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"St Anger"
Old 23rd June 2003
  #31
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adamcal's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'll chime im.

I like it, Its mean ugly, harsh, and insulting. Perhaps its all the metal bands Ive done but....I get it, it like a bad nightmare where everything is ****ed up.

Ive felt like this record sounds at times, its not nice or is it easy, but it happens.

I was not a big metalica fan before nor am I now( Im a god damm Toto and YES fan), But I do appreicate this record for what it is.
Old 23rd June 2003
  #32
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
If you say so ;-)

I still feel like just about anyone who can play guitar/drums reasonably well could have written, recorded, and performed that record- and when you're charging Metallica prices, I feel like you have a responsibility to give us a well thought out album. Weren't the original Garage Days albums much less $$ when they came out? Couldn't they have released this as something to vent with and then actually wrote some music? I also feel as though they're covering their asses a bit with this whole "You'll hear bad edits" etc. because I remember seeing a video where they introduce their pro tools guy, say 'wow we've never worked with pro tools before, this guy can do amazing stuff!!!!' and play a little bit of the album and seem nearly embaressed by it lol.
Old 23rd June 2003
  #33
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jpaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by BattleAngel
If you say so ;-)

I still feel like just about anyone who can play guitar/drums reasonably well could have written, recorded, and performed that record- and when you're charging Metallica prices, I feel like you have a responsibility to give us a well thought out album. Weren't the original Garage Days albums much less $$ when they came out? Couldn't they have released this as something to vent with and then actually wrote some music? I also feel as though they're covering their asses a bit with this whole "You'll hear bad edits" etc. because I remember seeing a video where they introduce their pro tools guy, say 'wow we've never worked with pro tools before, this guy can do amazing stuff!!!!' and play a little bit of the album and seem nearly embaressed by it lol.
I agree with your point very much... Metallica had established a production standard with their previous releases, even the Load and Reload tracks that were quite a departure from their original style... a non-industry friend of mine made a comment about Metallica, stating that whether or not you like the songs, at least they were all well-written and produced in a professional manner, going back to the pre-Bob Rock days. It's as if they just got lazy on this album, tried to be heavy and raw without working on simple things like song structure and arrangement. Even ...And Justice For All, with all of it's ridiculous marathon riffing and time changes, flowed as if some sort of thought was put into it. St. Anger sounds like a jam session with a couple of mics in the room, the band hitting a verse or chorus together and then someone going off into a new idea and the rest of the guys catching up a bar or two later.

As far as ProTooling goes, I know Metallica has used it in the past... perhaps that comment was made in sarcasm? I can't speak for the older stuff, but I spoke with a fellow involved in ...And Justice For All, and he told me that every single kick and snare drum on the album were edited on the 2" master, measured precisely to the tempo of the song/section. Same was done on the "Black" album, and since then they've used ProTools for this procedure. Lars pretty much can't play to a click whatsoever (can he play at all??). Before Kill 'Em All was recorded, there's a rumor that the rest of the band wanted to kick him out and ask Charlie Benante from Anthrax to join the band, but apparently Lars owned the Metallica name or logo or something like that.

I had high hopes for St. Anger, but as a longtime Metallica fan, they're dead to me at this point.
Old 23rd June 2003
  #34
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
LOL if that rumor is true, that's really hilarious- Lars really sucks ass. I love ...And Justice, and the drum parts were amazing but so blatantly edited. That was part of the charm I thought- didn't sound like midi but sure as hell didn't sound like a real drummer. Their whole sound has always seemed extremely strange to me, but strange in a definitely "good" way. Very little on this earth can get me as pumped as any good song off of RTL->AJFA and a few of the really amazing tracks on Black (God Who Failed being my fav- what a riff) heaving through a great car sound system at night.

And yeah- no matter if you liked Black, Load, Reload, there was a very very high standard of production and thoughtfulness that I thought made it impossible to say that they sucked even though the music was totally different.

What I don't get is why they were called sellouts back then- who did they sell out to, the heavy metal country crowd? There was no band in the mainstream that sounded anything like Load or Reload- some brilliant songs on both albums. Riffs that totally dazzled me too.

St. Anger is just pure bull**** and while I'd like to think it's a ballsy "**** you" record, I really think it's more along the lines of a New Agey Post-Alcoholica James being a panzy and not having the guts or the juice left to really sit down and be the creative monster he once was. They could have put out an album about the same topic, with the same production (tone) and had it be a masterpiece if they had thought it through somewhat and done the concept justice.

If you ask me- *this* is the album that makes them sellouts- by backpedalling and pandering to faux-metal crowds instead of continuing with a forward evolution. Whatever, they are pussies at this point. And don't get me started on that bass player- he's got chops but anyone who crawls around on the floor as an antic should be shot.

Let's just hope Dave Mustaine gets his **** together and puts out a cool record. I thought "Cryptic Writings" was absolute genious. I'll strike the last two from the record and let him resume from that point. ;-)
Old 23rd June 2003
  #35
Gear Maniac
 
Dan-O's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I just heard it for the first time the other day. ...yep...oh my god the snare...what the f*** with this snare...jesus the sna....wait...wait...it's genius...I love it...I love the snare...the snare is outstanding...the snare is a work of art...I will now model all my work on this snare...Bob you are a genius...thanks for that snare...you are about to change the whole sound of a genre'...thank you...thank you...(it needs it)god I love that snare...do remember when we use to embrace those awful standard sounding snares...
Old 23rd June 2003
  #36
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jpaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan-O
I just heard it for the first time the other day. ...yep...oh my god the snare...what the f*** with this snare...jesus the sna....wait...wait...it's genius...I love it...I love the snare...the snare is outstanding...the snare is a work of art...I will now model all my work on this snare...Bob you are a genius...thanks for that snare...you are about to change the whole sound of a genre'...thank you...thank you...(it needs it)god I love that snare...do remember when we use to embrace those awful standard sounding snares...

Well there definately is something strangely addictive about the snare sound... i could see it working well if the rest of the album was a bit more professional aounding (ya know, the old "if something about the mix ain't bothering anyone, then it ain't done yet!" mentality)... but personally i'll take Soundgarden's Superunkown or the Chilli Peppers' Blood Sugar Sex Magic as my Holy Grail of snare drums (Love ya Brendan!!! lol)
Old 23rd June 2003
  #37
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jpaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by BattleAngel
LOL if that rumor is true, that's really hilarious- Lars really sucks ass. I love ...And Justice, and the drum parts were amazing but so blatantly edited. That was part of the charm I thought- didn't sound like midi but sure as hell didn't sound like a real drummer. Their whole sound has always seemed extremely strange to me, but strange in a definitely "good" way.
A very talented drummer that i recently worked with mentioned he thinks Master of Puppets was actually a drum machine with real cymbals... cracked me up at the thought, but there could be truth to that statement. I know some other bands of that era/genre were doing similar things for fast parts.

Quote:
Very little on this earth can get me as pumped as any good song off of RTL->AJFA and a few of the really amazing tracks on Black (God Who Failed being my fav- what a riff) heaving through a great car sound system at night.
So true... and God that Failed was my favorite track off the black album as well! Slamming!


Quote:
And yeah- no matter if you liked Black, Load, Reload, there was a very very high standard of production and thoughtfulness that I thought made it impossible to say that they sucked even though the music was totally different.
No arguements whatsoever...

Quote:
What I don't get is why they were called sellouts back then- who did they sell out to, the heavy metal country crowd? There was no band in the mainstream that sounded anything like Load or Reload- some brilliant songs on both albums. Riffs that totally dazzled me too.

St. Anger is just pure bull**** and while I'd like to think it's a ballsy "**** you" record, I really think it's more along the lines of a New Agey Post-Alcoholica James being a panzy and not having the guts or the juice left to really sit down and be the creative monster he once was. They could have put out an album about the same topic, with the same production (tone) and had it be a masterpiece if they had thought it through somewhat and done the concept justice.

If you ask me- *this* is the album that makes them sellouts- by backpedalling and pandering to faux-metal crowds instead of continuing with a forward evolution. Whatever, they are pussies at this point. And don't get me started on that bass player- he's got chops but anyone who crawls around on the floor as an antic should be shot.
That couldn't have possibly been said any better... you've hit the nail on the head IMNSFHO!
Old 23rd June 2003
  #38
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Deja V.U.'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Cliff Burton must be rolling in his grave.
Old 6th July 2003
  #39
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Well, i'll be damned. just finished watching the Meallica ICON show on VH1. they really sounded great, IMHO, it was live but hey, they rocked. I would not hesitate to see this show with the new Bass Player and a sober James.. They played a medly of old stuff ( Blackened, Battery, creep, etc) and finished with St Anger or whatever it is called.. sounded really good. odly, the sonics of this broadcast destroyed what was on the album cuts i have heard..
Old 6th July 2003
  #40
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jpaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Smith
Well, i'll be damned. just finished watching the Meallica ICON show on VH1. they really sounded great, IMHO, it was live but hey, they rocked. I would not hesitate to see this show with the new Bass Player and a sober James.. They played a medly of old stuff ( Blackened, Battery, creep, etc) and finished with St Anger or whatever it is called.. sounded really good. odly, the sonics of this broadcast destroyed what was on the album cuts i have heard..
They sounded tighter and more powerful than ever on that medley... i want to get guitar tones like that on an album! thumbsup
I thought the drums sounded particularly great on that ICON show as well.
Old 6th July 2003
  #41
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
yeah, its funny, because one of the big "quotes " that piqued my interst was the B Rock had told them before the Black album started that they had never captured their live power on an album ( the black album did come damn close) and now he has officially joined that camp. I see a live DVD iin the future that will be incredible. it has been a while since Binge and Purge, and the S&M thing did not count ( not a typical Met live show by any means) bring on the concert footage..

Quote:
They sounded tighter and more powerful than ever on that medley...
totally, I was very impressed that he could sing and play all that stuff after sitting around for an hour + .. the guy is incredible.
Old 6th July 2003
  #42
Gear Addict
 
Robotnik's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I spoke with Bob about the album. He said the record label didn't give as large enough budget to the band as they used to.
Old 6th July 2003
  #43
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
great, so how about putting then in a room for 15 minutes and letting them play live? I have seeen this ban a few times, they can play, and I am not "farting higher than my ass" to say that any number of us here could have done a better job mixing this record. ( granted that may sound like they wanted, but I really doubt it.)

Sorry, but better soundeing records get made on a shoestring every day. This albums sonics was a creative decision, and I think a bad one. If they were going for the " bunch of guys in a garage vibe, I have a idea.

PUT THEM IN A FRIGGIN GARAGE, PRESS RECORD. Bad edits and super loud vocals do not say garage to me, nor does not turning up the guitars on a Metallica record.
Old 6th July 2003
  #44
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Yeah it just goes to the root of how Panzy mainstream rock/metal is these days where we're using Justin Timberlake patches on the lead vocalists of supposedly bad ass bands and we're, for all intents and purposes, using a 'garage band' plug-in on the first bad ass thrash band =P
Old 6th July 2003
  #45
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jpaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Robotnik
I spoke with Bob about the album. He said the record label didn't give as large enough budget to the band as they used to.
Sorry but i just can't believe that... they're the biggest-selling band on Elektra, and the biggest-selling metal band of all time... they built their own studio and hired Bob Rock for over a year to make this pile of crap ... it's not as if they didn't put time into this. I bet it ended up costing them MORE than any previous album, considering the label most likely payed for Hetfield's trip to rehab and that psychologist/coach guy they had meetings with every morning in the studio.
Old 6th July 2003
  #46
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ELI-173's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Flemming is missed, if I see Bob in the street I will fart in his general direction.


dfegad
Old 6th July 2003
  #47
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Mike Tholen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I don't like Bob's style much at all.
The first 3 records are ****ing great.
What else did Flemming do?
How do you feel about the new record Michael?

I just bought "Ride the Lightning" again...what a great record.
I will go buy the other 2 before the day's over.heh
Old 7th July 2003
  #48
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Tholen

How do you feel about the new record Michael?
how od, i just logged in to ask that exact question...
Old 28th May 2004
  #49
Gear Addict
 
hourglass's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Tholen
What else did Flemming do?
Sorry to be unearthing old dead ****. But...


Check out Blind Guardian's "Imaginations from the Other Side" and "Nightfall in Middle Earth."

Flemming produced/mixed Imaginations and did the mix on Nightfall.

After NiME, the rhythm guitars tend to get lost in the newer BG stuff... But, if you're missing the "old" Metallica style, with top-notch vocals and a hell of a lot of melody added, then check out these two.

ryan
Old 28th May 2004
  #50
Gear Maniac
 
Henrik's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I interviewed Flemming Rasmussen for Swedish music mag MM in December 2003. The article will be published in the next issue for those who care. What gave Flemming the Metallica jobs was that he had produced two Rainbow records. He has done pretty much all big Danish bands as well, but they are rarely known outside of Denmark. I asked him what he thought of St. Anger, and he said it was better that its reputation.

Check out his joint at www.sweetsilence.com. He's got an A-range.

Cheers,
Henrik
Old 27th July 2004
  #51
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Mike Tholen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
thanks for the link!
Old 27th July 2004
  #52
Gear Nut
 
Andy Sneap's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Im surprised no one has mentioned how out of tune the whole album is, that bridge on St Anger kills me, possible because of different scale guitars (baritone and Les Pauls) being used at the same time, or maybe Electra wouldn't spring for batteries for the tuners, budgets being tight these days. I don't get the album myself, but I kind of understand what they were going for, sadly I think it fell somewhat short. By the way, any one who thinks Lars is bad, he was definately missed at Download, though Lombardo playing battery was a highlight. Thought he was going to have a stroke towards the end
Old 27th July 2004
  #53
Gear Maniac
 
Henrik's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I finally went and bought my own copy of St. Anger. It's really a very strange album. I agree with Andy, it's like they had some cool ideas, but didn't manage to make them come real. The mix is really strange also. On some songs, the guitars are so low mixed you can barely hear what they're playing. And then Lars' messed up drums. The kick and snare sound like they are from different records, they don't work together the least. I don't like the super on-off kind of thing where they shift from a heavy part to a soft one, from one sample to the next.

I guess the "Flemming" on the thanks list is Mr. Rasmussen, although Flemming is a rather common Danish name.

Cheers,
Henrik
Old 27th July 2004
  #54
Gear Nut
 
Zoesch's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I would've but I missed the thread, mental block every time I see Metallica mentioned... but I always (This is since when? 1985 or so?) said that Kirk Hammet had to be the best tone deaf guitarrist ever, he's NEVER in his life played in tune (Varispeed was his friend), so why are we acting surprised just now?

Funny, I just loved how they started going about how they wanted to be as raw as Entombed, but they forgot one thing, Cederlund and Hellid can play in tune even when the guitars are downtuned to C and more obviously both Nicke Andersson (When he was still with them) and now Peter StjΓ€rnvind can play in time, with groove and without needing to be editted to death unlike our Danish Midget of Evil.

It backfired, but the kids still bought it in droves...

When I heard it I almost gave up, all these years of suffering and working in the Metal and Industrial trenches to have THAT POS released as the savior of what was truly metal... thankfully I heard Death Cult Armaggedon in time to realize what a good band, with good production and the two balls intact from the spoilt life of being overhyped to the max could achieve.

If history was fair, we'd be talking about Exodus and how awesome Paul Baloff was. Or hell, giving props to Andy for Dreamweaver. It pains me to see Rob Trujillo there, and the kids not knowing who Suicidal were (Oh well it doesn't help that Mike went into a Creative coma after 1992), it was great to see Jason helping the Iron Gang and giving them some exposure (And it was a great record BTW) and the kids not caring one bit.

But no, alas, that's not the case.

Metallica with Mustaine and Burton (And god knows I personally dislike Mustaine to funny extents) was a promising band, without them it was an OK band that was overrun by a guy with a lot more ambition than talent or size.

Bring the flames fuuck
Old 27th July 2004
  #55
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drew's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Robotnik
I spoke with Bob about the album. He said the record label didn't give as large enough budget to the band as they used to.
*cough-cop out-cough*

But they'll spend $4.3mil of their own money to buy back the documentary from Elektra? nice try Bob. It's a turd, own up to it and move on!!
Old 28th September 2004
  #56
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everybody's x's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan-O
I just heard it for the first time the other day. ...yep...oh my god the snare...what the f*** with this snare...jesus the sna....wait...wait...it's genius...I love it...I love the snare...the snare is outstanding...the snare is a work of art...I will now model all my work on this snare...Bob you are a genius...thanks for that snare...you are about to change the whole sound of a genre'...thank you...thank you...(it needs it)god I love that snare...do remember when we use to embrace those awful standard sounding snares...
unfortunately I am tracking a band requesting that snare sound if you can believe it

and I spent forever dialing in a sweet sound , but they want that ringing ****ty metallica snare
Old 28th September 2004
  #57
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Why would they want a ****ty snare like that? Sigh... if they wanna sound like Metallica they better listen to the RTL-MOP-AJFA albums...

Whatever gets their kicks though
Old 29th September 2004
  #58
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patsplat's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by drew
nice try Bob. It's a turd, own up to it and move on!!
Yeah...I think it blows... dfegad fuuck A shame really...they was one of my favorite bands back in the day... I agree with the Death Cult Armaggedon (Dimmu Borgir) comment thumbsup
Old 29th September 2004
  #59
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djui5's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by mwagener
That was my first reaction when I heard the CD. The guys are not stupid and they are great musicians, so, I expect that they have something up their sleeves, this can't just be the final version..


This would be hillarious......

"We f-k'd up the mix/mastering of St. Anger...so here's a new copy everyone....go out and buy it..."



lmfao......yeah right.....I wouldn't pay for that $hit once..let alone twice.....
Old 29th September 2004
  #60
Gear Nut
 
Andy Sneap's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
check this out
http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/...gerTribute.mp3

Its from Matt who posts on my forum, pure genius

heres how he got the snare sound
http://www.theocracymusic.com/snare.jpg
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