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-10 or +4, Whats it to Me?
Old 30th October 2008
  #31
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cosmos's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman714 ➑️
The manual for my 24 ch Soundcraft Spirit Auto says "All input Tape Sends are factory set to suit -10dBV equipment. If a level of +4dBu is required the output level may be changed by removing resistors R130/R131 from the Input PCB."
I am using the Tape Send on each chanel directly into my Alesis HD24. Is this change something I need to consider doing? Its working as it is right now & everything sounds ok, but I seem to be running the individual chanel gains pretty high. I did use the search function, but could find no clear answer. In fairness, none of this is very clear to me! A clarification is definately in order.
I posted this question over at Tapeop also.
i just got the same desk a few weeks ago but dident had the chance yet to test it. anyway, why dont you just cut the resistors ? ive just looked at the manual and it looks like an easy job.. just follow the steps on the manual.. i will do the same soon ...
Old 30th October 2008 | Show parent
  #32
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RonT's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
You guys are totally Uber Geeks!
Old 30th October 2008 | Show parent
  #33
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FeatheredSerpent's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
dBVU is another reference - I can't remember offhand what to. VU orvolume unit are what your mixing desk shows. Not your Daw though - that uses dBFs - which is the level related to all bits on, ie full scale, and so dBFs signals are always negative (you can't have louder than full scale, and the log of a value less than 1 is negative.
Ok, so u or v are voltage - VU seems to be to do with old school radio modulation legalities that got carried on to refer to tape too.

I think I'll just stick to 0dBVU = -18dBFS = (should result in) 85dB SPL and leave it at that, I don't want to become an electrican as well lol!
Old 30th October 2008 | Show parent
  #34
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
dBVU is another reference - I can't remember offhand what to. VU orvolume unit are what your mixing desk shows. Not your Daw though - that uses dBFs - which is the level related to all bits on, ie full scale, and so dBFs signals are always negative (you can't have louder than full scale, and the log of a value less than 1 is negative.
VU is what ever you want it to be...-10dBV, +4dBu, +8dBu...
Its a VU meter, LED, D?Arsonval movement ect it measures volume units...

And regardless of the referrence; dBV, dBu the "difference" is based on the same, 10dB up or down the scale its still a ratio; 20*Log P1/P2...
Old 30th October 2008 | Show parent
  #35
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FeatheredSerpent's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio ➑️
VU is what ever you want it to be...-10dBV, +4dBu, +8dBu...
But should equate to 85dB SPL, is that right?
Old 30th October 2008 | Show parent
  #36
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent ➑️
But should equate to 85dB SPL, is that right?
err...no.

dB SPL is the sound pressure level, relative to 2 x 10^-5 Pa.

you can have your meters reading 0VU...then turn down the volume control so you can't hear anything! the actual SPL depends on the size of your speakers, amplifier etc.

have a read of Decibel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for a bit more understanding. I just wish I could remember more of it from my uni days....
Old 30th October 2008 | Show parent
  #37
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent ➑️
But should equate to 85dB SPL, is that right?
No, SPL is sound level, its scale is also dB based ...
This may be confusing, but it's still a ratio...
Wattage is a slightly different formula; 10*Log P1/P2
And for example: if your speakers are producing say 90dB SPL and you double the wattage say 10 to 20 watts, that equates to a 3db increase in SPL...

Just because something uses a dB scale does not mean it's the same thing.

An electrician could say something like: I need a 6dB increase in voltage on all my AC outlets, another electrician could ask? How much is that???

It's simply double the voltage regardless of your reference point; 10 to 20 volts, 50 to 100 volts, 120 to 240 volts, all is a 6dB increase...

See how this works?
Old 30th October 2008 | Show parent
  #38
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmos ➑️
i just got the same desk a few weeks ago but dident had the chance yet to test it. anyway, why dont you just cut the resistors ? ive just looked at the manual and it looks like an easy job.. just follow the steps on the manual.. i will do the same soon ...
He did, and then he came to Memphis and we did mine. Then Mine got toasted and I got it modded.
Now it really rocks.

Uber Geeks, continue to hijack the thread, sorry for interrupting your goofyness.
Old 30th October 2008 | Show parent
  #39
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🎧 10 years
Always remember there IS a difference between "audio engineering" and "audio production".

There's a REASON the word "engineering" is in there!
A true engineer isn't just someone who pushes faders and twiddles knobs.

I highly recommend that anyone who is REALLY interested in audio engineering reads every possible thing they can about the physics and math of sound, and electrical engineering involved in audio systems.
Knowing the differences between dBv, dBu, dBFs, etc. really IS important to making the highest quality recordings possible.

Can you make great recordings without knowing this stuff - sure.
Recording is an art as much as it is a science, and I know people who are completely clueless with the technology side of things that are brilliant artists. But having a brilliant production that uses a well engineered system will probably sound better than the same brilliant production made on a slapped-together home recording rig.
Old 30th October 2008 | Show parent
  #40
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🎧 15 years
Here is an interesting .PDF which seeks to provide a clear reference on the subject. I haven't thoroughly read it but on the surface it appears to be a good read.

http://gtk.hopto.org/postnuke/module...=getit&lid=164
Old 31st October 2008 | Show parent
  #41
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproc ➑️
Always remember there IS a difference between "audio engineering" and "audio production".

There's a REASON the word "engineering" is in there!
A true engineer isn't just someone who pushes faders and twiddles knobs.

I highly recommend that anyone who is REALLY interested in audio engineering reads every possible thing they can about the physics and math of sound, and electrical engineering involved in audio systems.
Knowing the differences between dBv, dBu, dBFs, etc. really IS important to making the highest quality recordings possible.

Can you make great recordings without knowing this stuff - sure.
Recording is an art as much as it is a science, and I know people who are completely clueless with the technology side of things that are brilliant artists. But having a brilliant production that uses a well engineered system will probably sound better than the same brilliant production made on a slapped-together home recording rig.
Well, I hate to point this out to you brilliant genius engineers, but, if you had read more than the title and the posts you guys wrote, you would know that the post was about specifically what does it mean to his particular board and how to make it more of a cohesive +4 experience, not whether +4 or -10 are logarithmic or linear calculations.
You lost the forest for the trees.
Old 31st October 2008 | Show parent
  #42
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
no difference

+4 and -10 have no efect on quailty, they deal with the 0dBf refernce point in relation to electricity i beleve its like either 1.78v for +4 and like 1v for -10 or some thing like that, traditionaly pro grear is rated at +4 but all that means is that it is all mic level as aposed to say -10 or line level, thus you have the direct box to change all that to where you may need it. as long as you keep your conections right so +4 to +4 etc then you should be fine.
Old 31st October 2008 | Show parent
  #43
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🎧 10 years
I agree with jproc,

anyone doing audio on a relatively serious level should have basic understanding of physics. Doing music is art, constructing audio gear is science (or should be), anyone spending time between these two disciplines should have some understanding and training in both areas. That's my (not humble) opinion! :-)


A voltage level of +4dBu is about 1.125V and is 4dB above 0dBu which is 0.707V.

A voltage level of -10dBV is about 0.316V and 0dBV is 1V.

Mic level is somewhere about 2-40mV out (between pin 2 and 3) for an input of 94dB SPL.

And 94dB SPL is 1Pa.

The auditory threshold is 0.00002Pa.

The truth is that the auditory threshold depends on the frequency. The "reference" is at 1kHz or 2kHz for the average person. Up at 3-4kHz the hearing is most sensitive and there we hear even weaker levels, lower than 0dB means a negative value.. say -5dB or -6dB or so.

It's late here now so I should probably not write this now.

Oh BTW, I see a forest made up of threes. ;-)


/Peter
Old 31st October 2008 | Show parent
  #44
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memphisindie's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
You dog.


I have no short term or long term memory, so I keep a book called "Music, Physics, and Engineering", handy. I try not to read it anymore. I do reference it when needed.


I hide in shrubs.
Old 31st October 2008 | Show parent
  #45
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🎧 10 years
heh


/Peter
Old 31st October 2008 | Show parent
  #46
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🎧 10 years
Ok, I didn't explain myself very well in that last post heh

I know that those measurements are not on the same scale, that you can't directly compare them, but I'm relating them like this:

0dBVU is a slightly esoteric value right, but if you want to hear what 0dBVU sounds like, is it acceptable to say that your monitors should be outputting between 79 to 85dB SPL, when your master out reads 0dBVU and/or an RMS level of around -18dBFS?

I've realised that not all VU meters are going to be equal in terms of reference either, (I'm learning as I go along here so please bear with me!)

If I understand correctly - 0dBm was the original reference for power in a circuit and VU meters were calibrated to read 0dBVU @ 0dBm. But historically, meters were re-calibrated so that 0dBVU was referenced to whatever the optimum recording level for a particular tape was, no matter what amount of power was actually going through the circuit.

So you're always monitoring at the same reference level in spl, but average loudness is creeping up regardless alongside higher recording medium tolerances?
If 85spl is established as a monitoring reference level today, then how are VU meters calibrated today?
ie if you bought a high end console today, are the VU meters calibrated to a specific standard in terms of power? (dBu?) The headroom for different consoles would typically be pretty similar wouldn't it so I'm guessing yes.
In fact, now I've brought myself full circle, of course they are. Bit more reading got me there: So +4dBm was the standard calibration for 0dBVU, except it's been swapped out for 0dBu using the same reference voltage, which means 0dBVU on a console will measure +4dBu at the outputs. Please tell me that's right, and it was staring me in the face all along

So if nominal levels are +4dBu @ 0dBVU, are you all calibrating your monitors to output around 80spl @ 0dBVU/+4dBu?

The reason I'm obsessing over this is that most home producers always complain that their mix levels are so much lower than commercial recordings, and it's because they're shooting in the dark, as monitor input levels and audio interface output pots are always going to be set to a different and often arbitrary value from user to user.

I want to know that the spl I hear at +4dBu is exactly the same as the spl level you guys hear at +4dBu in your studios, if that makes sense.
Old 31st October 2008 | Show parent
  #47
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben B ➑️
How high do the VU meters go on your 2" deck?

Besides, no.

-Ben B

Mine go to 11.
Old 31st October 2008 | Show parent
  #48
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🎧 10 years
Darn good post, feathered serpent. I wondered why they complained and couldn't get it right, but, I wasn't willing to think about it. Now I'll look at my own rig.
Old 31st October 2008 | Show parent
  #49
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nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent ➑️
Ok, I didn't explain myself very well in that last post heh

I know that those measurements are not on the same scale, that you can't directly compare them, but I'm relating them like this:

0dBVU is a slightly esoteric value right, but if you want to hear what 0dBVU sounds like, is it acceptable to say that your monitors should be outputting between 79 to 85dB SPL, when your master out reads 0dBVU and/or an RMS level of around -18dBFS?

I've realised that not all VU meters are going to be equal in terms of reference either, (I'm learning as I go along here so please bear with me!)

If I understand correctly - 0dBm was the original reference for power in a circuit and VU meters were calibrated to read 0dBVU @ 0dBm. But historically, meters were re-calibrated so that 0dBVU was referenced to whatever the optimum recording level for a particular tape was, no matter what amount of power was actually going through the circuit.

So you're always monitoring at the same reference level in spl, but average loudness is creeping up regardless alongside higher recording medium tolerances?
If 85spl is established as a monitoring reference level today, then how are VU meters calibrated today?
ie if you bought a high end console today, are the VU meters calibrated to a specific standard in terms of power? (dBu?) The headroom for different consoles would typically be pretty similar wouldn't it so I'm guessing yes.
In fact, now I've brought myself full circle, of course they are. Bit more reading got me there: So +4dBm was the standard calibration for 0dBVU, except it's been swapped out for 0dBu using the same reference voltage, which means 0dBVU on a console will measure +4dBu at the outputs. Please tell me that's right, and it was staring me in the face all along

So if nominal levels are +4dBu @ 0dBVU, are you all calibrating your monitors to output around 80spl @ 0dBVU/+4dBu?

The reason I'm obsessing over this is that most home producers always complain that their mix levels are so much lower than commercial recordings, and it's because they're shooting in the dark, as monitor input levels and audio interface output pots are always going to be set to a different and often arbitrary value from user to user.

I want to know that the spl I hear at +4dBu is exactly the same as the spl level you guys hear at +4dBu in your studios, if that makes sense.
You are confusing two different things.
SPL is going to be in a dB scale (SPL Meter) but like all db scales it's referenced to something as well. Its starting point is the threshold of hearing. 0dB SPL would be the lowest sound level a human can hear, young children are usually the only ones that can hear it, it is 20uPa (micropascals).
So say 90dB SPL would be 90 dB above that level, it too has a reference point...

When someone says they like to mix at 85-90 dB SPL the best thing to do is get a Radio Shack SPL meter and crank your monitors to around 85db and see how loud that is to you, louder or softer than what YOU normally like to listen at...
IT HAS NO relationship to what voltage level your monitor out(XLR Out) is on your console...
Old 31st October 2008 | Show parent
  #50
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🎧 10 years
Ok sure, there is no scientific relationship between the two other than they use the same unit to express a measure of power, but has a relationship been created between the two in the recording world?

If Mr Katz is saying that it's normal to find monitors calibrated to 79dB spl in the music biz, and it's usual to find 85dB spl calibrated monitors in the film industry, then what are their monitors calibrated to, in terms of dBu?
I've seen references to people sending pink noise through the system to calibrate, and they set that pink noise level to around -18dBFS in order to achieve 79-85dB spl at the listening position.

This doesn't seem to be a set in stone method though so I just wanted to confirm if it was the way most people did it, and I'm guessing that when you all calibrated your monitors, you did it so that when pink noise registered 0dBVU on your consoles, the monitors were outputting around 80 or whatever spl.
It would be interesting to find out what the difference is in that monitor reference between different studios is, because maybe even the ones producing the hottest mixes in terms of signal level are the ones that have a higher dBu to spl ratio, which is what Katz was getting at.
Old 31st October 2008 | Show parent
  #51
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent ➑️
Ok sure, there is no scientific relationship between the two other than they use the same unit to express a measure of power, but has a relationship been created between the two in the recording world?

If Mr Katz is saying that it's normal to find monitors calibrated to 79dB spl in the music biz, and it's usual to find 85dB spl calibrated monitors in the film industry, then what are their monitors calibrated to, in terms of dBu?
I've seen references to people sending pink noise through the system to calibrate, and they set that pink noise level to around -18dBFS in order to achieve 79-85dB spl at the listening position.

This doesn't seem to be a set in stone method though so I just wanted to confirm if it was the way most people did it, and I'm guessing that when you all calibrated your monitors, you did it so that when pink noise registered 0dBVU on your consoles, the monitors were outputting around 80 or whatever spl.
It would be interesting to find out what the difference is in that monitor reference between different studios is, because maybe even the ones producing the hottest mixes in terms of signal level are the ones that have a higher dBu to spl ratio, which is what Katz was getting at.
You've completely and utterly missed the point.

I can get my meters to read 0VU with the monitors cut! The monitor level isn't relevant to the meter readings at all, it's just how loud you're amplifying the signal to listen to it! You can't "calibrate the monitors so 0VU = 85 dbSPL" - else how would you get a decent level at the mix buss, but then listen to something through really quietly or loudly? you couldn't!

when people talk about monitors being calibrated to 85dBSPL they mean there's a reference point on the actual dial, for which a certain level input will give you 85dBSPL in the room. So in your case, you could have a mark say 1/2 way up where 0VU=85dB. BUT of course you can turn the monitors up or down from this point, still have the console output being 0VU but the actual level in the room being louder or quieter than 85dBSPL.

Now...does THAT make any more sense? I can't see how it can be explained much clearer!
Old 31st October 2008 | Show parent
  #52
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nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent ➑️
Ok sure, there is no scientific relationship between the two other than they use the same unit to express a measure of power, but has a relationship been created between the two in the recording world?

If Mr Katz is saying that it's normal to find monitors calibrated to 79dB spl in the music biz, and it's usual to find 85dB spl calibrated monitors in the film industry, then what are their monitors calibrated to, in terms of dBu?
I've seen references to people sending pink noise through the system to calibrate, and they set that pink noise level to around -18dBFS in order to achieve 79-85dB spl at the listening position.

This doesn't seem to be a set in stone method though so I just wanted to confirm if it was the way most people did it, and I'm guessing that when you all calibrated your monitors, you did it so that when pink noise registered 0dBVU on your consoles, the monitors were outputting around 80 or whatever spl.
It would be interesting to find out what the difference is in that monitor reference between different studios is, because maybe even the ones producing the hottest mixes in terms of signal level are the ones that have a higher dBu to spl ratio, which is what Katz was getting at.
Not sure what point Katz made, but what I posted is correct.
There is NO correlation between what SPL amp/speaker A produces for a given input level and amp/speaker B...
The trim pot on an amp allows for adjusting this, I have never heard of someone calibrating the output of a console to produce a certain SPL at the listening position...
To add to that comment: I want a +4dBu out on my console to produce a SPL of 85dB SPL...
I see no point at all in this...
I do know some engineers that like a Normal level (SPL) to be say at 12:00 on the CTR Pot. This is more than likely what they he was talking about, but again this has NO correlation to what output level the console puts out to accomplish this...
The headroom of the console and the amps inputs is something to be aware of...
But this falls under the thinking; you dont want your amp to be far more or less than the rated power of the speakers, either one can result in a bad thing, good engineering plays a HUGE part in this IMHO.
You also have things like the gain of one amp is different from another...

One good reason I can think of to calibrate amps is if you have two sets of monitors and a A/B switch on the console, you WANT the two to produce as close as possible the same SPL level with the monitor pot say at 2:00, so when A/B ing there will be NO or very little difference in SPL level...
Old 31st October 2008 | Show parent
  #53
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio ➑️
Not sure what point Katz made, but what I posted is correct.
There is NO correlation between what SPL amp/speaker A produces for a given input level and amp/speaker B...
The trim pot on an amp allows for adjusting this, I have never heard of someone calibrating the output of a console to produce a certain SPL at the listening position...
To add to that comment: I want a +4dBu out on my console to produce a SPL of 85dB SPL...
I see no point at all in this...
I do know some engineers that like a Normal level (SPL) to be say at 12:00 on the CTR Pot. This is more than likely what they he was talking about, but again this has NO correlation to what output level the console puts out to accomplish this...
The headroom of the console and the amps inputs is something to be aware of...
But this falls under the thinking; you dont want your amp to be far more or less than the rated power of the speakers, either one can result in a bad thing, good engineering plays a HUGE part in this IMHO.
You also have things like the gain of one amp is different from another...

One good reason I can think of to calibrate amps is if you have two sets on monitors and a A/B switch on the console, you WANT the two to produce as close as possible the same SPL level with the monitor pot say at 2:00, so when A/B ing there will be NO or very little difference in SPL level...
Apart from Mr FS, we're all in agreement aren't we?!
Old 31st October 2008 | Show parent
  #54
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
Apart from Mr FS, we're all in agreement aren't we?!
Yes, to be fair understanding dB is not a quick thing, if you just remember it is a ratio, and you have to have a reference point, you can assign almost anything to it..
Voltage, current, wattage, SPL ect...
Old 31st October 2008 | Show parent
  #55
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memphisindie's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Ok, but t get back to the original post and tie it in, what does it mean to a guy who is trying to get his board that came factory modded to -10 when he needs it to be +4.
It means more gain, more headroom,
it means unmodding the board, (which he did and we also unmodded mine)
it means hitting the "sweet spot" of the pre's and widened the sweet spot of the entire board.
It also got all the gear's input stages on the same page, +4. which made transfers easier to monitor, any meter with the signal in it in the room was then accurate,
it also meant finding all the ro*******s in the console, such as the noise floor and the slew rate. They weren't bad, they sounded fine, BUT, gear has evolved and opamps have evolved and this board didn't keep up. It needed modding.
I got mine done and it mad a gigantic difference.
5 minutes ago i took all the mics I upgraded over the last two days, 10 of them, mic'd up a drum kit and recorded it.
This is the first time I have not needed any EQ or outboard pre's or outboard anything (yet, might compress a little) and the top and bottom were extremely well defined and full, controlled and musical, dead quiet noise floor.
Does it sound like a Soundcraft? not so much anymore. It sounds fantastic.
My room is using a set of NS10's, a Crown 450 watt/ch amp, a DBX Driverack PA, Sennheiser 240 headphones.

I use the control room volume to set the monitor level.
It change a lot.
I mic up get levels and replay at low volume and then if I'm happy I rock out loud!
My meter got loaned out 3 years ago and never came back.
Old 31st October 2008 | Show parent
  #56
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Ben B's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeatheredSerpent ➑️

If Mr Katz is saying that it's normal to find monitors calibrated to 79dB spl in the music biz, and it's usual to find 85dB spl calibrated monitors in the film industry, then what are their monitors calibrated to, in terms of dBu?
I've seen references to people sending pink noise through the system to calibrate, and they set that pink noise level to around -18dBFS in order to achieve 79-85dB spl at the listening position.
That is indeed common practice in the film industry. Calibrated monitoring is important due to the fact that film mixes are heard in similarly calibrated listening environments, such as movie theaters and properly set up home theaters. The monitors are adjusted so that pink noise output at -20 dB RMS (not -18) produces 85 dBSPL when measured from the front LCR speakers using a C-weighted meter. The subwoofer level is usually adjusted to produce 89dBSPL with its +10dB boost in line. The surrounds are adjusted to produce 82dBSPL for film mixes, and 85dBSPL for TV broadcast mixes. Outputing the pink noise at -20 dB RMS should correspond to a nominal level of +4dBu, and cause a 0dB deflection on a similarly calibrated VU meter.

Beyond this, there are even certain "standards" in terms to peak and average dialogue levels in theatrical/broadcast mixes. Dialogue usually peaks at around -10/-12 dBfs, while producing a desired long term average of -31 dBfs on a broadcast loudness meter. Louder dialogue is corrected using the dialnorm parameter at the encoding stage, should the LEQ(A) exceed -31. All these standards are meant to reproduce what the listener will eventually hear as closely as possible.

-Ben B
Old 2nd November 2008 | Show parent
  #57
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FeatheredSerpent's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
You've completely and utterly missed the point.
Ha ha! Wouldn't be the first time

To be fair to myself, my points were based on the premise of always having the monitor output dial at a fixed point, obviously you can just turn them up and down. But, I appreciate that I'm leading myself down the garden path somewhat with some aspects of this - I ws assuming that studio monitoring was calibrated the saem way that Ben B has described, but this is obviously not the case.
I was getting a bit mixed up..bless.
I found what I was looking for after the garden path adventure though - if I calibrate a meter to read -14dBFS rms at 0dBVU, then hitting 0 on 'typical musical peaks' whilst hitting +3 to +4 on 'extreme sustained peaks' will give me a ballpark 'loudness'.
So it seems a minimum of 10dB is recommended as being the boundary for a sensibly not compressed to buggery) mastered track.
This applies to a mastered record though, then I saw this:

Quote:
Typical values for a processed mix are around 4–8 (which corresponds to 12–18 dB of headroom, usually involving audio level compression), and 8–10 for an unprocessed recording (18–20 dB)
so I'd be interested to know if this is what you all typically achieve when you have a mix ready to go off to mastering..?
So if your finished mix is peaking at -6dBFS say, then are your rms levels at about -24?

I think I was getting confused with the spl thing because, what I would like is to be able to calibrate the monitors so I could learn by ear when I was hitting certain figures, but a well mixed track is still going to have a higher percieved loudness even when it's coming in at the same rms level as mine isn't it, which still kind of makes the spl thing a moot point..
Oh, well, we live and learn
Old 2nd November 2008 | Show parent
  #58
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nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
What NO ONE has mentioned yet is going from +4dBu into a -10dBV gear and back again you will add to your noise floor, this is one GOOD reason to keep ALL levels the same after a certain point....

The same thing if you lower a fader too much and later have to bring that same signal back up for processing you will add more noise...
How quiet everything is at the beginning makes a big difference.
Old 2nd November 2008 | Show parent
  #59
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memphisindie's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
That is why the original poster was trying to get his board to input and output at +4.
Old 2nd November 2008 | Show parent
  #60
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FeatheredSerpent's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Ah yes, the point. Sorry for the irrelevant hijack
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