem will come - if you're performing in a large venue, the live sound is all but buried, so your own voice won't come through. In a school hall, you'll always have the live voice - so it'll sound like a girl and a sort-of guy singing along.

As an aesthetic, won't it look a bit fake a girl singing a line in a guy's voice? kind of like in a comedy sketch or song where a guy's miming to a girl's recorded voice..funny, but is that the effect you want?
Old 18th September 2012
  #15
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
The TC Helicon boxes certainly do this in real time (and a lot more). I have the VoiceLive2 boxes, but they have cheaper pedal versions too.

I thought your question was very clear and you know exactly what you want to do: a little formant shifting will get your voice sounding more like a boy. You don't want pitch shifting, because that would make you out of tune or create a harmony part. Just a little formant shifting. Often this is called "gender bending".

The EXH pedals are worth looking at too.

To do this cheaply isn't really going to happen. You could use software on a laptop, but then you would need a good interface for your mic and probably a DI box to get the interface output level back down to mic level. The latency might be more than you would want too.

There will be freeware plugins that can do formant shifting - you don't need full blown pitch shifting. Google for "gender bending vst" or something.

A little bit goes a long way.

Not quite the same - but it might be even more fun - have a look at the EHX Iron Lung pedal. This is a Vocoder pedal, which also has gender bending. This will require you to also input an signal to be shaped - usually a guitar or synth, but it could be anything at all - use your imagination. This would probably have to be used with a backing track or sequencer (or a very well rehearsed musician) to make it happen, but you could probably make a much more spectacular effect with this ...

Have fun.
Old 18th September 2012
  #16
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Clone Ensemble

Also worth a look - if you just want simple formant shifting use a 100% wet unison voice and bend to taste.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Head
 
SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
One comment on your original question - there's not an easy, cheap way to do this "live".

Chances are one of the TC Helicon vocal processing boxes might be able to do this - but they're not cheap, and you'd be buying a lot of functionality you don't need (although as a singer it might be something you're interested in).

Possibly the cheapest option is to use a laptop running the latest "autotune live" plugin.

Part of the problem will come - if you're performing in a large venue, the live sound is all but buried, so your own voice won't come through. In a school hall, you'll always have the live voice - so it'll sound like a girl and a sort-of guy singing along.

As an aesthetic, won't it look a bit fake a girl singing a line in a guy's voice? kind of like in a comedy sketch or song where a guy's miming to a girl's recorded voice..funny, but is that the effect you want?
Its not comedic I think it sounds more hip I also like having the option of covering any part because I love singing!
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Head
 
SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi ➑️
The TC Helicon boxes certainly do this in real time (and a lot more). I have the VoiceLive2 boxes, but they have cheaper pedal versions too.

I thought your question was very clear and you know exactly what you want to do: a little formant shifting will get your voice sounding more like a boy. You don't want pitch shifting, because that would make you out of tune or create a harmony part. Just a little formant shifting. Often this is called "gender bending".

The EXH pedals are worth looking at too.

To do this cheaply isn't really going to happen. You could use software on a laptop, but then you would need a good interface for your mic and probably a DI box to get the interface output level back down to mic level. The latency might be more than you would want too.

There will be freeware plugins that can do formant shifting - you don't need full blown pitch shifting. Google for "gender bending vst" or something.

A little bit goes a long way.

Not quite the same - but it might be even more fun - have a look at the EHX Iron Lung pedal. This is a Vocoder pedal, which also has gender bending. This will require you to also input an signal to be shaped - usually a guitar or synth, but it could be anything at all - use your imagination. This would probably have to be used with a backing track or sequencer (or a very well rehearsed musician) to make it happen, but you could probably make a much more spectacular effect with this ...

Have fun.
thanks for the response I am looking into some of the things you said but I already knew about those pedals. The problem is that it is 200 bucks :/!
Old 18th September 2012
  #19
Gear Head
 
SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Oh also I dont mind spending that 200 bucks on a pedal as long as you think that's the best quality. Its just means 200 less bucks in my pocket, which i could have bought some cute clothes with :( its gonna be cold soon!
Old 18th September 2012
  #20
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahKim ➑️
Its not comedic I think it sounds more hip I also like having the option of covering any part because I love singing!
2 viewpoints to everything!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi ➑️
The TC Helicon boxes certainly do this in real time (and a lot more). I have the VoiceLive2 boxes, but they have cheaper pedal versions too.
I had a look at the website before answering, but I couldn't see that any of the pedal versions did this...you'd know better than me on the voicelive of course.
Old 18th September 2012
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
100% Agree, since Eventide kind of gave up of formant corrective pitch shifting Digitech and the TC Helicon Vocal & VoiceLive range of Pitch Shift Formant correctors actually work quite well, and their made for live use.....I'd check one out for sure, another is the TC Quintet etc used they go around 200-225$ maybe more - some research perhaps as I don't use one personally, though I've heard them, the Gender Bender stuff is quite good - big Vox to little girl, Big Female Diva to Soul Singer etc.
Old 18th September 2012
  #22
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Why do you want to sound like a boy anyway? To honest - these tricks are not ideal for live performance, and certainly not if you aren't a very confident singer to start with. They tend to complicate the performance and sound a bit artificial. Not ideal if you are trying to build up confidence on stage.

Learn how to sing with confidence and how to work a mic. The boys won't want to hear a fake boy sing - they would rather hear your real voice. You can do plenty of tricks with your real voice than you can with electronic processing ... and that will impress an audience far more.

The TC pedals are probably the best - not sure where Psycho monkey was looking - even the cheap C1 has a large "gender" knob that is hard to miss ...

TC-Helicon | VoiceTone C1 - HardTune & Correction

But seriously, if you want to get into electronic processed vocals, I would recommend you go for more FX than just tune or formant ...

The VoiceLive2 is extremely powerful but not cheap.

Many times, no FX is more powerful than using FX. It's really easy to get into cheesy karaoke territory really fast.

A lot of FX are very overused and cliche' ...

But - if you are going to go there, I say go for really wild and strange stuff. Which is why I suggest a Vocoder might be more fun. I consider this an extension of synth playing - so probably not ideal for a lead singer, but fun for backing vocals or special FX that are just used for spice.

But get your vocal and stagecraft skills up to speed first - don't let the toys get in the way. Find out what makes YOU unique and work that first.
Old 18th September 2012
  #23
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Sound Like a Girl then?
Your sound.......do what you like....not what anyone else thinks!
Old 18th September 2012
  #24
Gear Head
 
SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I want a vocoder too just how crystal castles did that but I also want an option to sing any part I want. I'm basically trying to get equipment to be able to tackle a broad range of things so i can do alot of things .
Old 18th September 2012
  #25
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Dude, I think you need to go and have a serious demo & play with a showroom that has a ton of equipment from Eventide to TC helicon, to Melodyne to Orange Vocoder, that is the only real way "YOU" will find out what suits your style 100%. People can espouse ideas right/left and centre though only you will know if it's working or sounding right and if then in the ball park!

Good luck to you and your songs - at least you love what you do & have a passion for it so 3/4 of the battle is over!
Cheers
TLB.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Head
 
SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastByte ➑️
Dude, I think you need to go and have a serious demo & play with a showroom that has a ton of equipment from Eventide to TC helicon, to Melodyne to Orange Vocoder, that is the only real way "YOU" will find out what suits your style 100%. People can espouse ideas right/left and centre though only you will know if it's working or sounding right and if then in the ball park!

Good luck to you and your songs - at least you love what you do & have a passion for it so 3/4 of the battle is over!
Cheers
TLB.
thanks for the cheer
Old 9th August 2013
  #27
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Realtime Pitch Correct in Cubase 7.04/7.05

Since Cubase 7.04, the plugin latency of 1764 samples of the VST3 "Pitch Correct" plugin has droped to zero. So Cubase Artist 7, Cubase 7 and Cubase Elements 7 now come with a decent no-latency pitch correct plugin on board. Before spending 249$ for Autotune Live I'd rather get Cubase Artist and enjoy a great sequencer at the same time.
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