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Mytek 8x96 vs. Lucid 8824 vs. Spider vs. Apogee AD8K
Old 9th September 2002
  #1
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jeronimo's Avatar
Mytek 8x96 vs. Lucid 8824 vs. Spider vs. Apogee AD8K

Hello guys,

Forget about the 96K thing right now. Let's talk about 44.1.

Which one would you get?
Old 9th September 2002
  #2
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Add Prism Dream ADA to the list too?

I feel its very hard to forget the "96k thing" any new converter purchases should IMHO have it factored in for future proofing..

What sort of material are you doing?

Do you have many world class pre amps already?

What DAW are you on?

Old 9th September 2002
  #3
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alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
yeah... you add that spider in there and you get 8 world class pre's, tape "effect", and summing, along with the conversion.
Old 9th September 2002
  #4
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DigitMus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I voted with my $$ for the Spider - best front-end investment I ever made.

Scott
Old 9th September 2002
  #5
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jeronimo's Avatar
I record mostly heavy rock. I only have the preamps on my Tascam 2524 board and a Meek VC6. I'm planning to get the RNP and a VTB-1 in a near future.
I'm using a Digi 001 on a G4.
Old 9th September 2002
  #6
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Jules's Avatar
Spider then...

Includes 8 x mic pres & converters

Old 10th September 2002
  #7
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NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I find the Spider and the Mytek to be about on the same level of quality. It really just depends on which feature set you need...if you have a bunch of preamps, why would you need 8 more for an extra $3500 no matter how great (and believe me the Crane Song is GREAT). If you have everything else situated and you are on a bit of a budget I would recommend the Mytek. If you need and can afford extra preamps (which it sounds like you do), summing and tape saturation DSP then go for the Spider, it's an excellent value overall if that's what you need.
Old 10th September 2002
  #8
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jeronimo's Avatar
Well, the thing is, I can't afford the Spider right now, but I'll make everything possible (save, save, save, save...) to get it very soon...
Old 10th September 2002
  #9
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Jules's Avatar
The Prism Dream ADA is fantastic but hidiously expencive. I managed to trade an Apogee AD8000SE for one in a whacky deal I made.

Old 12th September 2002
  #10
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
I was just looking into the spider as a front end for my daw, and I was curious if it allowed 96khz sample rates for all 8 channels? It would have to split them into 2 adat lightpipe outs to do this like the mytek's, right? Ok, so if it only allows 44.1 or 48khz sample rate for 8 channels simultaneously, does it really make that much of a difference not to have the 96khz? Thanks for the help.
Old 13th September 2002
  #11
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NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by teddancin
I was curious if it allowed 96khz sample rates for all 8 channels? It would have to split them into 2 adat lightpipe outs to do this like the mytek's, right?
SMUX is not available on the Spider yet. I think Dave is shooting for late fall...Novemberish. It is however available on the Mytek 8x96.


Quote:

Ok, so if it only allows 44.1 or 48khz sample rate for 8 channels simultaneously, does it really make that much of a difference not to have the 96khz?
I suppose that's up to you. I'd rather have a great a/d @ 48k than a crappy one @ 96k...Crane Song & Mytek will excell at both though IMO.
Old 13th September 2002
  #12
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks a lot for the answers NathanEldred. I think I can wait until November to buy one (should give me time to save up ALL that money, hehe).
Old 13th September 2002
  #13
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by teddancin
I was just looking into the spider as a front end for my daw, and I was curious if it allowed 96khz sample rates for all 8 channels? It would have to split them into 2 adat lightpipe outs to do this like the mytek's, right? Ok, so if it only allows 44.1 or 48khz sample rate for 8 channels simultaneously, does it really make that much of a difference not to have the 96khz? Thanks for the help.
DISCLAIMER: Despite the high praise of Mytek, I don't work for them. I don't work for them, I don't work for them. Oh yeah, did I mention I don't work for them? tut

I can't answer your questions about the Spider, but for the Myteks -- eight channels of simultaneous 96k are available at the AES/EBU i/o, and eight channels of simultaneous 96k are available using their ADAT card. I would bet money that the Spider does 96k on all channels as well.

Back to the topic, I would go so far as to recommend the Mytek 8X96, be it ADC or DAC! I have 16 channels of each .

Attributes: They're so neutral that I forget about them until I hear another converter (which so far, is not better and usually much worse) and go "turn it off, use this." The first time I recorded drums with them, I heard more of the tone of the kit, and more of the space surrounding it - much more smoothly - than my old 888|24 ever could do. All other instruments through the Myteks bear this out as well (but I'm a drummer heh ). Heaven. This was not even using 96k.
Also, you get extremely good technical support from the designer and CEO, Michal, who is also a cool dude. He'll discuss his views on equipment design and the state of the industry, ad-infinitum if he's not too busy.

Shortcomings: I haven't found any.

I remember the Apogee AD8K. It was cool until I heard the Mytek.
Old 14th September 2002
  #14
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jeronimo's Avatar
Humm, for how much the Myteks go and how the smux thing works???
Old 14th September 2002
  #15
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NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jeronimo
Humm, for how much the Myteks go and how the smux thing works???
You'll need double the inputs physically required for 96/88.2 (ie 24 inputs needed = 48 lightpipe inputs or 6 connections). Since you asked specifically, give a call or email about the Myteks for more info if you like.
Old 14th September 2002
  #16
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by NathanEldred


You'll need double the inputs physically required for 96/88.2 (ie 24 inputs needed = 48 lightpipe inputs or 6 connections). Since you asked specifically, give a call or email about the Myteks for more info if you like.
That's not quite the whole story. From the Mytek site:

"Prism MRX(tm) bit splitting allows for full 24 bit recording on 16 bit Tascam machines. 4 channel 96kHz recording on ADAT and Tascam DA78HR is supported via S/MUX(tm) coding (a feature functionally equivalent to a double wire AES/EBU)."

On 44.1/48k recording devices, S/MUX requires that your track count is halved for the sample rate to be doubled.

Hope this makes sense. This link should explain it all: www.mytekdigital.com/8X96.htm
Old 15th September 2002
  #17
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NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
That's not quite the whole story.

On 44.1/48k recording devices, S/MUX requires that your track count is halved for the sample rate to be doubled.
Wow, that's really what I thought I said two posts above....

Yes, track count is halved, but on a computer there is no 'halving' or finite set in stone amount of tracks really other than what your CPU is capable of in the same way a stand alone HD recorder has. For an example, a Tascam MX2424 is capable of 12 tracks of 24/96 only because it's capable of 24 tracks of 24/48k.

A typical professionally configured PC is easily capable of 64 tracks or more of 24/48k mono tracks, so 32 tracks of 24/96k should be exactly as easy to produce. So if he needs 24 simultaneous tracks of 24 bit/96k (i.e. typical usage....for a transfer from 24 tracks of a 24/96 HD recorder somebody brings to his studio for mixdown) then he will need 48 standard lightpipe inputs. 48 mono tracks of standard (24/48) lightpipe inputs will reside on 6 toslink connections and will produce only 24 mono 24/96k tracks on the same 6 toslink connections.

When I say standard I mean what one connection is normally capable of in maximum (for the last ten years as delevoped by Alesis in the early 90's), that being 24/48. That's why you see 2 output lightpipe connectors on the back of a Mytek for 8 channels instead of just 1 Toslink output. To get 8 channels of 24/96 out of one converter with lightpipe you need two toslink (toslink=lightpipe, same basic thing) connections on the output of the converter, AND on the recieving end of the digital multitrack recorder (ie the computer or stand alone hard disk recorder).

The below link is very helpful and a little more in depth than the Mytek site. Sonorus is the one that actually developed the S/MUX method and is working in conjunction with Mytek:

http://www.sonorus.com/audio/smux.pdf
Old 15th September 2002
  #18
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Cool! A lecture including caps, boldface stuff and all (taking care to really point out what we are surely missing!), but my post was further clarifying your answer to jeronimo's question of how S/MUX works.

Quote:
Originally posted by NathanEldred


Jax said "On 48/41.1k recording devices, S/MUX requires that your track count is halved for the sample rate to be doubled."

Wow, that's really what I thought I said two posts above....
Not exactly... you mentioned doubling the number of physical inputs when working at 96 or 88.2k, which doesn't explain how S/MUX works. Nor does it explain why it's necessary to double the number of i/o. If it helps someone to know how this is techincally achieved, the we can get into that as well.

Beyond that, instead of saying "track count", I should have said simultaneous i/o... this got you unravelling :

"Yes, track count is halved, but on a computer there is no 'halving' or finite set in stone amount of tracks really other than what your CPU is capable of in the same way a stand alone HD recorder has. For an example, a Tascam MX2424 is capable of 12 tracks of 24/96 only because it's capable of 24 tracks of 24/48k.

A typical professionally configured PC is easily capable of 64 tracks or more of 24/48k mono tracks, so 32 tracks of 24/96k should be exactly as easy to produce. So if he needs 24 simultaneous tracks of 24 bit/96k (i.e. typical usage....for a transfer from 24 tracks of a 24/96 HD recorder somebody brings to his studio for mixdown) then he will need 48 standard lightpipe inputs. 48 mono tracks of standard (24/48) lightpipe inputs will reside on 6 toslink connections and will produce only 24 mono 24/96k tracks on the same 6 toslink connections.

When I say standard I mean what one connection is normally capable of in maximum (for the last ten years as delevoped by Alesis in the early 90's), that being 24/48. That's why you see 2 output lightpipe connectors on the back of a Mytek for 8 channels instead of just 1 Toslink output. To get 8 channels of 24/96 out of one converter with lightpipe you need two toslink (toslink=lightpipe, same basic thing) connections on the output of the converter, AND on the recieving end of the digital multitrack recorder (ie the computer or stand alone hard disk recorder).

The below link is very helpful and a little more in depth than the Mytek site. Sonorus is the one that actually developed the S/MUX method and is working in conjunction with Mytek:

http://www.sonorus.com/audio/smux.pdf"
Old 15th September 2002
  #19
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jeronimo
Humm, for how much the Myteks go and how the smux thing works???
Oh yeah... after a lot of searching, the lowest price I found was $2500 from Studio Consultants, NYC. Very good service too.

Be aware that the Mytek 8X96s are sold as 8 ch. a/d OR 8 ch. d/a per box. Might affect your decision.
Old 16th September 2002
  #20
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
[Cool! A lecture including caps, boldface stuff and all (taking care to really point out what we are surely missing!), but my post was further clarifying your answer to jeronimo's question of how S/MUX works.


Beyond that, instead of saying "track count", I should have said simultaneous i/o... this got you unravelling :
I was also just trying to clarify, no offense meant in your direction...

Quote:

Oh yeah... after a lot of searching, the lowest price I found was $2500
Without the lightpipe card, add a few bills for that...


Quote:

Be aware that the Mytek 8X96s are sold as 8 ch. a/d OR 8 ch. d/a per box. Might affect your decision.
Still a deal @ around $350 a channel IMO. They are supposed to be coming out with their 2 channel A/D post AES. There will probably be some suprises at the show.
Old 16th September 2002
  #21
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Michal at Mytek tells me they are showing their DSD converter at AES. He said apparently only a few cos. can take advantage of the technology on a "large scale" (6 channel!) basis and that Sony specifically plans to use DSD for (small ensemble) classical recording and for surround mastering.
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