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Any monitor making mixes sound like **** - till you get it right???
Old 22nd June 2006 | Show parent
  #31
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dubrichie's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
for active monitors, maybe check out the smaller speakers from ADAM.

for passive monitors check out the ADAM ANF-10 which i have heard described as being NS10-like in their general character.

however, in my personal experience of ADAM monitors, even though their high-mids and highs are very crisp, quick and wonderful i have found it at times hard to distinguish between the characters of different sounds in this range of frequencies.

i dunno quite how to express it, and i know that many here love the ADAM ribbon tweeters, but to me they seem to impart their own flavour to most sounds, to make them somewhat uniformly crisp and quick or whatever i should call it. i'm just not totally convinced by them.

for what you want from a monitor check out Harbeth. i haven't heard them myself but am intending to audition a pair for the same kind of role that you are looking to fill right now; the NS10 honesty thing.

regards,

richie.
Old 22nd June 2006 | Show parent
  #32
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
There is a reason certain rooms get booked more than others for mixing.

If you can't trust what you are hearing you'll never be able to be confident in delivering the best work.
I agree. Put a great mixing engineer in a great monitoring environment and the result will probably be very optimal.

What I would do in your case Johannes would really be to try do some mixes with a lot of different monitors (that you hire), then you choose the best sounding one (those that make your mixes the best sounding) and customize the rest with acoustic treatment. In the end it's all about making it work instead of just buying a set of expensive monitors that might make your mixes worse. I bet you want your mixes to sound awesome, your ears are unique, your room is unique and your mixes are unique, match the monitors accordingly and fine adjust with acoustic treatment that makes it all work great for YOU! I don't think there are any shortcuts to this, frequencies that the speakers don't deliver will not be produced by the room, so choosing a great set of main monitors is a very fundamental thing in recording. It's the same with choosing the right sound sources for each session player.
Old 22nd June 2006 | Show parent
  #33
Gear Nut
 
skopje's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
PMC TB2

You really have to go check out these speakers. They are made by a british company who specialise in monitors, but their stuff is also used by high end audiophiles.

Here is my experience. 2 years ago i was looking at getting some new monitors. I used to use eltex hifi speakers. Along with mixes that i knew well i also pplayed my best mix at the time which after listening on lots of systems was lacking in bass.

I went round to my friends studio with his big mackies, and it sounded pretty good, bass just needed a tweak. nothing major. Then i got a good deal on a piar of PMC LB1s and a hafler amp. I was quite shocked at what i heard. Initially i didn't like the speakers, they sounded bland. But when i played a professionally recorded track and then my mix it was night and day. There was so little bass in my mix was a joke. And there was also no high end either, which was totally new to me. Where the mackies hyped it the PMCs told the truth. I learned so much from this experience

They are transmission line speakers which means they are not rear ported, but have chambers inside the speaker to increase the distance the bass has to travel, giving lower frequencies.

You owe it to yourself to at least try these out. I had to sell the PMC LB1s when i got ill, but at some point in the future i will be a PMC owner again

Stephen

P.S. when you audition any monitor aslo take along a mix of yours that you know has faults and see by degrees how each set of speakers shows up the faults alongside mastered recordings
Old 25th June 2006 | Show parent
  #34
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skopje
There was so little bass it was a joke. And there was no high end either. Where the mackies hyped it the PMCs told the truth
Nice. I think experiences like these really teach you a lot as an engineer. This once again shows how important it is to try out things for real rather than only relying on GS answers. Having a good set of speaker systems at hands is extremely important in recording.
Old 28th June 2006
  #35
Lives for gear
 
brendondp's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joho
Hey folkes,

Ever since becoming a freelancer I'm looking for a small to mid sized monitor to be my trusted friend. I have different problems with different monitors/rooms (obviously) but I discovered that the main 3 characterisitcs/flaws that come with a speaker are:

1. Freq response (has a LOT to do with the room too)
2. Depth/width
3. Making ****ty mixes soudn like ****TE!

...

Basically, to make a long story short, I'm looking for monitors that make you mixes totally SUCK, until you really get it right : freq response, width/depth, souding like ****!!! (both freq wise and in width and depth)

For example Dynaudio AIR's another friend has, seem to have both qualities (when something is 2D, it's just that, and when something is harsh and small, it really "reaveals"! Another speaker I've heard would do that Tannoy Reveal 6D.

Any comments?

Appreciate it.

-Johannes
Hi Johannes,

I'm not sure I can answer your question specifically relating to monitors that make it sound "****e" until you get it right, but I bought ATC SCM10.2's which do this:

They make it sound like a whole collection of frequencies, effects, compression artifacts, and "clever tricks" until you get it to sound like music.

For me, this has become the most essential variable in my practice of making music.

Though the SCM10.2's are at the lower end of the ATC spectrum, I have come to value and trust them far more than my instincts often want to push me. "Overmixing" as Thrill puts it is very tempting.

For the project I'm working on now, I've now spent far more time on mic placement and selection, and selecting the right instrument or amp or drumstick in order to get the right tone (rather than sticking good ole X in front of good ole Y) because the the ATC's tell me when I have a collection of interesting frequencies and when I have a musical instrument. Big difference.

If that's the type of thing you value, then I highly recommend you listen to some ATC's. I valued Thrill's opinion when considering what monitors would be suitable for my environment, and I don't regret my decision one bit. They're the type of monitors that encourage you to go on a learning curve, rather than give you lowest common denominator sounds to make you feel like a hero.

Cheers to you,

bdp
Old 29th June 2006 | Show parent
  #36
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hands down - Adam S3A's are what you are describing.

I NEVER think they sound amazing.
But bad mixes sound like turds and great mixes sound like great mixes.

By great I mean mixes that are so well balanced that they sound the same no matter where you hear them. In a word - Translate.

I only drank the Adam coolaid after I A/B'd mixes done on them with mixes done on other monitors.
Adam mixes always won the translation war.
Old 29th June 2006
  #37
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
thats what most people like the NS-10 for... i allways would prefer a ns-10 over a br25 and i had them1:1 for year..but the br´s´´had to go...
however...
small monitors that make even mixes that are classics look bad because you hear the pumping compressor on the toms in an anoying amount Are:

Spendor QT100....

One guy told me that Spendor monitors in general go in that direction...
Old 29th June 2006 | Show parent
  #38
Lives for gear
 
SoundEng1's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw
Yamaha NS10m's

JBL LSR25p's

Sub

Sony 7509 Headphones (for accurate bass)

And these (line in) boomboxes for mids and highs - always gets rid of harsh highs and choking mids.

My mixes translate fine.

Attachment 21295

Attachment 21296

Where can i The philips Boom Box?
Old 29th June 2006 | Show parent
  #39
Kush Audio
 
u b k's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
ns10

atc scm

adam 2.5

truth ta1p



gregoire
del
ubk
Old 29th June 2006
  #40
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
You may want to try the Event TR series. I added a pair of TR5s to my setup, which seem to sound decent only when a mix is dead on. Otherwise, they're pretty nasty, especially when there are several things out of whack from the hi mids on up. I would think that the entire TRs are much the same - very clinical. I hated them at first, but they've since saved me a lot of time fixing problems. The ALP5 is rumoured to be in the same tradition, but I haven't tried them. Anyway, something to consider as a less expensive alternative to the Adams.
Old 30th June 2006 | Show parent
  #41
Gear Nut
 
skopje's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
TR 8

I was going to buy some TR8s until i listened to them, i was shocked. Loads of bass, ear shredding treble with not much in the mids. Not for me

stephen
Old 30th June 2006 | Show parent
  #42
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundEng1
Where can i The philips Boom Box?
They stopped making that model so you have to Ebay it (I had too) - excellent box though, although I route sound through my Sony (again discontinued) pretty much all the time.

It is just a massive help to have a boom box set 10ft away for perspective. Being right in front of the nearfields can really give me a wrong impression on overall levels sometimes.

My mix environment is terrible so I have to constantly check on all my mediums.
Old 30th June 2006 | Show parent
  #43
Gear Nut
 
skopje's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
tarot

I personally prefer to mix by getting my tarot cards read. They charge a lot less than mediums

Just kidding

stephen

Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw
They stopped making that model so you have to Ebay it (I had too) - excellent box though, although I route sound through my Sony (again discontinued) pretty much all the time.

It is just a massive help to have a boom box set 10ft away for perspective. Being right in front of the nearfields can really give me a wrong impression on overall levels sometimes.

My mix environment is terrible so I have to constantly check on all my mediums.
Old 9th September 2006 | Show parent
  #44
Gear Maniac
 
rara114's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by edham ➡️
Hands down - Adam S3A's are what you are describing.

I NEVER think they sound amazing.
But bad mixes sound like turds and great mixes sound like great mixes.

By great I mean mixes that are so well balanced that they sound the same no matter where you hear them. In a word - Translate.

I only drank the Adam coolaid after I A/B'd mixes done on them with mixes done on other monitors.

Adam mixes always won the translation war.

I just moved my S3A's around a bit for some tuning and also have to say the Adams help the final result more than other monitors I'ved used in the past. They do have a revealing factor to them that is well, revealing. Other speakers might sound more smooth or round or fuller, but its all about the translation to me. It is very important to get the room sounding as best as possible with proper acoustical treatment as this will help your mixes more than ANY monitors will. Placement relative to walls, floor, desk, and each other also will play an important role in translation. One of the biggest problems I hear from people who just did their mixes at some studio is that it sounded GREAT in the control room, but then when they played it in their car or home stereo they were totally dissapointed and even shocked at the difference. My choice for Adam S3A's wasn't because they sounded the best (they don't) it was because I get the best RESULTS from them.

PERIOD.
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