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QUESTION part1
Old 3rd June 2002
  #1
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5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
QUESTION part1

hi jules

i am thinking about changing my system into protools only .
i know that you are experienced whith that situation .
so it would be great to have your input on my questions .

i am running right now a " tiny pt " d24 system on a g3/266 .
i want to add a expansion chassis and some dsp power .
hd is no option for me in fact of $$$ .
so i have to stick to the mix series , which is not a problem at all .
same thing about " the sound " discussion .
i know there may be better sounding gear , but again :
its over my budget , i am unused to it and i dont have that much space .

i simply wanna go on record & edit music in a comfortable way .
i like what i can do with PT and Logic . so i´ll stick to it .

i am running 2*888/24 converters .
i know i´ll need two outputs to monitor my sessions .
so i´ll have 16 ins and 14 outs to connect exterenal gear .
how much dsp power do i need to create a mixer setting like that ??? i have some fx boxes like pcm91 , ams 1580 , tc 1210 , h3000 , too . it would be really helpfull to know how much dsp power the configuration " eats " .

888a: 1-2 stereo out , 3-8 (i/o) external hardware
888b: 1-8 ( i/o ) external hardware

if i am running f.ex. 32 tracks how much more dsp do i need to work comfortable with
plugins . i have nothing against bouncing , but its hard to tell if a piece of music fits in the puzzle
if i am just able to open one equalizer . so i need at least a setup where i can process f.ex. " all the drums " .
so it would be great to have some headroom in fact of dsp power .

next one , is where can i connect my stereo outs to ??? i read your thread about that
monitor unit you are using . thats kind of expensive . in fact of i need the i/os for external devices i´ll
only have a stereo pair running to the device .

what i want to connect :

monitors 1032a , ns10m , headphones , externals like cd-player , dat , etc. , external meters ,
(i need basically a full - monitor section )

next thing i am kind of confused about :

how do i do monitormixes with PT only , how to use a talkback mic in an environment like this .
would be great if you could explain how to do this in a comfortable way .
its a must to have a good " communication " setup , with the artist in the next room .

for my keyboards i will probably add a 1622 . is this unit good ??? i like the sound of the 888s .
opinions .

what about the clock . f.ex. connecting the pcm 91 via aes to the interfaces can the 888s generate a
wordclock signal ??? ( or is it superclock only ) . is it really necessary to have a unit like the usd ???
or does it work if i clock all my digital gear with the 888s ?


if you have a minute it would be great if you could give me a helping hand on this .

thanks yall , peace









okk
Old 3rd June 2002
  #2
OK



1) Look for a Second hand Mix + stuff, I am satisfied with a Mix core, 4 Mix Farms and one Vintage (old d24 era) card..

I would start with:

Mix core
Mix Farm
Mix Farm
Then look for second hand Farm bargains..

How many slots do you have in the Exp chassis? Make sure it will be OK to accept the Mix style cards!

2) Try this http://www.mercenary.com/colaudm3pasc.html

3) All the gear you have hooked up to the interfaces via AES will get clock OK from the interfaces.. but you should clock those with an ext clock device, like a Nanosyncs from Rosendahl, or a Gen X from Lucid Technologies.. EVERYTHING will benefit then IT WILL ALL - get the 'good clock'! okk

Old 4th June 2002
  #3
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5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
thanks jules for your comments on this .
if i have the $$$ i´ll try this ( takes a while ) smokin
what i am interrested in , too ...
how do you do your headphone mixes with PT only ?
can you solo a effect channel ( damn how does this work ) ?
have you ever tried to sync logic for midi & PT for audio ( damn again ) ?

any other opinions some of you want to share ,
would be great to hear something about PT only !!!

peace
Old 5th June 2002
  #4
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by 5down1up
thanks jules for your comments on this .
if i have the $$$ i´ll try this ( takes a while ) smokin
what i am interrested in , too ...
how do you do your headphone mixes with PT only ?
can you solo a effect channel ( damn how does this work ) ?
have you ever tried to sync logic for midi & PT for audio ( damn again ) ?

any other opinions some of you want to share ,
would be great to hear something about PT only !!!

peace
headphone mixes in ProTools .... one way to do it is create a send on every channel say to output 3/4 of your first 888. outputs 3/4 go into the heaphone amplifier and you can now create a headphone mix .... or several different headphone mixes if you want .... sends assigned to output 5/6 and so on ....

can you solo an effect channel .... of course you can

I used to sync logic for midi to Protools for audio before PT5.0. I used 2 seperate macs though ... the logic mac had all the midi gear attached to it and PT was master ... logic synced to mtc. worked great ... virtually no locking time. I'm not a big fan of running both softs at the same time on the same computer ... so if you realy want to go logic for midi and PT for audio I would suggest a seperate mac for logic ... doesn't need to be anything fancy ... and old 7300 will do for example. I would on the other hand strongly reccomend the all in one environment. Both logic and PT are great softs. Seen logic 5 and it is very impressive indeed. either get used working with midi in PT (which is just fine for me ... but hey ... ) or working with audio in logic.
Old 5th June 2002
  #5
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: QUESTION part1

Quote:
Originally posted by 5down1up


what i want to connect :

monitors 1032a , ns10m , headphones , externals like cd-player , dat , etc. , external meters ,
(i need basically a full - monitor section )

okk

how about a patch bay


Quote:
Originally posted by 5down1up

next thing i am kind of confused about :

how do i do monitormixes with PT only , how to use a talkback mic in an environment like this .
would be great if you could explain how to do this in a comfortable way .
its a must to have a good " communication " setup , with the artist in the next room .
okk
plenty of possibilities there ... do you intend to use an external mixer ??? maybe if you're going to an all PT studio setup you might look into some controller options ... some of those HUI / ProControl ... have monitor / talkback sections on there ready to use. I suppose you could allways setup a mic in the studio ... create an aux input for that mic and send it to your headphones .... muting and unmuting it whenever you need it. but it seems like a hassle that way ....


Quote:
Originally posted by 5down1up

for my keyboards i will probably add a 1622 . is this unit good ??? i like the sound of the 888s .
opinions .
okk
the 1622 is fine for keyboards imho ... especially if you're on a budget.


Quote:
Originally posted by 5down1up

what about the clock . f.ex. connecting the pcm 91 via aes to the interfaces can the 888s generate a
wordclock signal ??? ( or is it superclock only ) . is it really necessary to have a unit like the usd ???
or does it work if i clock all my digital gear with the 888s ?
okk

ah .... wordclock and daws ..... can't stress it enough ..... it is what determines how good or bad your setup is going to sound. also plenty of possibilities here .... aardvark / rosendahl / genex / ... but for now you should be fine having PT master / internal sync.
Digital outboard does not accept superclock ... they often even don't have a seperate WC input. but they will sync to aes. So in case of your PCM 91 you should set the pcm91 digital sync to incoming aes.


hope this helps and if any further questions .... shoot away .... spin spin
Old 5th June 2002
  #6
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5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
thank you chris for your input . i light one up for you smokin hehe

my part of the music is to create it and maybe to mix it if theres no budget for a mixing session . PT wouldnt be my 1st choice at all , but anything else is out of reach ( even PT is a big investment imho ) . anything i´ve heard so far musicalwise that was done in PT only was crap . but i blame it on the people who did those mixes . i really like the tone my black strat sounds like when i am playing and i heard other people playing on it like .......... .
anyway , sound isnt that big deal for me , its just about the music . if the music is cool it will sound cool on a tape deck . so i am really happy with the features PT provides . the money you have to spend on session players ( if u find the right ones ) is most times over the budget , so i need the computer and its simulations ( sounds , samples , etc ) . i am not that lucky with that situation , but thats another story .
on the other side , if i would own tons of gear , i would get confused . took a long time to handle 32 tracks ( and i am not even through ... hehe ) . thats why i need a " simple " setup , sit on my chair , and do my thing . right now i own a 32 channel mixing desk with some outboard , keys etc . 4*96 bantam patches are organizing the wiring . thats to complicated especially if you have to work on several projects . so i would like to connect all my stuff to PT and turn it on okk
i dont like the PT midi features at all . my atari was better on that .
thats why i would like to do PT audio and Logic midi . a old mac isnt that expensive , thats a good option .
so thats why anyones input would be great to hear .


how do you solo an auxinput ( f.ex. my pcm91 ??? ) ... damn ...

cyall
Old 9th June 2002
  #7
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5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
come on yall , maybe thats not the most exciting topic , but any input will be helpful ...

piss
Old 10th June 2002
  #8
Use a seperate computer for Logic, good idea, solo, headphones ALL POSSIBLE!

ANY MORE QUESTIONS?



Old 10th June 2002
  #9
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
and to solo that aux input you pre fade your sends to that aux input. then you hit the solo button and all pre fade signals can be heard .....

what else .????


rollz rollz okk
Old 10th June 2002
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Soloing an aux return is a bit of a kludge. The simplest and most accurate way is to control-click the solo button on the channels that are sending to the aux, putting them in solo-isolate, then solo the aux return channel.
Old 11th June 2002
  #11
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littledog's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Here's how I set up cue mixes using Pro Tools.

I have two 888-24's, so I will refer to all the outputs as 1-16. When tracking, I send (for example) all the drum mics to outputs 1-2, all the bass tracks to 3-4, keyboards to 5-6, guitars to 7-8, horns to 9-10, vocals to 11-12, etc. Each of these stereo pairs are patched to a pair of channels on a small mixer with 6 pre-fader aux sends. Now I can easily set up 6 mono or 3 stereo mixes using the aux sends on the board. I can also easily solo the channels on the board to hear individual instruments without disrupting the cue mixes. I am using a Studiomaster Trilogy for this.

In fact, I have a second mixer (A&H Mixwizard) also with 6 aux sends with each channel connected to the same numbered channel on the Trilogy via the insert points. (Trilogy insert out to A&H line in). So, in fact, i can create 12 mono or 6 different stereo cue mixes. It may sound a bit awkward, but the mixers have small footprints (the A&H I actually rackmounted vertically) and cost less than $1000 each.

The convenience of being able to solo, and/or adjust the cue mixes to each individual's taste without dealing with software or touching a mouse is well worth the relatively minor expense. Having 6 sepearate stereo cue mixes is also a feature that musicians greatly appreciate.
Old 11th June 2002
  #12
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littledog's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: QUESTION part1

Quote:
Originally posted by 5down1up

how much dsp power do i need to create a mixer setting like that ??? i have some fx boxes like pcm91 , ams 1580 , tc 1210 , h3000 , too . it would be really helpfull to know how much dsp power the configuration " eats " .
Setting up analog or digital I/O's for outboard gear uses up only a tiny amount of DSP. You shouldn't have any problem with that.

It's the software plug-ins that can be DSP hogs. How much or little DSP a plug-in uses depends entirely on the type of plug in and the manufacturer. Some EQ's use very tiny amounts, while some reverbs use a whole chip, for example.
Old 14th June 2002
  #13
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
thx a lot littledog and all the others ...
thank you C.L i figured it out ( can it be that easy ??? )

i am still unsure which way to go ( i dont even have the $$$ right now ) . my basic thought was , replacing a mixer and all its wiring with a loaded mac ... thats what i would call an easy setup .
on the other hand ... i need a monitor section , some mic pres , some eqs etc. if i watch the average price level of some " ok " stuff ... this is gonna be expensive compared to what a " good " second hand mixer used to cost . so i guess theres not a solution for the " easy " setup ...
the digital stuff is kind of confusing , too ... i read posts like " analog channel " saved my mix , i dl it , tried it and ...
" sure its ok " but ... ???
theres so much discussion about that stuff . all the stuff i did so far with PT is " ok " ( i am not an eng. ) . all the stuff i have recorded and was mixed on a big desk by other eng. sounded the way you expect music should sound like . so i dont blame PT .
( those guys simply use it as a expensive playback engine ) .
like i said in a earlier post , my ears are " analog " . all the music i love , either sound or musicalwise was recorded analog .
thats what i call " sound " .
i have tracked drums with a tape machine and with PT .
i like the tape sound better . but thats the way it is .
i cannot do my work with tape , thats to time intensive and expensive , too . thats why my " compromise " is PT .
i received my 2nd 888 today , gonna set it up later and listen .

any more comments on this ???

thx yall , peace
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