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Seal Crazy
Old 8th May 2006
  #1
Seal Crazy

Hi all...

Okay okay I admit it, I am old school. I don't know a lick about drum programming and I am having a hard time here.

I am producing a song that I hear drums allot like the sounds on the first 2 Seal albums. Yes I know Trevor Horn etc. I am not looking to sound like Seal, I am just looking for the looped kind of drum sound that is used on Crazy and some other songs on the first 2 albums.

What software is good for this? I am not talking about getting the exact sounds that Trevor and Seal got, I am looking for something that will let me program loops like that. And I have Reaktor5 now but nothing there is helping, mostly because I have no freaking clue what I am doing.

heh
Old 8th May 2006
  #2
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Hi all...

Okay okay I admit it, I am old school. I don't know a lick about drum programming and I am having a hard time here.

I am producing a song that I hear drums allot like the sounds on the first 2 Seal albums. Yes I know Trevor Horn etc. I am not looking to sound like Seal, I am just looking for the looped kind of drum sound that is used on Crazy and some other songs on the first 2 albums.

What software is good for this? I am not talking about getting the exact sounds that Trevor and Seal got, I am looking for something that will let me program loops like that. And I have Reaktor5 now but nothing there is helping, mostly because I have no freaking clue what I am doing.

heh

A lot of the drums were played live and then chopped up.


And if you look at the credits he used the best musicians the world had to offer at the time.

Like a lot of Trevor's productions he would record tons and tons of takes and then chop them up and add sequenced parts for the best feel.


That's what makes the sound so unique.


Its not really programmed and its not really live.



Somewhere in between.



Programs you can check out are probably Stylus RMX and Live for some starter patterns to muck around with.


Add Reaktor beats on top.


That's kinda the way i produce as well.
Old 8th May 2006 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i always loved the softness how the drums were played on those records.
this really requires a great drummer whos over the " playing as much as possible " attitude
Old 8th May 2006 | Show parent
  #4
Deleted c40a31f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
A lot of the drums were played live and then chopped up.
And if you look at the credits he used the best musicians the world had to offer at the time.

Like a lot of Trevor's productions he would record tons and tons of takes and then chop them up and add sequenced parts for the best feel. That's what makes the sound so unique. Its not really programmed and its not really live. Somewhere in between.

Programs you can check out are probably Stylus RMX and Live for some starter patterns to muck around with. Add Reaktor beats on top.
Also check out http://www.drumcore.com/
Old 8th May 2006 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Nut
 
Ricky's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
As thrillfactor so ritely pointed out
A lot of the drums were played live and then chopped up.

That record was loops and passages that were played and reseqenced on the fairlight and s1100's.
Mad organ sound too

I gad the pleasure of seeing him play Crazy acoustically when he was down in Australia promoting the record and it was absolutly amasing!!! What a Voice

I use Logic, which has the exs sapler, Ultrabeat with Guru and the Mach 5 sampler.
I think that you should check out BFD.
Old 8th May 2006 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
A lot of the drums on the Crazy album sound like machine samples (909 hybrid etc).
Of course there are lots of layers and real drumming on top - Le Blanc is an expert at this.
I would suggest something like Stylus. You can mix and match 'house' and 'electro' sounds with other Spectrasonics libraries like 'Backbeat'.
Old 8th May 2006 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
For hybrid live drumming/programming you can also check out the following sample CD's :
Martijn.
Old 8th May 2006 | Show parent
  #8
D K
Lives for gear
 
D K's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
My friend Earl Harvin played drums for Seal for a long time

Sick Drummer - Probably an even better Jazz player

Great feel - What I love about playing with Earl is that he actually plays songs instead of beats

Check out the last two albums - Terrific work
Old 8th May 2006 | Show parent
  #9
Thanks guys way cool.

Actually I always had a feeling that they were part live and part loops / samples. Seals stuff is always interesting because of this.

I love the production on the whole but the drums are so strange. I still love them but I don't know what they really sound like..... does that make sense?

It is almost like the drums are an atmospheric element more than the foundation of the song like they would be on most pop and rock records. I think because the drums have this quality there is more room for all the other textures in the production that would probably get lost with bigger drums. I love that for Seals music.... it would not work with all productions but for his stuff, especially the first 2 CDs I think it fits hand in glove.
Old 8th May 2006 | Show parent
  #10
Oh, I should add that what I am looking for is software that will let me make the drum loop. I already have the "beat" for the song that I played on live drums but the sound that I am looking for is more... ambient (like I said above).. like Seals drums.

The software I get needs to be easy to program (because I don't really want to spend all my time learning software and not creating music) and it needs to be able to do the exact beat I have in my head for this song.

I know it is a stupid question but will Drum Core or Stylus RMX let me do this?
Old 8th May 2006 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Oh, I should add that what I am looking for is software that will let me make the drum loop. I already have the "beat" for the song that I played on live drums but the sound that I am looking for is more... ambient (like I said above).. like Seals drums.
The ambient nature is done in the mix.


And i disagree in one respect, the drums on "Crazy" are pretty bombastic.


And equally creative and dynamic on "Killer".



I had the CD with the Crazy single and remixes and you could really hear the different perspectives when mixed by different guys(my favorite of the remixes was Brian Malouf's).
Old 8th May 2006 | Show parent
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
The ambient nature is done in the mix.


And i disagree in one respect, the drums on "Crazy" are pretty bombastic.


And equally creative and dynamic on "Killer".



I had the CD with the Crazy single and remixes and you could really hear the different perspectives when mixed by different guys(my favorite of the remixes was Brian Malouf's).
I agree with all the above... It does seem like the tones they started with are a little less in your face. Crazy is a little more drum heavy.... actually I should have said more like the drums for the 2nd CD. With the exception of maybe 2 or 3 tracks (Kiss From a Rose for instance) the drums are very subdued.

Oh and I never heard the remixes, that would be interesting. Is that avaliable?

That thing that is interesting about the drums is they are not in your face but they are not washed in reverb or sound like they are coming from room mics. They sound like close mics just mellow. Maybe they used blast rods on the drums (I had not thought of that untill now) but really they almost sound like triggers.
Old 8th May 2006 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I think the drums are mixed with the close mics to the fore. The rooms at SARM generally had a nice ambience, maybe they recorded some of the drums in a smaller room.
Lets not forget the role of Steve Lipson! In my experience (1989/90) Lipson played an equal role, especially programming and playing a lot of the instruments.
One of the things with Horn & Lipson, they were not afraid to throw a few things at a song. If you listen to the 'Crazy' album, there are often 3 or 4 snare sounds on some songs, several different hi-hat parts, real drums playing alongside programmed electronics.
Old 9th May 2006 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
zarembo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
The ambient nature is done in the mix.


And i disagree in one respect, the drums on "Crazy" are pretty bombastic.


And equally creative and dynamic on "Killer".



I had the CD with the Crazy single and remixes and you could really hear the different perspectives when mixed by different guys(my favorite of the remixes was Brian Malouf's).

I was always fond of the 'Do you know the way to LA' mix

can't remember who mixed that one.

god I love me some Seal and Trevor Horn.

sigh.
Old 9th May 2006 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarembo
I was always fond of the 'Do you know the way to LA' mix

can't remember who mixed that one.

god I love me some Seal and Trevor Horn.

sigh.
Brian Malouf.
Old 13th July 2008 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
mdjice's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
wrong thread
Old 13th July 2008 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Dirty Halo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
To try and help out the original question...

There WAS a loop that help the main beat together in that song.

Yes, Keith Le Blance played on that album, and funny enough he has his own sample CD of the the same name

So, I BELIEVE, what you are hearing is a mix of the breakbeat loop (I even found where that loop came from somewhere in my loop library) and then Trevor SEEMS to have reinforced the kicks with an 808 or 809 for tight punch (the tick attack of the loop's kick and thump of the 808 tuned deep or 909).

Then, either he rounded out with live parts, but even those were sampled and re-played, because that fill is always the same.

Any patter sample based plug can do it, but for feel, an MPC (Trevor was using Akais then... who knows, maybe still the Synclavier)

Either way, the feel is that breakbeat loop with added kicks and live-ish parts around it.


Hope that helps.

-Andrews



P.S. Coincidentally Brian Malouf was the first person from RCA to try and sign us... he was A&R, but I think missed producing and went back to it, even his Roxxette work sounded like that. AMAZING!
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