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5 khz... what's it good for?
Old 19th June 2006
  #1
Kush Audio
 
u b k's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
5 khz... what's it good for?

of all the freqs i've developed a relationship with --- cut because i know what less will clarify, or boost because i know what more will give --- 5k is one that i just don't ever go for. it's not even an option on the outboard.

what is 5k to you? what is it responsible for? is it ever a target for anything in particular, or just an innocent bystander when futzing with 4k?


gregoire
del
ubk
Old 19th June 2006
  #2
Lives for gear
 
syra's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Good Q.

5K to me is presence. I think of 4K as a frying-pan kind of sound...I find myself boosting 5K usually on Kicks, snares and toms. Sometimes guitars and vocals too.

I have a feeling that your 4K is my 5K and vice versa. I usually find 4K in the way of my vision...
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
vernier's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Some singers are deficient there, so a tad of 5k can help. Also an area where things can sound metalic, like digital verb, so a cut at 5k can be good.
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
picksail's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
5K does wonders for accentuating the "stick" sound of a tom.
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #5
11413
Guest
5k is urgency... like right ****ing now or else i'll slit your throat urgency.

nice on snare drum.
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
drew's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
I feel the same way about 170-190hz.
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Head
 
chezero's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You can buy lot's of gear with 5K.
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
sedohr's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezero
You can buy lot's of gear with 5K.
YESSSS! Funny!!!!
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Guru
It's the sound of all the Beatles records. The console had a 5k top EQ.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by drew
I feel the same way about 170-190hz.
Yep! Me too.

As far as 5K, I always end up 6 or 7K. This rule works for Hz or for €€...
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Nut
 
Jamstudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams
It's the sound of all the Beatles records. The console had a 5k top EQ.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Realy ?, I think i read in a al. parsons interview that when mixing sgt. Pepper he had 2 eq controls.
bas @ 100 and treble @ 10k

Remco
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Guru
 
🎧 20 years
there are some nice piano and harmonica overtones around 5k
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
vernier's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
It's the sound of all the Beatles records. The console had a 5k top EQ.
Quote:
Realy ?, I think i read in a al. parsons interview that when mixing sgt. Pepper he had 2 eq controls.
bas @ 100 and treble @ 10k
5k too low, and 10k too high I think. Anyone here with a REDD desk that could tell us?
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
six_wax's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
5kHz is great for masking the problems I haven't sorted out in the lower mids...

I surfed the SM "DistGuitars from Hell" rant a few months ago, and the quote that rings in my ears is "GOD HATES 10K!!!"
Old 19th June 2006
  #15
Gear Guru
 
theblue1's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I hate to say it, it sounds so pat, but, really, use your ears. Admittedly, I'm pretty cued into isolated tones and frequency ranges. I got my first stereo test record when I was, like, 12.

But even so, I found sweepable and parametric EQs to be highly instructive -- and extremely valuable at cleaning up problems. Knowing where to reach first is second nature, to be sure -- but I still always experiment just to make sure my call was on.
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamstudio
Realy ?, I think i read in a al. parsons interview that when mixing sgt. Pepper he had 2 eq controls.
bas @ 100 and treble @ 10k

Remco
That was much later, I was mentioning the early stuff from 64/65.
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
David Lee's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I tend to charge a little more if the client wants 5k

i mix live a lot and i use 5k to emphasize the snap of the kick. i use the presonus ACP88 and the gate clicks at about that frequency when the attack is set fast, helps to give some top end to the kick
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Berolzheimer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams
That was much later, I was mentioning the early stuff from 64/65.
I admittedly don't know a lot about those consoles but I'd guess that it was a pretty gentle slope, catching a lot under 5k too, right, and shelving?
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
oortnyc's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamstudio
Realy ?, I think i read in a al. parsons interview that when mixing sgt. Pepper he had 2 eq controls.
bas @ 100 and treble @ 10k

Remco
I had been wondering about this. I'd really like to know what those 2 knobs settings were (Freq and Q).
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
vernier's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
I admittedly don't know a lot about those consoles but I'd guess that it was a pretty gentle slope, catching a lot under 5k too, right, and shelving?
Yep, shelving ...lows 100 hz, and highs, usually 7 or 8 khz. And it was happening up into the 70's ...part of the reason Crosby Stills & Nash sounded so natural on their first couple albums. And Beatles (Paul singing "Yesterday") ..thats passive shelving. Smooth, natural, you can't beat it.
Old 20th June 2006 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Tibbon's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Which EQ's do passive shelving?
Old 20th June 2006 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
i remember now.....

yeah agreat song who was that guy died awhile back..... 5k uh huh..., what is it good for..... absolutely nuthin......uh huh.... say it a gain.... 5k.....uh.... come on work with me baby ....i aint feeling ya....
Old 20th June 2006 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon
Which EQ's do passive shelving?

Pultecs and Langs are probably the most popular.

In modern EQ the Manley Massive Passive.
Old 20th June 2006 | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
vernier's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Which EQ's do passive shelving?
It was in old hi-fi gear and old consoles.
Old 20th June 2006
  #25
Harmless Wacko
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b i k
of all the freqs i've developed a relationship with --- cut because i know what less will clarify, or boost because i know what more will give --- 5k is one that i just don't ever go for. it's not even an option on the outboard.

what is 5k to you? what is it responsible for? is it ever a target for anything in particular, or just an innocent bystander when futzing with 4k?


gregoire
del
ubk
Well ubik.

I gotta tell ya... If you start to get into the whole directly adjacent/narrow band band cuts and boosts thing I've been known to wax on endlessly about.... 5k can be something yer using a WHOLE whopping bunch of across a mix.

A much BETTER choice than 4 or 6k for certain types of "semi-dirt" guitar sounds in particular. Especially when you're low-passing at a relatively low area like 7 or 8k. Narrow as all git-out, you can often get away with much more 5k than 4 or 6k, as the 4k makes the TRUE midrange 'persist' too much, and the 6k makes ya feel like ya gotta keep swinging the lowpass down to control the 'rat'.

Another common place is snare. Let's imagine yer putting the archetypical 8-12 dB "****Smash" with an 1176 on a snare that has it's subtone at 200, it's tonic at 400, it's 'attack points' at 1.6 and 3.2k and it's 'splatter points' at 6.5 and 13k. A Slingerland Spitfire tuned to "HiMidBark" is gonna do this.... Right? When confronted by such a scenario, I will often use 2 Eq's on the snare... One before the 1176 to get the compression curve where I want it.... and one after to get the instrument sound where I think it needs to go in the total fray. The first may be cutting some particular bands(like 3.5 to 4k and 400) and the second boosting directly adjacent bands(like 5k and 300) to provide the snare with the proper 'taper'.

As has often been remarked upon here and elsewhere, describing WHAT you might need on the internot is roughly akin to trying to help someone tune-up their Jag XKE over the phone.

Grain of salt the size of Gibraltar.



Best regards,

SM.
Old 20th June 2006 | Show parent
  #26
Lives for gear
 
vernier's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Getting back to, "5 khz... what's it good for?" ...I'd say, since very instrument and voice contains vibrations in that frequency, then leave it alone ..don't mess with it ..enjoy it.
Old 20th June 2006 | Show parent
  #27
Kush Audio
 
u b k's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
lots of interesting food for thought here. i'm always down for reinventing my wheel -- every mix i try crazy new shΒ‘t -- but my eq choices usually involve one boost or (usually) cut down below 800, which i use to make an instrument bigger or smaller, and maybe a push or pull higher up to bend it forward or back. sometimes a 3k shelf just to open the whole damn shebang up or close it off. the tone is preserved so much better when i limit my carving to 1 or 2 bands, generous q, analog.

once i've found that magic push/pull freq (easy enough with a fixed band analog) i often have one hand on the boost/cut knob and one on the fader, jockeying them until the thing clicks into place. same thing with the pan knob and fader when i'm in mono.

the more i do this thing, the more amazed i am at just how far i can get with a mix using nothing but faders and pan. it can't be overstated how helpful a good monitoring environment is in this regard, and a little restraint on the first half dozen passes.


gregoire
del
ubk
Old 20th June 2006 | Show parent
  #28
Lives for gear
 
airmate's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon
Which EQ's do passive shelving?
look here. heh
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