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Help me solve this mixing equation
Old 16th September 2012
  #1
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🎧 5 years
Help me solve this mixing equation

OK. So I just got an idea of a mixing technique to test in the studio later today. It's a bit tricky though, because first I need to solve an equation. heh

This is my configuration:

A) One (1) input stereo track, name: 'Electric piano', pan: 50% L, stereo: 50%

B) One (1) fx channel, name: 'Left - right depth', fx applied: delay pan 50% R
Rationale: Create space perception of instrument in direction left right

C) One (1) fx channel, name: 'Front - rear depth', fx applied: X
Rationale: Create space perception of instrument in direction front rear

Please help me identify X. What is the effect to use and how should it be set up? My theory is that it should be an EQ with high and low freq rolloffs followed by a reverb with early reflection panned C...

Thanks!
Old 16th September 2012
  #2
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Yes = No. Unless No = Yes.

That should do it ...
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi ➑️
Yes = No. Unless No = Yes.

That should do it ...
OK. Let me see.. Right is left and front is rear. Right is front and left is rear. Rear is here and coffee there. Help!
Old 16th September 2012
  #4
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You mix in a way that no-one else ever has done. You're either a genius or just a bit weird.

Stop thinking, start mixing. It's not maths!
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #5
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Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️

Stop thinking, start mixing. It's not maths!
Indeed. Or do your thinking and then switch off and mix. Like golf. You don't feck with your swing while doing a round, but in between, on the driving range. Think of mixing as learning to play an instrument. Once you have internalised enough mechanisms of bending sounds around the actual 'playing' happens. And for a mix to end up sounding exciting you will have to be able to do it quickly without thinking much. This won't happen effectively while you're still having to think too hard about every decision. Just keep going. Fluidity arrives sneakily and gradually.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
You mix in a way that no-one else ever has done. You're either a genius or just a bit weird.

Stop thinking, start mixing. It's not maths!
Hi there Psycho Monkey, please note this mixing approach is far from unique. Actually I found out about the delay thing from Pensado's place which I've tested a lot and it really works great, regarding the EQ + early reflection thing I found out about that from a SOS article. Based on my earlier experience I concluded this is likely a working concept, therefore a theory was born. But I'm now looking for more perspective on this from more engineers.

I no longer approach mixing 100% from a musical point of view, I did in the past until I came to realise it's much more optimal to have a 50% technical approach to it. Important, by that I don't mean to create fixed rules of everything that defragments the whole opportunity landscape. I have now gone from a much over simplified approach to a more colorful approach, these days I'm more or less collecting hardware and software and I really encourage others to do the same...

So these days my mixes are also to a great degree technical in nature. Currently I'm optimizing my technical approach to creating perceived depth, because at this point I'm much better at creating width than depth. So that's the background, I don't see anything "weird" about that at all, from the point of view that this would be some confused way of thinking that doesn't make sense. This is just some pretty well known concepts... but now I'm looking for techniques that can further optimize the depth of my mixes...
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #7
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothVibe ➑️
Hi there Psycho Monkey, please note this mixing approach is far from unique. Actually I found out about the delay thing from Pensado's place which I've tested a lot and it really works great, regarding the EQ + early reflection thing I found out about that from a SOS article. Based on my earlier experience I concluded this is likely a working concept, therefore a theory was born. But I'm now looking for more perspective on this from more engineers.
The idea of using a delay in the opposite channel isn't unique, of course not.

The idea of solving a mathematical equation in order to mix, I assure you is. No-one else does this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothVibe ➑️
I have now gone from a much over simplified approach to a more colorful approach,
You reckon?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothVibe ➑️
So these days my mixes are also to a great degree technical in nature. Currently I'm optimizing my technical approach to creating perceived depth, because at this point I'm much better at creating width than depth. So that's the background, I don't see anything "weird" about that at all, from the point of view that this would be some confused way of thinking that doesn't make sense. This is just some pretty well known concepts... but now I'm looking for techniques that can further optimize the depth of my mixes...
I'm not saying your results are weird (where can we hear some of them?) but your way of approaching it definitely is. As I've said before...you have a real tendency to overthink, and overcomplicate what is essentially a fairly fluid process. You don't need to solve equations to be able to mix.

There's no one way to go about things of course, but I think you're in serious danger of paralysing yourself by going round and round obsessing over things that really don't matter.

But - it could be having the most stunning results. Hence the reason I'd like to hear some of what you've been doing. If it's working for you...I'll shut up!
Old 16th September 2012
  #8
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Tinderwet's Avatar
 
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🎧 10 years
I take it you would like to know how to create front to rear depth in a mix. As you have guessed, it usually happens with the use of reverb and/or delay, with the help of EQ used on the source and/or the reverb, if needed. The parameters, however, are not carved into stone; if you can make it sound interesting and balanced throughout the song, you're golden.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #9
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 ➑️
Indeed. Or do your thinking and then switch off and mix. Like golf. You don't feck with your swing while doing a round, but in between, on the driving range. Think of mixing as learning to play an instrument. Once you have internalised enough mechanisms of bending sounds around the actual 'playing' happens. And for a mix to end up sounding exciting you will have to be able to do it quickly without thinking much. This won't happen effectively while you're still having to think too hard about every decision. Just keep going. Fluidity arrives sneakily and gradually.
Please note that in my recording workflow I only do approx. 50% of the total mixing when I'm doing the production process. The other 50% happens as post-mixing during the finalization process when the production process is done. I have designed my workflow in this way because it simplifies and concentrates the recording efforts. That means e.g., that the total nr of technical mixing concepts impacting the production process is split in half, during production I instead apply various production techniques, concepts around automation, dynamics, timing etc. I really encourage engineers that do the recording process end-to-end, to follow this same route, it really helps a lot...
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
The idea of using a delay in the opposite channel isn't unique, of course not.

The idea of solving a mathematical equation in order to mix, I assure you is. No-one else does this.



You reckon?!



I'm not saying your results are weird (where can we hear some of them?) but your way of approaching it definitely is. As I've said before...you have a real tendency to overthink, and overcomplicate what is essentially a fairly fluid process. You don't need to solve equations to be able to mix.

There's no one way to go about things of course, but I think you're in serious danger of paralysing yourself by going round and round obsessing over things that really don't matter.

But - it could be having the most stunning results. Hence the reason I'd like to hear some of what you've been doing. If it's working for you...I'll shut up!
Regarding my comment "It's a bit tricky though, because first I need to solve an equation", I didn't say so with a literal meaning to it, I just said so to sort of make it a bit more funny in a sense... you see what I mean? I guess my style of going deeply into stuff and then suddenly mixing in jokes can be a bit tricky to understand, but all of my friends understand me from that angle.

EDIT: I replaced the pic with the heh pic in the original thread post to make this 100% clear for everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
There's no one way to go about things of course
I agree and this is an important point...
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
But - it could be having the most stunning results. Hence the reason I'd like to hear some of what you've been doing. If it's working for you...I'll shut up!
I'm going to have a recording session later today, I'm going to record with a couple of newly acquired gear items. Maybe, only maybe, can this result in a short demo of my current recording material...
Old 16th September 2012
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
FullCount's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
lolwut
Old 16th September 2012
  #13
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WunderBro Flo's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
The Sacha Baron Cohen of GearSlutz. I am starting to like the threads of this guy.
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