So would I, but there are always going to be a few. There was a guy I remember (maybe not this thread) who said he mixed a well known music TV show *only* on headphones. That's one....

But this thread has been going on for twelve years and almost 6000 posts. In part because these types of abstract questions are generally NOT part of the discussion. Here people discuss frequency response, post charts and recommend brands. Most of the discussion is "this headphone vs that headphone". Not "headphones in general vs speakers".

All but the most ardent of headphone users will say things like: "my cranky neighbors" or "the baby is sleeping" or "my untreated room" "good speakers are expensive". IOW, excuses. Hardly anyone has a soundproofed room and a pair of ATCs and still chooses to mix on headphones. I suppose there will always be someone. And whether their mixes "translate" would be a matter of opinion. Their opinion, not yours - because you will probably never have the opportunity to compare their headphone mix against their speaker mix!


This thread is 12 years worth of people saying what they are using. Do you think that some reformulation of the age-old question is going to get you any "new" answers?

Because of BF I am thinking about getting new cans or/and sonarworks.

First thing i was wondering is what’s the reason people who didn’t like sonarworks and preferred Realphones, is if it’s because the correction curve or the filters?

Because as I will use sonarworks with my merging Anubis I won’t use the regular filters of sonarworks..
(Also remembering someone commented that around 40% of correction is a sweet spot in sonarworks)

My next question is if it would make sense to upgrade from my dt 880, 250ohm black edition (slightly different response) to the hd600 or even hd650 with correction?

I produce mostly electronic dance music and would like to use them to check the low end as well as translation, my monitors are Dutch & Dutch 8c but the room is not perfectly treated.. so I guess a second reference would be a good addition.

Happy for any advice!

Your 880 are pretty good except for the spike around 9k. You could even just EQ that out manually if you wanted. I doubt the Senns would be an upgrade.

Re: your room treatment, the first thing is to work with room placement of the speakers and your listening position. If you have flexibility there, the room treatment will be in a much better position to help. You'll need an SPL meter or measurement mic and test tones.

Holiday sale:

MASSDROP X SENNHEISER HD 6XX HEADPHONES
$179

https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-sennheiser-hd6xx?

I don't own them, but they should be the same as HD650 (MSRP $500)

Or

Sennheiser HD 650
$317

https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD.../dp/B00018MSNI

The 6xx works really well with Sonarworks IME.

I got my pair of Ollo S5X last week and was eager to compare them. I have had about 10 hours of listening to both.
Both were again driven by my Apollo Twins HP-Output.

Comfort
Material is the same with both. Clamping force has decreased a little with the S5X. The ear pad diameter on the other hand has increased and fits my ear slightly better.
The headband has been redesigned completely and is not self-adjusting anymore. That lowers the pressure of the headband against the head.
I find the S5X to be even more comfortable than the S4X.

Evaluation Tracks
Same as in my post Ollo S4X vs. AA Hi-X60...

Ollo S4X / Austrian Audio Hi-X60

...plus a few others. I am still working on a list of reference tracks...

Preamble
I love the S4X...but I feared their slightly foward sounding upper bass / lower mids might lead to wrong mix decisions. So I ordered the S5X when I got the S4X.
As has been said about FR-measurements - comparing different manufacturers measurements might not help a lot. In this case they are of course both by made by Ollo on the same test rig.
So they are very comparable....Thanks to Ozonepaul for making me aware of that pdf.

Ollo Measurements

It shows the S5X closer to a flat line in bass and lower mids. Also treble looks promising.
One big difference between both are the angled drivers in the S5X.
Rok (the founder) said, all changes were done to accomodate the different target curve for immersive audio mixing though stereo mixing on the S5X is no problem at all.

Sound
Both have the same Ollo House-Sound. No surprises at all.
The S5X sound very much as I expected them to after seeing the FR-Measurement - and more.
Bass / lower mids are more to my likening now, though a slight lift to the sub region makes them even more fun (I tried a +2dB shelve at 60 Hz).
Details are more easily detectable - even with the bass eq'd. Treble is great now. More air, more presence without being too loud or harsh.
Where I thought I might overcompensate with the S4X I don't think I will with these.
The biggest difference between both Ollos is depth. This might also be due to the angled drivers. Whereas the S4X are presenting everything quite upfront (like in a straight line in front of me), the S5X present instruments/voices in a more spatial manner. This makes the S5X slightly less engaging and a little less fun to listen to but for mixing I find that to be of invaluable importance for judging reverbs for example.

Conclusion
There are differences between both headphones. If you are doing immersive audio mixing the S5X seem to be the way to go. Up to now I haven't looked into that very much. Stereo is still enough of a challenge. Should you upgrade to the S5X?...I would at least recomment to test them.
Both are a joy to mix with. Had I not listened to the S5X I would not miss anything at all. But I am glad I did. Even though I sent the S4X back I may order a pair next year just because the differences between them are still big enough to justify having both......But before I do so I will have a listen to the Neumann NDH-30 as they might bring something to the table I haven't heard or thought of yet.
I think I understand Rok's reasoning for having both in production - the S4X for stereo and the S5X for immersive audio mixing. But personally the S5X suit me better and strengthen my confidence in mix decisions even more than the S4X.

Best regards
Daniel

I have tried my Ollo S5X as well. I overall agree with CE_Music: equilibrated frequency response, good dynamics, overall a good reference headphone for mixing, and almost certainly I would prefer them to HD600 (that I do not have anymore). Certainly preferable to the HD650 for mixing purposes. The clamp was excessive in my case, I didn't find them comfortable. CE_Music comparison to S4X was very useful: once again graphs already showed that bump in mid-bass, and his subjective impressions are as I expected.
There was something in the frequency response I didn't liked, though: I didn't test them thoroughly and precisely, It has to be some slight bump in the 500-1200 range... A very minor bump anyway, and I could have kept them if it weren't for the M1570, once again. It was very clear for me that I preferred the M1570 for frequency response, dynamics and overall presentation, no reason to keep the S5X, and they are already back to Ollo audio: they are a very professional company and accept returns with no questions or problems (of course, shipping back was on my side).
A very good headphone for mixing, anyway, and there is no 'blurring' of the center like in the Sennheiser HD560S. Yes, you feel the angled drivers, but the imaging and soundstage is correct, in my opinion.

Funny I just asked exactly this in another thread. Maybe we should shut up in case we get whacked by the Headphone room sim mafia.
I have LCDX and have tried and tried to find a translatable setting in any of the correction room sim and crossover apps. No dice. Translation is always wonky.

Even the ones with big studios listen to their mixes on different monitors and sometimes on headphones as well when finalizing.

Yeah I am here on big ATC speakers and have access to all sorts of other speakers but what I am asking is there anybody who swears by their room sim correction headphone stuff for translation. Yes headphones are good for detecting clicks and noise etc in QC.

what does QC stand for?

Quality Control.

There will be tens if not hundreds of peeps telling they do their duties in headphones with or without room sim correction headphone stuff, so what you with ATCs are looking for with their responses?

Audeze LCD-X vs LCD-4z vs MM-500 vs LCD-5 vs CRBN Electrostatic

In the latest Produce like a Pro episode Warren Huart, Cameron Webb and Marc Nelson are nerding in the Audeze factory.

The full factory tour is pretty informative but their listening tests/side by side headphone comparisons are the most interesting:

https://youtu.be/PahWVSBcbJk?t=1936

This guy can't even hear ATC's mistimealignment and his Trinnov corrected ATC's preringing. How can he hear headphones' clean impulse response? Lol.

WHHHHAAAAT? Snide personal insults? You sad small minded little twerp. Lol

Maybe I could make more effort with the headphones. My ATCs sound really good in my space with minimal correction from the Trinnov. They translate really well and my clients are very happy. I am too used to the sound I guess and when I try the headphones it throws me off.

Some bedroom producers on here seem to think that surgically accurate speakers with totally linear responses, time alignment etc are the answer to mix translation. Thats not the answer. What you need is a target response that translates. This can be a very personal thing. B&K, Harmon, Oratory and variants etc

New Ollo S5X released, aimed at immersive format mixing, like Dolby Atmos etc, although still suitable for stereo.

Discovered the existence of Verum Audio which seems to make really good priced planar's that compete with other well know brands.

Has anyone used the Yamaha HPH-MT220 headphones? I think they are out of production these days. But I just ask because as far as my ears go they appear to be somewhere in between phones like the HD600's that tend, to me at least, to be very muddy, and something like the Sony MDR7506 that are more trebly. The Yamaha MT220's fall kind of in between those extremes roughly. They weren't very expensive back in the day.

Thanks so much for this amazingly detailed & concrete comparison. Do you hav any experience with the Denon ADH-D5000? It's in the price range between the NDH30 & the HD800, and I've heard it's great, but I wonder about its (vebyed) closed back, and whether its sound is worth the extra $350 over the Neumann.

Got the dt 880 pro in addition to the k702 i got already. The dt 880 pro are very uncomfortable, good to listen to a song 2 or 3 times, not more. K702 are way more comfortable. Also, sonically, the k 702 are better than the dt 880 pro but the dt 880 pro do a good job and i'm happy to have them as a second reference. However, the k702 win in every aspect. The k702 picture the sound image in such a detailed precision, i think they can not be beat by any other headphones in price range < $140.


Lot of reviewers write the hd 600 sit very tight and, therefore, are pretty uncomfortable. Also, the fact that thomann lists the 560s as "hifi headphones" and not in the "studio headphones" sections pulls me off of sennheiser a bit.

That wasn't really my question, but thanks for the input.

In my experience, the K702 is not comfortable at all, the band being quite hard against the top of my head, and they are low bass shy and a bit bright in the mid treble. The Denon AH-D5000 are boomier and brighter than the cheaper AH-D2000. The AH-D7000 beats both for more money. All are long out of production but can be gotten used. The Denons are among the most accurate cans out there, though not perfect. Don't worry about the closed backed design. They are excellent, and closed backs have advantages for tracking and not bothering others. I have not heard the Neumanns yet.

Aside from the, kind of why both answering if you're not going to believe them anyway (may as well just keep to your current view)

I'm not sure the question is relevent.

First you'd have to ask, does their mix "translate well" on their alternative monitor setup in their room or do they even have a room if they're working on a mobile setup?

If the headphones potentially provided better monitoring than their either non-existant monitor setup or a poor one... then it should be a relative judgement, whether it translates as well as their other options.

I assume that most people looking for headphones to monitor on are doing so because they dont have an amazing setup in a particular situation and are therefore looking for an alternative that allows them to get work done in the best way possible, even if it's sub-optimal in the grand scheme of perfect things.

Then there's the aspect that many are making their own music - so it has nothing to "translate", it's all their personal subjective choice, including being designed to be listened to on a particular headphone should they so choose... with the suggested listening environment there on their Bandcamp page. Nothing has to translate across a broad range of listening scenarios if the creator doesn't wish it to - I'd guess that's more of an instinctive, learned concern of a professional working for others.

Personally I would be looking to suplement monitoring because to increase isolation in the space I rent would be beyond practical, so would want to minimalise time spent monitoring at louder volumes and also certain times.

Anybody using the Sennheiser 560s for mixing?

I have a pair and they are excellent. A cheaper alternative than the HD650. Nice bottom end and mids.

I find it interesting people think mixing with headphones. I have a tuned control room with some amazing monitors and I still will reference mixes on some DT990s I've owned for years. Monitors and Headphones are like opinions. And I like to get lots of opinions on mixes. That said, I think the "best" headphones are the ones you find work for you and give you the accuracy you need. I think we also "learn" our monitors/headphones so that even if they aren't the "best" we know what to expect from them.

Sennheiser HD600's here...Sonarworks + Can Opener...does that make a good combo? Will I have some decently accurate monitoring with this setup?

Yes.

That's my setup, and no complaints. I rarely actually use Can Opener though.