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Daft punk, how they sampled back in the day?
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #61
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifer ➡️
a Hip Hop DJ perspective of 'crate digging'. In other words searching for that small section in a song that can be taken and looped and serves as the main hook of the track. It takes a lot of trial and error and patience to find something useable.
some of these cats also have a fantastic memory for what is in their collection and an ability to mentally visualize if it was going to fit. I had a client who would sit there staring into space for a moment searching his memory banks, then dive into his records and come out with the 'perfect' thing the first time!
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #62
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j-uk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown ➡️
Takes work
Agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown ➡️
T
- you need to understand the concepts, not just the process in one DAW.
But, do you really?

So Devil's advocate then.....

Quite a few posts here have mentioned the pioneers of electronic music with Delia, Schaefer through to... has Shocklee been mentioned..........
The music they created was heavily affected by limitions of the technology they were using.

Almost none of those limitations exists anymore so why should those concepts play a part?

Yes, looking back on eras gone by can inspire new and innovative approaches however in recent years we seem, to more often than not, see a a carbon copy procedure rather than a fusion of old and new.

Surely the new generations of electronic music creators should be encouraged to use the full scope of modern DAWs instead of being bogged down by dogmas of the past...?
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #63
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narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by j-uk ➡️

Almost none of those limitations exists anymore so why should those concepts play a part?
... because it pushes one to use the creative part of ones mind rather than the userguide or youtube tips.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #64
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j-uk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman ➡️
... because it pushes one to use the creative part of ones mind rather than the userguide or youtube tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman ➡️
... because it pushes one to use the creative part of ones mind rather than the userguide or youtube tips.
Speed reading again are we.....?

Anyway by that logic we should all be favouring cylinder phonographs as our medium of recording...

Speaking of, this is pretty awesome!
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #65
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahKim ➡️
how about i just live with you for a couple a months and you teach me everything :D yay
I dunno. You look a little young. He might end up in jail.
Old 17th September 2012
  #66
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travisbrown's Avatar
 
9 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahKim ➡️
how about i just live with you for a couple a months and you teach me everything :D yay
Uh, let me ask.

"Honey, this girl I met on the Internet is coming to live with us. Okay?"
Old 17th September 2012
  #67
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travisbrown's Avatar
 
9 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by j-uk ➡️

But, do you really?

So Devil's advocate then.....

Quite a few posts here have mentioned the pioneers of electronic music with Delia, Schaefer through to... has Shocklee been mentioned..........
The music they created was heavily affected by limitions of the technology they were using.

Almost none of those limitations exists anymore so why should those concepts play a part?

Yes, looking back on eras gone by can inspire new and innovative approaches however in recent years we seem, to more often than not, see a a carbon copy procedure rather than a fusion of old and new.

Surely the new generations of electronic music creators should be encouraged to use the full scope of modern DAWs instead of being bogged down by dogmas of the past...?
Humm, you might be over-reading me a bit. But I'm of the mind that when you learn the concepts of how the tools work (and more fundamentally how sound and music works), you have much more opportunity to seek and innovate, even synthesize, solutions if you understand how and why something works rather than just knowing that pushing *that* button does something. This is what differentiates humans from the chicken in the cage at the county fair pecking at the red button to get a little bit of feed.

Once you knew what compression was and how it shapes sound, did it become easier to recognize it, replicate what you were hearing in other music? Or a ducked delay? Or a HPF? Or the different waveforms and filters for analog synths? This is what I'm recommending to my new roommate SarahKim. She wants to know how her favourite artists achieve certain sounds and effects. Learn the concepts behind the techniques and soon she should be able to start synthesizing a solution simply by understanding what she is hearing, and then you don't rely on "Step A, B, C in DAW XYZ" which seems to plague a lot of unsophisticated composers who tend to be limited by what comes included with the app. At leat that's what seems to be the case from reading the lines of questions on forums and the like.

When you know the concepts behind the processes, it removes some of the limits towards achieving your musical vision. You begin to recognize possibilities by creating disparate associations. Ducked delay is a good example: someone understood delay and understood expansion, and innovated a unique solution to great effect. And we all immediately know what we are hearing because we understand delay and expansion too. Without the conceptual understanding, where do you start towards accomplishing it (unless there is a pluging and preset that does it for you)?

I'm also of the mind that you gain much of this understanding by simply screwing around and poking at sound to see how it responds.
Old 17th September 2012
  #68
Gear Head
 
SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Is it possible that I could talk to any of you through skype for tips! ? I think ill learn faster if I could just talk and ask questions!
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #69
Gear Head
 
SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown ➡️
Uh, let me ask.

"Honey, this girl I met on the Internet is coming to live with us. Okay?"
im sorry i was just joking :( I didnt mean to make it seem like that
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #70
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahKim ➡️
Is it possible that I could talk to any of you through skype for tips! ? I think ill learn faster if I could just talk and ask questions!
I imagine folks are going to want to get paid for that kind of thing. I also imagine that there are plenty of tutorials out there, since there are plenty of tutorials for pretty much everything these days.
Old 17th September 2012
  #71
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SarahKim's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
well ok :(
Old 17th September 2012
  #72
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eddie.machete's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Dateline up in this piece.

sent from the future
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #73
Lives for gear
 
j-uk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown ➡️
Humm, you might be over-reading me a bit.
Well, I just ran with it


Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown ➡️
But I'm of the mind that when you learn the concepts of how the tools work (and more fundamentally how sound and music works), you have much more opportunity to seek and innovate, even synthesize, solutions if you understand how and why something works rather than just knowing that pushing *that* button does something. This is what differentiates humans from the chicken in the cage at the county fair pecking at the red button to get a little bit of feed.

Once you knew what compression was and how it shapes sound, did it become easier to recognize it, replicate what you were hearing in other music? Or a ducked delay? Or a HPF? Or the different waveforms and filters for analog synths? This is what I'm recommending to my new roommate SarahKim. She wants to know how her favourite artists achieve certain sounds and effects. Learn the concepts behind the techniques and soon she should be able to start synthesizing a solution simply by understanding what she is hearing, and then you don't rely on "Step A, B, C in DAW XYZ" which seems to plague a lot of unsophisticated composers who tend to be limited by what comes included with the app. At leat that's what seems to be the case from reading the lines of questions on forums and the like.

When you know the concepts behind the processes, it removes some of the limits towards achieving your musical vision. You begin to recognize possibilities by creating disparate associations. Ducked delay is a good example: someone understood delay and understood expansion, and innovated a unique solution to great effect. And we all immediately know what we are hearing because we understand delay and expansion too. Without the conceptual understanding, where do you start towards accomplishing it (unless there is a pluging and preset that does it for you)?
I agree with all of this but let me give you an example of what I'm thinking of. I did a session with a well know dance producer a X years back, just as he was starting out his career.
First thing we did was to transfer his stuff from the laptop to the main studio computer.
Of course I did the diligent sound engineer thing, took the stems and softsynths and made everything neat and purdy.... sounded like crap..!
Nice sounding but boring. So I had a look at this Logic project and realised that everything was limited to the hilt and the master bus was glowing red like the Devil in the dark!

He had no idea you weren't "suppose" to do that and by not having a clue he'd gotten a sound that people found really exciting.
He'd just used the presets on the channel strip for and gone with the ones that he liked. No knowledge just intuition and ears.

Education is invaluable but sites like this always perfunctory falls back on tried and tested methods and very rarely encourage young padawans to throw caution to the wind and just listen rather than learn the "correct" way.

Again, I'm being the devils advocate here, of course I agree with the benefits of understanding the underlying concepts. To paraphrase Miles, you can't break the rules if you don't know what they are!

Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown ➡️
I'm also of the mind that you gain much of this understanding by simply screwing around and poking at sound to see how it responds.
Yup!
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #74
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Barish's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Didn't Dire Straits take a Synclaiver II (or Emulator II, not so sure there) out into the wilderness to sample cricket sounds and stuff for the Brothers In Arms album (or Love Over Gold album; again, not so sure, but what an awesome album from top to bottom) in the early/mid 80s?
Old 17th September 2012
  #75
Gear Nut
 
ramjac's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Back in the day, sampling was a case of squeezing as much as possible out of a very small amount of memory. I came onboard in 1988 with 1/2mb of sample power and an equal amount of computer power. With a midi cable in between and stereo out, I played to up to 10,000 people for 40 minutes. Changing discs took about 30 seconds so I brought various items including congas to bridge the gap and to add to the groove.

Daft Punk were not so different from anyone using that technology, only the memory capacity would have increased fourfold and then upwards, with multiple samplers employed. The Moving Shadow studio recorded their entire vocals into an S3200 for example and used a second for virtually everything else.

The Jungle and D&B phenomena grew out of nothing but samplers and preceding that, the entire house music explosion depended on samplers. Then theres HipHop. The creativity went way beyond arguments of originality and theft. Thats like saying records are evil because some people famously made bad ones. A sampler doesn't programme itself.

If you want to get that old sound, 1st start sampling. find the magic moments you want to capture either from records, speech, videos yourself playing, whatever it might be. With 1/2 a meg of memory this might be 4 or 5 loops and say 8 short percussion sounds.

2nd, using your sample software's key layout, line the samples up on a keyboard as they would have been in a sampler program of the period. If you don't have such a facility, i.e. to play samples via keyboard, you are going to be really limited as to what you can do to get that back in the day sound. You can line them up in an audio bin of course and drag and drop, emulating playback tricks such as rhythmically repeating start points and cutting between sounds.

3rd, utilise the samplers pitch and filters. You can do this with plug ins if your sample payer doesn't have them. Pitch should not be a time stretch, it should be real pitch, which if a loop will help you match the tempo of a loop to the tempo of your track. The pitch SHOULD change as well as the tempo. Use octaves and fifths for variety. Cut rhythmic loops on down beats and the two or four so you can play with the rhythm but keep the essence of the sample.

Spread a sample over a key range so you can make a melody from it by hand. Play in the lower regions for a sound that doesn't relate to the original so obviously. Don't transpose too high, because erthe old samplers couldn't. Mine would only go a few semitones up. I would sample 33's at 45 rpm sometimes and vice versa.

Resonating filters can be set to velocity sensitivity, or to respond to the controller wheel.

Arpeggiate.

These are just some of the tricks of the trade, using samplers for that back in the day sound. Top times. Can't beat a limited palette.

Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #76
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by j-uk ➡️
Speed reading again are we.....?

Anyway by that logic we should all be favouring cylinder phonographs as our medium of recording...

Speaking of, this is pretty awesome!
that is brilliant.

No - we shouldn't be USING this methods - but understanding them (including how sound gets on the wax) people do better jobs,.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #77
Gear Guru
 
theblue1's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman ➡️
that is brilliant.

No - we shouldn't be USING this methods - but understanding them (including how sound gets on the wax) people do better jobs,.
Absolutely agreed.

Our modern systems are so complex and so far removed from technologies that are easily understood by those who haven't had a good technological education and the sort of rational process that go with it (and that, sadly, is a great many) that we find ourselves at a point where many of those using the technologies both as consumers and as content creators have little or no technical grasp on the processes at work behind the faceplates.

Trying to understanding today's technology without a good foundation in basic science and and a grasp of the history of that technology is a fool's errand.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #78
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travisbrown's Avatar
 
9 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahKim ➡️
im sorry i was just joking :( I didnt mean to make it seem like that
I was just teasing. It's all good.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #79
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travisbrown's Avatar
 
9 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahKim ➡️
Is it possible that I could talk to any of you through skype for tips! ? I think ill learn faster if I could just talk and ask questions!
Sarah, you'll get better help just trying something, post an example or description of what you are trying to achieve, and say where you are getting stuck. Someone will help. You might get three different ways to achieve the same thing. And by keeping it public here (or there), you help other people in the future whom might be looking for the same answer.

You were trying to play a melody by pitch-adjusting a sample the other day. Did you get anywhere on that? I'd suggested that you look into beatslicing. Let's start there.
Old 18th September 2012
  #80
Gear Addict
 
eddie.machete's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown ➡️
Sarah, you'll get better help just trying something, post an example or description of what you are trying to achieve, and say where you are getting stuck. Someone will help. You might get three different ways to achieve the same thing. And by keeping it public here (or there), you help other people in the future whom might be looking for the same answer.

You were trying to play a melody by pitch-adjusting a sample the other day. Did you get anywhere on that? I'd suggested that you look into beatslicing. Let's start there.
Ok, if you want to take a sample and adjust the pitch to create a melodic riff, first I'd say get ableton for what you want to do. Without a doubt. And maschine definitely too. Not needed but very much for fun, workflow, improvisation,hands on and away from the mouse approach. There are various ways to do this as always people have been doing it for ages. In ableton you can take any sample and drag it onto the pad of an empty drum rack. From there you can play it on your MIDI controller or keyboard. I usually play them on pads, you can adjust a boat load of parameters within the drum rack, including pitch. I'm using this technique right now in a hip hop track and kind of using ableton the same way you would use an mpc. Ive dragged a vocal sample about one- two seconds long of Aretha Franklin onto various pads in an empty drum rack and went into each individual sample and adjusted the pitch to fit the song and create a melody from the sample. I can then play the melody hitting the drum pads on my keyboard. Or you could write the notes in with MIDI. You can also drop plug ins on individual samples within the rack. There are so many options it can give you a sore head. Being limited can definitely be a good thing sometimes. But you can start from there. Get the ableton demo and try that. Wether it be a three second guitar riff, a one second vocal, or 12 seconds of a string quartet, the principles are the same. I'm getting an old mpc soon and just wanna go around collectin vinyl and making tracks like that on top of drums for the reason that I want to be at least somewhat limited in what I can do. Because you can find yourself lost in possibilities and parameters in a daw and it can have the adverse effect of what its meant to do, inspire creativity.

My opinion of course.
Might be worth considering.

sent from the future
Old 18th September 2012
  #81
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eddie.machete's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I'd also say get into a samplers mindset. As in always be on the hunt as you listen to music. Be in the habit of not listening to one genre. I'd say expose yourself to as much variation as possible. Ive sampled everything from a horror scream which I processed into a vinyl scratch, to an m1 Abrams tank turret mechanism turning processed into a kick drum, once you almost train your ears into listening out for snippets you can use you can start seeing the bigger picture of a track in your head. Some people don't like this but what I do sometimes is go onto YouTube and just search around for weird sheit and download the video convert to MP3 and drop into ableton and chop and process into something useable. I done it the other day with a video some slut posted of her moaning for a recording for boyfriend. God knows why she posted it online. But that ho is now in a track of mine. Chopped up and dropped a Kramer plug on that ****e! Haha.

sent from the future
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