The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Gain-staging and plug-ins
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #31
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixocalypse ➡️
My question is, did you try to work this way yet? proper gain staging.

And why do you insist on working the other way... What's your benefit ?
Is this directed at me?

To quote a poster on KVR, where I started the same topic (which I hope isn't considered bad form):

'I feel it is a good habit to control gain levels between plugins just like in the analog world.

If you keep levels justbelow 0dbfs between plugins you can get a very similar sound when bypassing individual FX in a plugin chain, even compressors which act different based on incoming levels.

After each plug, adjust the makeup gain to match the unprocessed audio.'


My only addition is the word 'just'. Simply seems much tidier.

My point isn't that 0db peak before fader is a supreme way of mixing. Rather, it is the same amount of work as any other formula of ITB gain staging, and works just as good.

Take a soft synth, for example. The output will likely be up around 0db peak. This way it can be matched without needing to adress the RMS output.
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #32
Registered User
 
camus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morten ➡️
My point being: these are sensible levels.
Do you do this professionally?
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #33
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by camus ➡️
Do you do this professionally?
No.
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #34
Registered User
 
camus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morten ➡️
No.
Ok. Carry on.
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #35
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by camus ➡️
Do you do this professionally?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morten ➡️
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by camus ➡️
Ok. Carry on.
lol
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #36
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morten ➡️
Is this directed at me?

Simply seems much tidier.

My point isn't that 0db peak before fader is a supreme way of mixing. Rather, it is the same amount of work as any other formula of ITB gain staging, and works just as good.

Are you recording so your tracks peak at 0dbfs, or are you normalising after the event?
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #37
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morten ➡️
Is this directed at me?

To quote a poster on KVR, where I started the same topic (which I hope isn't considered bad form):

'I feel it is a good habit to control gain levels between plugins just like in the analog world.

If you keep levels justbelow 0dbfs between plugins you can get a very similar sound when bypassing individual FX in a plugin chain, even compressors which act different based on incoming levels.

After each plug, adjust the makeup gain to match the unprocessed audio.'


My only addition is the word 'just'. Simply seems much tidier.

My point isn't that 0db peak before fader is a supreme way of mixing. Rather, it is the same amount of work as any other formula of ITB gain staging, and works just as good.

Take a soft synth, for example. The output will likely be up around 0db peak. This way it can be matched without needing to adress the RMS output.
There is a huge difference between 0dbfs and 0db. About 18-20db difference. If you were recording an analogue synth pad it would be below 0db (VU meter) most of the time which translates to about -18dbfs in your DAW and in the mix you would still most likely be pulling the fader down.
Recording things with smooth transients peaking at 0dbfs is ridiculously unnecessary.
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #38
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedsMoreFuzz ➡️
Are you recording so your tracks peak at 0dbfs, or are you normalising after the event?
It should be called "un-normalizing" cause there is nothing "normal" about that process with proper gain staging. This shouldn't even be open for discussion anymore. Anyone telling you to normalize already hot tracks should not be involved with recording in any way.
By hot tracks I mean anything recorded 24 bit digitally peaking at -6dbfs.
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #39
Registered User
 
kooz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimel ➡️
Anyone telling you to normalize already hot tracks should not be involved with recording in any way.
thumbsup thumbsup Why did I have to come from the factory with only 2 thumbs?
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #40
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
I mix by using trim plugs on every tracks and leaving the faders at zero. I've noticed a difference in the quality of my mixes since taking this approach.

HOWEVER, I think the difference has more to do with the way I pay attention and focus on the mix with the trims than with faders. As stated earlier, it also allows for finer adjustments on the fader when need and makes automation easier to work with (visually).

I think ANY different approach will change the quality of your work. "Mixing With Your Mind" explains it as left brain, right brain stuff. I think that's completely true.

I'd LOOOOVVVVEEEE to be able to argue with null tests like Ethan's...but you just can't. Somehow it works out even when you think it shouldn't. Science is science.
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #41
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimel ➡️
It should be called "un-normalizing" cause there is nothing "normal" about that process with proper gain staging. This shouldn't even be open for discussion anymore. Anyone telling you to normalize already hot tracks should not be involved with recording in any way.
By hot tracks I mean anything recorded 24 bit digitally peaking at -6dbfs.
Mate --- look at my previous posts in this thread ---- I'm very much against the approach outlined by the OP, and have been trying to extoll the virtues of proper gain staging!
Yes, I agree, the term used for the process is unfortunate, and if you read my posts, you will see that I am in no way advocating the practice ----- the reason I was asking was I wanted to know if the OP was recording with peaks hitting 0dfbs (ie --- hitting his converter hard) or weather he was leaving an appropriate margin, and then normalizing tracks after recording. I am well aware of the benefits of proper gain staging
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #42
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] ➡️
I mix by using trim plugs on every tracks and leaving the faders at zero. I've noticed a difference in the quality of my mixes since taking this approach.

HOWEVER, I think the difference has more to do with the way I pay attention and focus on the mix with the trims than with faders. As stated earlier, it also allows for finer adjustments on the fader when need and makes automation easier to work with (visually).

I think ANY different approach will change the quality of your work. "Mixing With Your Mind" explains it as left brain, right brain stuff. I think that's completely true.

I'd LOOOOVVVVEEEE to be able to argue with null tests like Ethan's...but you just can't. Somehow it works out even when you think it shouldn't. Science is science.

Hmmmm, is it just me, or does this not even begin to make sense?
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #43
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedsMoreFuzz ➡️
Hmmmm, is it just me, or does this not even begin to make sense?
Let me clarify...

Before I begin to do a mix, I prep the tracks by using a trim plugin and adjust the levels down appropriatley and find a balance via the trim plugs fader. This acts as a gain staging before hitting the other plugs. The actual track faders remain at zero at this point and only get adjusted for minute adjustments later on in the mixing process.

Soundwise I do not believe there's any difference to me dropping the trim fader 10db or dropping the tracks fader 10db. What I do believe is that I end up working the mix differently with the prep process than if I just jump into it guns a blazin' and slap on EQs and comps right away and adjust the faders to taste. Different approachs will yeild different results since there's no step by step instructions on how to mix.

So to relate it back to the point, I believe that setting up "proper gain staging" in a DAW does NOT change the sound BECAUSE of the gain staging itself, but rather the approach you bring to the table.
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #44
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedsMoreFuzz ➡️
Hmmmm, is it just me, or does this not even begin to make sense?
?

How does that not make sense?

He is saying setting the general/rough level on the trims then doing the fine tuning/automation on the faders. Just like many would do with a tape machine and a console.

I prefer to TRACK so that the rough mix is all faders at unity but thats just me.

Remember that gainstaging is wayyy more important when working in the professional standard PTHD... lots more things that can clip there than on PTLE/Logic/Cubase whatever....

Proper gainstaging is a great habit to get into and will help your mixes translate when going from room to room... a mix on PTLE that isn't clipped may have some serious distortion when moved to PTHD.

Just a thought!
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #45
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] ➡️
Let me clarify...

Before I begin to do a mix, I prep the tracks by using a trim plugin and adjust the levels down appropriatley and find a balance via the trim plugs fader. This acts as a gain staging before hitting the other plugs. The actual track faders remain at zero at this point and only get adjusted for minute adjustments later on in the mixing process.
Yes, I understand what you're doing, but here's the problem (as I see it): The fact that you're "prepping the tracks" by inserting a trim plugin before you start applying further processing says to me that you consider the tracks to be recorded too hot (especially if you're regularly having to drop tracks by -10!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] ➡️
Soundwise I do not believe there's any difference to me dropping the trim fader 10db or dropping the tracks fader 10db.
I totally agree --- assuming you only have a trim plugin on the track, then yes, there would be no sonic difference between dropping 10db on it, and dropping 10db on the channel fader.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] ➡️
What I do believe is that I end up working the mix differently with the prep process than if I just jump into it guns a blazin' and slap on EQs and comps right away and adjust the faders to taste. Different approachs will yeild different results since there's no step by step instructions on how to mix.

So to relate it back to the point, I believe that setting up "proper gain staging" in a DAW does NOT change the sound BECAUSE of the gain staging itself, but rather the approach you bring to the table.

This brings me back to the point I have made above ------ my point is that you shouldn't have to use these trim plugins in the first place --- if you were recording with sensible levels in the first place (somewhere round -18dbfs RMS to maybe -12 peak you wouldn't feel the need to later trim all your channels down by 5, 10, 12 db or whatever. By recording with this kinda level into the DAW in the first place, you're also ensuring you aren't running the risk of clipping your converters on the way in too



---- Obviously, if you're mixing other peoples' stuff, you don't get to choose the level they record at, and I have absolutely no problem using a trim plugin there if I need to --- but if you're tracking it yourself, then why not make life easy?
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #46
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Brown ➡️
?

How does that not make sense?

He is saying setting the general/rough level on the trims then doing the fine tuning/automation on the faders. Just like many would do with a tape machine and a console.

I prefer to TRACK so that the rough mix is all faders at unity but thats just me.

Remember that gainstaging is wayyy more important when working in the professional standard PTHD... lots more things that can clip there than on PTLE/Logic/Cubase whatever....

Proper gainstaging is a great habit to get into and will help your mixes translate when going from room to room... a mix on PTLE that isn't clipped may have some serious distortion when moved to PTHD.

Just a thought!

I understand the method he was describing Mike --- what I didn't understand is why someone would work this way if they were also tracking a project -- ie, recording really hot, and then dragging everything down later with trim plugs, (which, from reading the OP's post, I assumed this was the case). Like, I say, obviously, if it's been tracked elsewhere, then yes, using trims in that way is useful of course

It's difficult to know exactly in what sense everyone is talking about --- if we're talking from a purely mixing point of view (ie, you didn't track it) then yeah,, if the thing's too hot, pull it down with a trim plug. But if we're talking about something you've tracked, then imho, if you're doing it right, you shouldn't need the trims.
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #47
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
I hope this isn't off topic, but I've notice that my Sonnox plugins distort very easily. Are they NOT 32 bit float? Waves and all the rest sound great even when the red clip light is on.

I do remember a project in Nuendo that sounded like crap, so I lowered the levels on all the tracks and that cleaned it up nicely. In that case even in a 32 bit floating point environment bad gain staging can cause problems.


~Jay
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #48
Registered User
 
Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
to track with conservative levels or not, what comes to my mind:
Yes -
a) analog stage get´s nasty
b) you getting into danger with overshots
No -
a) limiter equipped converters
b) the converter clip approach
c) sound behaviour around -3dbfs on some buotique designs
d) you want to use the full bit range of your converter

there, i got a real problem in understanding, maybe someone can clear this up, thanks!

if iuse a 16 bit resolutution, i got -32760 to +32760 in bits to represent a signal (0dbfs)
-6dbfs : -16380 to +16380
it seems that i got more values with a 0dbfs signal and that i loose the half of values each -6dbfs
let´s make it more easy: 64.000values @ odbfs peak
32.000 values @ -6bfs peak
16.000 values @ - 12 dbfs peak
8.000 values @ -18dbfs peak

ok, let´s say i record peak at 0dbfs
the waveform will be "represented by" 64000 values, i just mean that the grid is much finer
if we record peak at -18dbfs...8000 values

now, what does the normalize function or a gain tool will do if we lower the 0dbfs signal by -6db?
it will lower each sample by -6db? it will -x any value or?

i mean still you i the more precise grid (it will lower any value by -16.000values)?
32.000 gets 16.000, 22.000 wil get -6.000...
if i record -6dbfs: 16380 to 8190...and so on

...and i will lower the noise floor also if i recorded "hotter"?
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #49
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Dutchman ➡️
a) limiter equipped converters
b) the converter clip approach
Hmm -- Now I know that some of the limiters on converters are pretty good --- but do you really want to have limiting applied during tracking that you can't remove?

Any maybe I'm just out of touch, but are people really clipping their converters on the way in??!! (or are you talking about softclipping? -- even so, is this commonplace, to be hitting a safety feature as a matter of course?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Dutchman ➡️
...and i will lower the noise floor also if i recorded "hotter"?
If you're recording at 24-bit, unless you're using some really noisy pres, you're not gonna really need to worry about noise floor. Unless you're tracking in a really good studio, with great isolation, the general background noise of your environment is gonna be louder than your noise floor....



Regarding your "grid" measurements --- the only way you're practically going to hear the difference is if you're recording extremely dynamic music, and then pretty much leaving it uncompressed during mixdown/mastering. With the vast majority of records nowadays, very little of that entire "grid" is actually being used (ie -- the dynamic range is often pretty damn small), so imo the benefits of not tracking ridiculously hot all the time far outweigh the drawback of "not using the full grid"....
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #50
Registered User
 
Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedsMoreFuzz ➡️
Hmm -- Now I know that some of the limiters on converters are pretty good --- but do you really want to have limiting applied during tracking that you can't remove?

Any maybe I'm just out of touch, but are people really clipping their converters on the way in??!!



If you're recording at 24-bit, unless you're using some really noisy pres, you're not gonna really need to worry about noise floor. Unless you're tracking in a really good studio, with great isolation, the general background noise of your environment is gonna be louder than your noise floor....
I don´t know if it´s not cool to use AD implemented limiting, i never used it.
I think it´s just like a normal limiter, so why not imo.
From what i read, there are people who like it, i think there must be a reason.
I use comps in and tape compression, too, so i think that limiting could be cool, too. When i was younger, is also thought that i should be carefull with compression the way in, well, i still am. I split the mic pre and have a "secure" way in and a "sound" way in with compression, tape and EQ mostely filters before compressor).
If i comp after tape ill raise the tape noise floor and so on...
ok, i got better and mostely use the "sound" way in
it´s more fun, too imo

I read that clipping the converters the way in is a technique some mastering guys use. there was defenetly not íntended to use a limiter build in the converter. If a snare peaks out all the time, they clip it, i think, and than it´s just some distorting on a snare. I think they don´t use it on programm material. Well, i tried on my own an didn´t like it very mucgh. Analog clipping is cool, but i don´t know if an ADDA is the best tool for it. I think it will strongly depend on the converter and that i havent got the best converter for this, dunno.

i read this often, that 24-bit in i shouldn´t worry.
but why should i spend so much values on nothing?
if i use 24 bit and -18dfs it´s like a 16 bit with 0dbfs?
should converters be set to -6dbfs is 0dbu, or 0dbu is 0dbfs?
i´m really corious about this and i have to admit that i don´t understand it 100%, sorry
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #51
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedsMoreFuzz ➡️
Mate --- look at my previous posts in this thread ---- I'm very much against the approach outlined by the OP, and have been trying to extoll the virtues of proper gain staging!
Yes, I agree, the term used for the process is unfortunate, and if you read my posts, you will see that I am in no way advocating the practice ----- the reason I was asking was I wanted to know if the OP was recording with peaks hitting 0dfbs (ie --- hitting his converter hard) or weather he was leaving an appropriate margin, and then normalizing tracks after recording. I am well aware of the benefits of proper gain staging
Sorry, I should have clarified I wasn't directing my comment at you.
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #52
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Yeah, I do know of mastering guys clipping their converters (it's pretty common in certain genres these days) but I don't think I've heard of people doing it while tracking..... I know there are certain converter that are favored by the mastering guys, because of the way they clip when pushed, but yeah, I'm really not a fan of it, cos at the end of the day, it's still hard-clipping a mix...

While hitting and AD's safety limiter now and again for effect might be cool(maybe on a snare, etc) --- doing it as a matter of course is surely not a good habit to get into? I don't really compress on the way in that often (too poor to afford nice outboard.....) but I have plenty of times before, and yeah, if it gets you the sound you're after, it's cool. But I've always been cautious with the amount of compression I'm using on the way in, cos of course, you can't take it away after the fact..


With the whole levels thing ---- if you record everything really hot -- when you come to mix, you end up either having to pull most of the channel fader waaaay down, or pull the master fader down (or use a trim plug) ---- while you're working away on your mix at 24-bit, you can cane the mixbus into teh red all you want, but at the end of the day, when you want to put the track on a cd, you can't go over 0dbfs. Like I was saying earlier, I just don't see why you would make life difficult for yourself by recording things so much hotter than they need to be?

I, like prob 95% of people like me, was guilty of this when I moved from recording on tape, to a DAW --- but I found when I did a little research and experimentation, that if I readjusted my thinking about "correct" levels a little, and backed the recording levels off a little, that tracks sounded better, and were sooooo much easier to mix. I honestly don't know enough of the maths etc behind it, but I do know that I prefer to work that way,tracking with my peaks down around -14, -16, whatever----- you don't have to worry that a loud snare hit is going to accidently clip your converter, and you don't have to faff around with trim plugins -- you can just get on with the mix.

Anyways, this is all just my highly subjective opinion, and I'm sure many people will think I'm wrong, but hey,, that's what makes what we do so interesting
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #53
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimel ➡️
Sorry, I should have clarified I wasn't directing my comment at you.
Ahhh, no probs mate ---- I did wonder!
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #54
Lives for gear
 
DaVogi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Dutchman ➡️
should converters be set to -6dbfs is 0dbu, or 0dbu is 0dbfs?
i´m really corious about this and i have to admit that i don´t understand it 100%, sorry
no, 0dBu should be -18dBfs....

you wouldn't drive an anlog console all the time on all the channels with +10dbU or more, so why you do that with a DAW where the border between clean signal and ugly distortion is much thinner than analog gear?!
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #55
LPK
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morten ➡️
Ethan, thanks. Yet how come people on here insist that gain staging is a big issue in digital?
Because they just have no clue, what they're talking about.
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #56
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by morten ➡️
keeping everything itb (with things handled by 32-bit floating processing) all we have to watch is the peak level on the master.
from the gospel of common sense!!!

i suppose if a plugin has some kind of 'saturation' modelling how hard you hit it would matter - but you gotta understand that your DAW's meters when working in 24-bit show you the dbfs output AT 24-bit...not 32
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #57
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LPK ➡️
Because they just have no clue, what they're talking about.
Or they are talking about DAW's where gain-staging does in-fact matter.
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #58
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
lol,,, I can see that this is gonna run and run......
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #59
Registered User
 
Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedsMoreFuzz ➡️
Yeah, I do know of mastering guys clipping their converters (it's pretty common in certain genres these days) but I don't think I've heard of people doing it while tracking..... I know there are certain converter that are favored by the mastering guys, because of the way they clip when pushed, but yeah, I'm really not a fan of it, cos at the end of the day, it's still hard-clipping a mix...

While hitting and AD's safety limiter now and again for effect might be cool(maybe on a snare, etc) --- doing it as a matter of course is surely not a good habit to get into? I don't really compress on the way in that often (too poor to afford nice outboard.....) but I have plenty of times before, and yeah, if it gets you the sound you're after, it's cool. But I've always been cautious with the amount of compression I'm using on the way in, cos of course, you can't take it away after the fact..


With the whole levels thing ---- if you record everything really hot -- when you come to mix, you end up either having to pull most of the channel fader waaaay down, or pull the master fader down (or use a trim plug) ---- while you're working away on your mix at 24-bit, you can cane the mixbus into teh red all you want, but at the end of the day, when you want to put the track on a cd, you can't go over 0dbfs. Like I was saying earlier, I just don't see why you would make life difficult for yourself by recording things so much hotter than they need to be?

I, like prob 95% of people like me, was guilty of this when I moved from recording on tape, to a DAW --- but I found when I did a little research and experimentation, that if I readjusted my thinking about "correct" levels a little, and backed the recording levels off a little, that tracks sounded better, and were sooooo much easier to mix. I honestly don't know enough of the maths etc behind it, but I do know that I prefer to work that way,tracking with my peaks down around -14, -16, whatever----- you don't have to worry that a loud snare hit is going to accidently clip your converter, and you don't have to faff around with trim plugins -- you can just get on with the mix.

Anyways, this is all just my highly subjective opinion, and I'm sure many people will think I'm wrong, but hey,, that's what makes what we do so interesting
optos clip nice
cheap outboard compressors are nice imo, comp54, overstayer, rnc, fmr in general, diy 1176/etc. .. not much money and it has a sound imo (i really try out to find this at some software i bought... and i first thought it´s great)
rnc to tape and done, no worries imo, maybe parrallel comp/distortion later or whatever and done.. i mean done..not 5 plugs in a track, just done
i record really hot (i use UA 21192 for overdubs and the analog circuit does some nice things in the yellow imo,)
ok, in daw, before i gon on, i normalize every track to avoid overs to analog
than i go on
maybe it can be done better , i dont know
well, maybe the plugs are done to get conservative levels
hm
of course it a personal thing and that´s cool imo
i still wonder about this math thing
thanks for sharing!
cheers
Old 6th December 2010 | Show parent
  #60
Registered User
 
Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaVogi ➡️
no, 0dBu should be -18dBfs....

you wouldn't drive an anlog console all the time on all the channels with +10dbU or more, so why you do that with a DAW where the border between clean signal and ugly distortion is much thinner than analog gear?!
hm
if i would keep my analog at normal levels, like 4dbu and i would calibrate my converter to 4dbu is 0dbfs, than my desk/preamp/whatever would stay at normal operation level and my converter would use the whole bit depth
maybe some headroom
maybe 4du is -6bfs?
dunno
really
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 4624 views: 654231
Avatar for mxeryus
mxeryus 15th November 2022
replies: 59 views: 27145
Avatar for Aurasphere
Aurasphere 8th November 2019
replies: 443 views: 60972
Avatar for Neil Martin
Neil Martin 14th February 2021
replies: 2058 views: 193383
Avatar for engmix
engmix 1 week ago
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump