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GS-R24m vs ZED R16 for the project studio
Old 29th January 2013
  #31
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mitzush's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
walnut desk

I'm going to be building a walnut desk for the R24 soon.

Anyone else interested in one?
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #32
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitzush ➑️
Hi Prado,

By 'pushed hard' I mean the sum of a mix coming through the master buss is approaching maximum headroom. The way analogue circuitry reacts to a signal changes depending on it's strength... inducing more non linear distortion/crosstalk etc. as it increases.

Some equipment doesn't like it, and sounds worse as it reaches it's maximum capacity (always subjective - granted), in my experience the R24 tends to sound better as it approaches clipping, and the VU meters start to pin.

Never really tried this with the R16, maybe because of its lack of VU meters as a visual feedback.
Thanks, Mitzush.

You've made it clear. I've just got a new monitoring system that will permit me to adjust my gain post ZED R-16, so even without the metering, I can try pushing the ZED and reducing that gain for some comparisons.

In digital I always think of keeping my chain hottest at first input and then avoiding amplification. I guess here it's the opposite through the board: keeping the sum output hot as possible and decreasing the channel gains to stay under.
Old 30th January 2013
  #33
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Moatl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitzush ➑️
I'm going to be building a walnut desk for the R24 soon.

Anyone else interested in one?
Heh I already built one myself - well not walnut but it almost looks like it

I posted some pics in this thread:

https://gearspace.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/798791-amp-h-gs-r24m-users-post8593208.html

At least several people asked me already if it was walnut...
...it's actually birch
Old 30th January 2013 | Show parent
  #34
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mitzush's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moatl ➑️
Heh I already built one myself - well not walnut but it almost looks like it

I posted some pics in this thread:

A&H GS-R24M Users !!! - Gearslutz.com

At least several people asked me already if it was walnut...
...it's actually birch
Nice. Unusually dark for Birch though, did you stain it?
Old 30th January 2013
  #35
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Moatl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitzush ➑️
Nice. Unusually dark for Birch though, did you stain it?
Yes I glazed it - it made the grain come out quite nicely
And I did the rest of the studio furniture the same way so it all has a unified look...
Old 8th February 2013
  #36
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🎧 10 years
Hi all, I'm looking into getting the GSR24 for electronic dance music production. Is there anyone here who has experience in using the desk for that type of music? Is there enough 'weight' in the sound of the console?
Thanks!
Old 9th February 2013
  #37
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Moatl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
No dance music here,
but I do mostly Roots Reggae & Dub and I can assure you it has lots of
'weight'

You will love the EQ it goes down to 18Hz(!!) and this band is fully parametric! heh
Old 9th February 2013 | Show parent
  #38
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moatl ➑️
No dance music here,
but I do mostly Roots Reggae & Dub and I can assure you it has lots of
'weight'

You will love the EQ it goes down to 18Hz(!!) and this band is fully parametric! heh
Awesome, thanks for the info! :-)
Damn now I need to get me one...
Old 30th March 2013 | Show parent
  #39
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Hi everyone!


I'm brand new here and I have a bit of a mystery problem with our GSR24m + FireWire / ADAT card and I'm praying someone here can help.

It was apparently one of the first off the UK production line and has worked perfectly for the past 18 months or so. A few months back however the output volume dropped rendering the desk pretty much unusable. A couple of excellent engineers have had a look at the desk, routing etc and have as yet been unable to figure out exactly what the problem is.

The desk was in the UK but is now located in Sweden.
It was purchased from StudioXchange who referred us on to Allen & Heath UK for help.
Mike from Allen & Heath UK referred us on to Benum - the distributor in Sweden who have been helpful but the issue remains undiagnosed.




The symptoms:

The output (from our Mac) through the desk and speakers is barely audible. This is the same whether the audio comes from Logic, ProTools, iTunes etc

The output from the Mac is fine when monitored on headphones or the Mac's own speakers bypassing the desk

The volume is fine when directly monitoring a mic or instrument plugged into the desk

All the firmware and drivers are up-to-date





The desk is currently between project studios and I'm not an engineer - I only have very basic knowledge. I will be eternally grateful if anyone can help troubleshoot this bizarre issue.



Many thanks!
Old 30th March 2013 | Show parent
  #40
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mitzush's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSR24mProblem ➑️
Hi everyone!


I'm brand new here and I have a bit of a mystery problem with our GSR24m + FireWire / ADAT card and I'm praying someone here can help.

It was apparently one of the first off the UK production line and has worked perfectly for the past 18 months or so. A few months back however the output volume dropped rendering the desk pretty much unusable. A couple of excellent engineers have had a look at the desk, routing etc and have as yet been unable to figure out exactly what the problem is.

The desk was in the UK but is now located in Sweden.
It was purchased from StudioXchange who referred us on to Allen & Heath UK for help.
Mike from Allen & Heath UK referred us on to Benum - the distributor in Sweden who have been helpful but the issue remains undiagnosed.




The symptoms:

The output (from our Mac) through the desk and speakers is barely audible. This is the same whether the audio comes from Logic, ProTools, iTunes etc

The output from the Mac is fine when monitored on headphones or the Mac's own speakers bypassing the desk

The volume is fine when directly monitoring a mic or instrument plugged into the desk

All the firmware and drivers are up-to-date





The desk is currently between project studios and I'm not an engineer - I only have very basic knowledge. I will be eternally grateful if anyone can help troubleshoot this bizarre issue.



Many thanks!
Hi, so you're feeding the desk the output of your mac line out mac>line in gs r24?

is that correct?
Old 31st March 2013 | Show parent
  #41
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks so much for your reply!
The desk/FireWire card is selected as the audio out.
Is there something else I should check on the Mac?
Old 31st March 2013 | Show parent
  #42
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Melgueil's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Smartest looking desk out there in this price range. Instantly takes you from home studio to something, that at least from an eye-candy perspective, looks more "real" studio. Then there is the meter bridge.

Yes, I come from that era. God do I miss a meter bridge and metering in general. DAW meters are too small and do not respond as well.

Good luck with that desk, looks awesome.
Cdlt

Last edited by Melgueil; 31st March 2013 at 10:46 AM.. Reason: spell
Old 31st March 2013 | Show parent
  #43
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mitzush's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSR24mProblem ➑️
Thanks so much for your reply!
The desk/FireWire card is selected as the audio out.
Is there something else I should check on the Mac?
You need to be more specific.

what DAW are you using?
how are you connected to the R24? Firewire 400?
What mac do you have?
Do you have the digital pot return turned up?
Have you tried re-seating the firewire card?

the more info you give the more chance somebody will be able to help you.
Old 31st March 2013
  #44
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Moatl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Dumb questions but just to make sure you have:

a) the "digi master" button pressed in the master section of the desk?

b) chosen Ch. 31 & 32 of the Allen Heath as the speaker outputs in the Audio-Midi-Setup of your Mac?

c) nothing plugged into your 2bus inserts that is not routed to a normalled patchbay or a running piece of gear?
Old 1st April 2013 | Show parent
  #45
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitzush ➑️
You need to be more specific.

what DAW are you using?
how are you connected to the R24? Firewire 400?
What mac do you have?
Do you have the digital pot return turned up?
Have you tried re-seating the firewire card?

the more info you give the more chance somebody will be able to help you.
Hi.
Thanks again for trying to help. Please see my answers below. As I said in my original post I'm no engineer and my experience with the desk is limited but I'll try and answer as best I can.

What DAW are you using?
Logic 9.1.3
We were also running Pro Tools but since I reinstalled the Allen & Heath drivers and firmware etc Pro Tools doesn't work - says its missing the iLok despite the iLok being present.

How are you connected to the R24? Firewire 400?
Not sure about this - all I know is its connected by FireWire. Where can I look for more info on this if its important?


What mac do you have?
MacPro 1,1 Dual Core Intel Xenon 2.66mhz 3gb running OSX 10.6.6

Do you have the digital pot return turned up?
Yes

Have you tried re-seating the firewire card?
Not yet. Do you just mean taking it out and putting it back again?

Thanks agin for your help and suggestions!
Very much appreciated.
Old 1st April 2013 | Show parent
  #46
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moatl ➑️
Dumb questions but just to make sure you have:

a) the "digi master" button pressed in the master section of the desk?

b) chosen Ch. 31 & 32 of the Allen Heath as the speaker outputs in the Audio-Midi-Setup of your Mac?

c) nothing plugged into your 2bus inserts that is not routed to a normalled patchbay or a running piece of gear?
Hi, and thanks for your questions.
I'll do my best to answer them below.

a) The "digi master" button pressed in the master section of the desk?
Yes, although doesn't seem to do much.

b) Chosen Ch. 31 & 32 of the Allen Heath as the speaker outputs in the Audio-Midi-Setup of your Mac?
Yes.

c) Nothing plugged into your 2bus inserts that is not routed to a normalled patchbay or a running piece of gear?
Nothing is connected to any of the inserts. There are leads plugged into the six Aux outs. Tried removing the jacks but no difference.

Thanks so much for trying to help.
Cheers!
Old 1st April 2013 | Show parent
  #47
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mitzush's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSR24mProblem ➑️
Hi.
Thanks again for trying to help. Please see my answers below. As I said in my original post I'm no engineer and my experience with the desk is limited but I'll try and answer as best I can.

What DAW are you using?
Logic 9.1.3
We were also running Pro Tools but since I reinstalled the Allen & Heath drivers and firmware etc Pro Tools doesn't work - says its missing the iLok despite the iLok being present.

How are you connected to the R24? Firewire 400?
Not sure about this - all I know is its connected by FireWire. Where can I look for more info on this if its important?


What mac do you have?
MacPro 1,1 Dual Core Intel Xenon 2.66mhz 3gb running OSX 10.6.6

Do you have the digital pot return turned up?
Yes

Have you tried re-seating the firewire card?
Not yet. Do you just mean taking it out and putting it back again?

Thanks agin for your help and suggestions!
Very much appreciated.
The most suspicious thing there is that your DAW is not functioning because of the iLok issue. Allen and Heath drivers have nothing to do with the iLok. It seems like one of your plugins which is dependent on the iLok is playing up.

If you had a plugin inserted that is no longer functioning, that could cause a drop in output level. Do you have any plugins inserted in you Logic project?
Old 1st April 2013 | Show parent
  #48
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitzush ➑️
The most suspicious thing there is that your DAW is not functioning because of the iLok issue. Allen and Heath drivers have nothing to do with the iLok. It seems like one of your plugins which is dependent on the iLok is playing up.

If you had a plugin inserted that is no longer functioning, that could cause a drop in output level. Do you have any plugins inserted in you Logic project?


The output volume issue is not limited to one Logic project or even just to Logic. The volume is still low if I play songs from iTunes or use the Internet.

The volume is fine however when using speakers or headphones directly with the Mac - the issue only exists when outputting any audio from the Mac via the FireWire card.

I'll try today to re-seat the FireWire card and see if that makes any difference.

Fingers crossed.
Old 1st April 2013 | Show parent
  #49
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mitzush's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSR24mProblem ➑️
The output volume issue is not limited to one Logic project or even just to Logic. The volume is still low if I play songs from iTunes or use the Internet.

The volume is fine however when using speakers or headphones directly with the Mac - the issue only exists when outputting any audio from the Mac via the FireWire card.

I'll try today to re-seat the FireWire card and see if that makes any difference.

Fingers crossed.
Using the mac with your headphones and using the R24 via firewire are two completely unrelated things. On the mac with headphones you are using the internal sound card with Apple's driver. What driver do you have selected in Logic when you are using the R24?
Old 1st April 2013 | Show parent
  #50
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mitzush's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSR24mProblem ➑️
The output volume issue is not limited to one Logic project or even just to Logic. The volume is still low if I play songs from iTunes or use the Internet.

The volume is fine however when using speakers or headphones directly with the Mac - the issue only exists when outputting any audio from the Mac via the FireWire card.

I'll try today to re-seat the FireWire card and see if that makes any difference.

Fingers crossed.
btw, seating the firewire card can be a bit of a PITA. I'd only try it as a last resort. (it's easy if you turn the R24 upside down and take off the base plate - then you have very good access and you can easily see what you're doing)
Old 1st April 2013 | Show parent
  #51
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitzush ➑️
Using the mac with your headphones and using the R24 via firewire are two completely unrelated things. On the mac with headphones you are using the internal sound card with Apple's driver. What driver do you have selected in Logic when you are using the R24?
hi again

yeah I know - that was my point - that there is nothing wrong with the Mac's own audio out, only when out through the firewire>>>desk.
Old 1st April 2013 | Show parent
  #52
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
So it looks like there's no issue with the Mac itself
No issue with the desk going direct from an input straight to the speakers
Only when playing audio from the Mac to the desk, regardless where the audio comes from (Logic, iTunes, internet).

Its as if someone has turned a secret master volume switch all the way down to 2.

I'm gonna try and re-seat the firewire card tonight.

Thanks again for the help so far!
Very much appreciated.
Old 1st April 2013 | Show parent
  #53
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djmukilteo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSR24mProblem ➑️
So it looks like there's no issue with the Mac itself
No issue with the desk going direct from an input straight to the speakers
Only when playing audio from the Mac to the desk, regardless where the audio comes from (Logic, iTunes, internet).
Its as if someone has turned a secret master volume switch all the way down to 2.
I'm gonna try and re-seat the firewire card tonight.
Thanks again for the help so far!
Very much appreciated.
Have you tried connecting a new FW cable?
I'm sure you have but never hurts to check and rule that out.
Also if you have another FW computer and DAW that you could use to test so you can try to rule out the Mac, DAW or GSR. It's got to be one of those.
If you can rule out the Mac/DAW and it turns out to be something going on in the GSR then I would say a call to A&H support is in order!
It could be a bad power supply internally..
Old 1st April 2013 | Show parent
  #54
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mitzush's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmukilteo ➑️
Have you tried connecting a new FW cable?
I'm sure you have but never hurts to check and rule that out.
Also if you have another FW computer and DAW that you could use to test so you can try to rule out the Mac, DAW or GSR. It's got to be one of those.
If you can rule out the Mac/DAW and it turns out to be something going on in the GSR then I would say a call to A&H support is in order!
It could be a bad power supply internally..
This is good advice. Everyone is shooting in the dark here, but replacing the computer entirely, use another DAW, another cable and select the correct Allen and Heath driver in your DAW. Also I guess you don't have any other channels solo'd right? All solo's off on the desk?
Old 1st April 2013 | Show parent
  #55
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mitzush's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Also - make sure the L-R button under the Digital Return pot is engaged!

that's all I can think of. Good luck!
Old 1st April 2013 | Show parent
  #56
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSR24mProblem ➑️
So it looks like there's no issue with the Mac itself
No issue with the desk going direct from an input straight to the speakers
Only when playing audio from the Mac to the desk, regardless where the audio comes from (Logic, iTunes, internet).

Its as if someone has turned a secret master volume switch all the way down to 2.

I'm gonna try and re-seat the firewire card tonight.

Thanks again for the help so far!
Very much appreciated.
I'm a little confused, but one issue that might have already been considered needs to be looked at again.

I'm not a Logic user, but most DAWs have preferences or options setting for audio, and you must tell the program which audio device you intend to use.

As others seem to be trying to point out, the MAC's own audio and that of the A&H are separate systems.

Lack of proper audio device selection would certainly lead to problems as you describe in the PC world.

You have purchased very expensive and cutting edge gear. Why don't you request assistance from those you bought it from?
Old 1st April 2013 | Show parent
  #57
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mitzush's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by prado escondido ➑️
You have purchased very expensive and cutting edge gear. Why don't you request assistance from those you bought it from?
I'm wondering about this to. Seems strange that support would leave you hanging with this unless problems with the desk had been ruled out.
Old 1st April 2013
  #58
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Moatl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Ok just get a hold of the situation:

- Speakers connected to CRM OUT of the desk
- Mac connected to the console via firewire and all issues to the Mac and its FW port - incl. cable ruled out
- Instruments & Microphones plugged into the console are audible
on the console's master bus and the control room speakers, right?

now:

- check the allen & heath firewire application on your mac: what does it say
about the status of the console? does it say "OK"?

- If you have a mic plugged into the console - do you get a signal in Logic and
can you record it properly?

- if you have an already recorded track in Logic - let's say on track 1 in Logic - and you choose track 1 of the console as the track 1 output in the DAW - does the signal reach track 1 of the console? And if so do you hear it through the speakers? edit: you have to have button "C" or "B" on the console's Channel 1 pressed!!

check the attached pics - in the first pic there's two circles - a red one and a yellow one:

if you have none of the buttons in the area of the red circle pressed you will hear what comes from the channels and the master bus of the console. If you want to hear what comes from channel 31 & 32 returns (audio from the Mac, iTunes, etc.) you have to have the button in the red circle "DIG MASTER" pressed - otherwise you won't hear it.
If you have this button pressed you won't hear what comes from the channels anymore.

The peak meter in the master section (not the VU-meter) shows what reaches the control room (see pic 2)
So if you play back music from iTunes and have the DIG-MASTER button (red circle) pressed, do you see the audio level on the peak meter?

The knob and the button in the yellow circle:
if you press the button below the "DIG MASTER INPUT" knob, you send the CH 31&32 return (e.g. what comes from iTunes) to the Master bus (you'll see the VU-meters moving) - the knob controls how much of the return signal is sent to the master bus.
In this case should leave the DIG MASTER (red circle) unpressed - so you hear how the return signal sounds through the console's master bus.



...just ideas
Attached Thumbnails
GS-R24m vs ZED R16 for the project studio-gsr24m_master1.jpg   GS-R24m vs ZED R16 for the project studio-gsr24m_master2.jpg  
Old 1st April 2013
  #59
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Hi all, and thanks again for the input!



I have already requested assistance from Allen & Heath but I've kinda been palmed off hence why I've come on here.


StudioXchange the UK dealer it came from just said to contact Allen & Heath. They've not replied to my two subsequent emails seeking further clarification on who exactly to contact.

Mike at Allen & Heath UK service helpdesk said that they're "not equipped to provide this level of support over the phone". All I wanted was someone to walk me through some troubleshooting suggestions eg. plug a microphone into here and press this button then press that etc etc. He just referred me on to a very nice guy called Johan at Benum (the A&H distributor) in Sweden. He had only just joined the company and his main area of expertise was in live desks. He was very helpful and did indeed walk me through some troubleshooting as above and we concluded that the desk itself seems fine. I haven't heard from him for over a week though. If the desk needs to be looked at it has to go to yet another company again (their service partner) and they are a very long way from where we are, hence the desire to try and least diagnose the issue before sending the desk off on a long journey to Gothenburg.

I do feel disappointed in the lack of real support, especially considering the praise A&H seem to get on here for customer care etc.

Mike Griffin are you out there somewhere?
Old 1st April 2013 | Show parent
  #60
Gear Addict
 
Moatl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitzush ➑️
Also - make sure the L-R button under the Digital Return pot is engaged!
Like I just tried to clarify in my post above - you only need to have this button pressed if you want to route the divi return (Ch 31&32) from the Mac or the DAW to your summing bus of the console!

If you just want to listen back to your digi return leave it unpressed and press the DIG MASTER button above CRM level knob...as described above.
πŸ“ Reply

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