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Hip Hop is taking over
Old 6th June 2003
  #1
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Renie's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hip Hop is taking over

"...hip hop is currently the best-selling musical genre world-wide, outstripping pop, country, rock and any other genre you can think of."

"Practically hip hop was the first musical genre to rely exclusively on technology."

"Whether talking politics or parties, hip hop has always known that a good sound bite is worth more than a dozen reasoned arguments."

Patrick Neate's new book "Where You're At: Notes from the Frontline of a Hip Hop Planet", despite the title, looks like it could make for some interesting reading.
Old 6th June 2003
  #2
I always thought it remarkable at US majors when ever I visit NYC..... reception in the middle, tracks suits & gold chains go left (rap) - Blue jeans & aligator shirts go right...(rock)

I alway take the right turn, but not for a minuite did I ever think those cats turning left in the sports clothes & gold chains were doing a music genre less valuable culturaly & financially than mine...

Good on them!

Long live rock!

Old 6th June 2003
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I'm a nerdy, geeky white guy. But, back in the day, Melle Mel asked me to go hang out with him for a day. I had something else to do. I used to be too damn serious.

Anyhow, I think there are a number of factors that come together as to why Hip Hop sells so much. I think a large part of it is relatability. People relate to the sounds and the lyrics.

Steve, www.mojopie.com
Old 6th June 2003
  #4
Here for the gear
 
AlanThomas's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
In some ways, Hip Hop is the Rock & Roll of today...

It's in-your-face, loud, obnoxious, controversial, unapologetic, scares the **** out of parents & pisses off "the man"... All the great things that Rock & Roll used to be...

And, most importantly, it has, in droves, what rock has less & less of: ultra dedicated fans to whom the music is a lifestyle.

And I think the fans, in a lot of ways, can relate much more to the artists than can rock/pop/country fans.

Anyway, I'm with Jules: more power to 'em... But, I'm still a rocker ("actually, I'm a mocker").


Long live rock, be it dead or alive...
Old 6th June 2003
  #5
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vodka gimli's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
And I think the fans, in a lot of ways, can relate much more to the artists than can rock/pop/country fans.
I'd agree, the hip hop fans relate to the image of the artists. Country artists do a pretty amazing job of relating to the actual fans, as witnessed by Fan Fair, which is going on right now.

We (Wynonna Judd) just did the Ryman on Wednesday as guests of Marty Stuart's Late Night Jam. It ran until 2:00 a.m. We soundchecked at 5:00 while Marty had a meeting with his fan club in the balcony. Everyone who wanted a picture or an autograph got one.

During the show, he gathered his band and they sat about three feet from the front row and did an impromptu acoustic set. Two of his fans got married on stage during a set change!

After we were done, as I was hauling gear to my car, Wy was standing in the alley on some fan's cell phone talking to her friend back home.

I doubt such close fan contact is possible in most any other genre.
Old 6th June 2003
  #6
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by vodka gimli
I doubt such close fan contact is possible in most any other genre.
X-ian rock? I'd be willing to bet the artists and fans hold prayer groups before, after, and during shows.

Also, a band I knew used to hang out and do drugs with the Pixies back in the 90's.

Opposite sides of the fence, but two similar kinds of closeness.

Hip-hop has infiltrated rock, rather thoroughly. The delineations between many styles of music are evaporating a little more each day. I'm diggin' it when it's good. However, I think very few groups are merging specifically hip-hop and rock well. Infact, I can't think of any.
Old 7th June 2003
  #7
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drew's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
hip hop is now what glam rock was in '89. it's cool now but wait 15 years.
drew
Old 7th June 2003
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Hip Hop

"hip hop is now what glam rock was in '89. it's cool now but wait 15 years"

hmmm - hip hop has more than proved its powers of longevity. Its an established arform much the same way as jazz culture is... don't forget hip-hop already has almost 30yrs of history behind it - dating back to the mid-70's block party's, etc.

Hip Hop is not a passing fad... and also I don't particularly think that hip hop is exactly 'cool' right now - its never been more commercial maybe but 'cool' for me means 'trendy' and 'underground'... the more mainstream - the less cool factor for me.

There are signs of hope however - Common, Slum Village, Mos Def, The Roots, etc, etc... all doing innovative stuff - especially when they incorporate more of the r n b element.... and the production/mixing techniques are second to none IMO...


Burt
Old 7th June 2003
  #9
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Renie's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
However, I think very few groups are merging specifically hip-hop and rock well. Infact, I can't think of any.
Does DJ Shadow count?
Old 7th June 2003
  #10
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cashewcupcake's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
What is this Hip and Hop you speak of?

Lowest common denominator.
fuuck
Old 7th June 2003
  #11
Gear Nut
 
mtsupiano's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
hiphop

I think hip hop is here to stay. With that said, I think hip hop is not moving in any particular direction. It needs someone to come along and shake things up. The genre is becoming to stale for my tastes.
Old 7th June 2003
  #12
jho
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jho's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Maybe I missed that issue of billboard but I thought Rock was still the biggest selling genre. Must have been
Old 7th June 2003
  #13
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
DJ Shadow first album was terrific - summed up sound of the late 90's

Not sure what you call it apart from a 'DJ set' but it was a great mix.

Avalanches nearly get there.
Old 7th June 2003
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Hip Hop

agree with most of the posts above - yes Hip Hop is mostly about the lowest common denominator these days and is badly in need of a shake up... luckily there are some great acts - especially out of Illadelphia & Detroit - that are doing that right now...

as for Hip Hop merging with rock... why would anyone wanna do that anyway?

Burt
Old 7th June 2003
  #15
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Tim L's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: Hip Hop

Quote:
Originally posted by Burt

... and the production/mixing techniques are second to none IMO...
How so? To me the genre allways seemed rather "lo-fi" as far as production goes. Though the lyrics can certainly be pretty powerful, I've never been particularly impressed with the stuff from a technical stand point.
Old 7th June 2003
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Lo-fi

Production-wise Hip hop always seems to break the rules and there are many fine examples of incredible sounding records in that genre.

Take something like Man Parrish's 'Hip Hop Be Bop' from 1982... awesome production.

Nowadays Bob Power, Russell Elevado ,etc are bringing a warmth and power in the mix that I don't hear in other genres...

Lo-fi? Go check The Roots: "Break You Off", "Something In the Way of Things" from the latest album, anything from Common's last 2 albums, Roy Hargrove ft. Q-Tip-Meshell-Erykah Badu "Poetry", etc.... this is hi-end analog recording meets the latest plug-ins (spektral delay, etc), drum programming, live playing, etc.

I'm not talkin' bout that (c)rap you hear on MTV.. that's just whack I agree...

Burt
Old 7th June 2003
  #17
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: Hip Hop lo fi

The state of Hip Hop as we know it vs how it was when it started

When hip hop first became commercialised it was ground breaking in my opinion, and took its higher production values from a lot of the r&b that was going around at the time ie Jam & Lewis etc.

Now that 'everyone' is doing it and 'everyone' has a million plug ins etc, lets not forget that when a lot of the first wave came out it was a fiddly, pain in the arse, difficult job to get everything sounding just so.

What about the days when it took 5 s900's to get your kick-ass snare sound? And 2 weeks to get your grooves sitting properly on pro 24 with a sampler that had 512k of memory? In those days, the creativity of 'trying to make best' was where it was at, and a lot of great stuff came out.

People like Dr Dre defined an entire period of popular culture, but just because he has imitators doesn't mean the roots were to be sniffed at.

It's a testament to some of the talent that now 'everyone' and 'anyone' can make a hip hop/r&b record, none of it sounds as fresh and innovative as it was years ago, and when it does get close, there's always some kind of 'contrived' feeling about it

That's what happens when you get blinged by your own bling bling I guess
Old 7th June 2003
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by AlanThomas
In some ways, Hip Hop is the Rock & Roll of today...

It's in-your-face, loud, obnoxious, controversial, unapologetic, scares the **** out of parents & pisses off "the man"... All the great things that Rock & Roll used to be...

And, most importantly, it has, in droves, what rock has less & less of: ultra dedicated fans to whom the music is a lifestyle.

And I think the fans, in a lot of ways, can relate much more to the artists than can rock/pop/country fans.

Anyway, I'm with Jules: more power to 'em... But, I'm still a rocker ("actually, I'm a mocker").


Long live rock, be it dead or alive...
hip hop used to be relatable now all you have are clowns talkin about how much money they have, 'ice', 'bitches' and playin a scene from the latest action flick with there murder murder non sense...not saying these kind of songs don't have there place but when everyone's doing it, its pretty wack and extremely unrelatable whatever happened to songs like "Self Destruction" getting air play?!?!
Old 7th June 2003
  #19
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cashewcupcake's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I look forward to the "where are they now?" shows about all the gangster/whoring rappers living in the ghetto after having all their diamonds and bloated houses repo'd by the bank.
Old 7th June 2003
  #20
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Tim L's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: Lo-fi

Quote:
Originally posted by Burt
I'm not talkin' bout that (c)rap you hear on MTV.. that's just whack I agree...
I'm not a big fan of the genre so the "MTV" stuff is pretty much the extent of my exposure to it. I'll keep an ear out for the artists you mentioned though.

I do feel the more RnB influenced end of the genre tends to be much better produced both technically and artistically. At least from the stuff I've listened to in passing.
Old 7th June 2003
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by faeflora
I look forward to the "where are they now?" shows about all the gangster/whoring rappers living in the ghetto after having all their diamonds and bloated houses repo'd by the bank.

Would be the same as the drugged out/whoring rock & pop stars who are on "where are they now" after getting their "diamonds" & bloated houses repo'd by the bank. There are long term failures in every aspect of the music game. The fact that you "look forward" to seeing rappers "living in the ghetto" and suffering says alot about you.
Old 7th June 2003
  #22
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
(In my most UK of accents)

Watch it mother, or faeflora gonna git herself some hardware and blow your bling as far as Compton know wha I'm sayin' yeahhhhhh boyeeeeeee...gotta watch out for faelatifa when she gets her freak on
Old 7th June 2003
  #23
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Renie's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I thought we'd established on another thread that Faeflora is male.
But the name and avatar will continue to mist the perceptions in a very rock'n'roll fashion or maybe it's the true spirit of hip hop.

Bling blong! Carry on!
Old 7th June 2003
  #24
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
when making hip hop, one doesn't have to be as musically talented as if doing rock/country/or anything else besides electronic music. im not putting down rap, but an hour on reason will give you a good base for a rap song. if the lyrics suck, the song is trash.dfegad
Old 7th June 2003
  #25
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Ruphus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Sure, every genre has some exceptions and one could find some rare versatile and originally sounding specimesn in this one too, but in general this monotonous undemanding diesel engine rattle and screaming / talking mixture just proved one more time that consumers can be made to accept whatever you abundantly put on the media. How undemanding it might ever be.

I would had prefered ghetto poems to stay on paper. I know that some are really well rhymed, they existed long before three guys unable to play music started to slice established songs with their ghetto blaster and talking cursings over that. ( In the late seventies, BTW, not mid. And it took another couple of years until it had been spread. Next people are telling this genre to be Celtic )

There would had never been commecial success for this genre if major labels hadn´t found that pushing something "new" - whatever it might be - promisses the most turnover.

I think hiphop has the biggest selling numbers for a while now and don´t believe that it is expanding at times, rather do I believe and hope that people are slowly getting fed up with unmusical stuff and on the long run might be returning to appreciation of nice varying tunes and to skills. It can´t hurt culture demands wise.

Ruphus
Old 7th June 2003
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
WTF?

Wow... there is some serious ignorant **** going thru this thread...

hip hop guys not as talented as rock musicians? what kind of hip hop are you guys being exposed to? Judging hip hop & r n b on the kind of wack **** on MTV is like judging 70's rock music on The Osmonds... forget that (c)rap...

"I would had prefered ghetto poems to stay on paper"

yeah - who wants to hear about black folks having a hard time anyways... actually wouldn't you prefer if they just built a huge wall around the ghettos so that you never had to see or hear them? Or better still ban all blacks from releasing records that comment on their social environment... yeah - keep em down, keep em in their place hey Ruphus?

"There would had never been commecial success for this genre if major labels hadn´t found that pushing something "new" - whatever it might be - promisses the most turnover"

urmm - like it or not but the large black population in the US has huge spending power and maybe it just so happens that they like buying records that they can relate to - and until you either ban black people from buying records or other folks start buying more rock/country, etc - then there's every chance a black music culture will be dominant. And you know what? Hip hop can be so good that even white folks buy it too... which makes it even more popular... amen to that.

My fave rapper is Common. Unmusical? Well let me see some featured musicians/singers... Bilal, James Poyser, D'Angelo, Stereolab, Femi Kuti, Roy Hargrove, etc, etc. I saw him live too - his band were all serious musicians who could show you a nice chord or 2. And there are more like this too...

heh

Burt
Old 7th June 2003
  #27
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Ruphus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
yeah - who wants to hear about black folks having a hard time anyways... actually wouldn't you prefer if they just built a huge wall around the ghettos so that you never had to see or hear them? Or better still ban all blacks from releasing records that comment on their social environment... yeah - keep em down, keep em in their place hey Ruphus?
I can see that you don´t like stuff to be called simple repetitive which you like as music and that you search for a comfortable way to neglect that someone is spelling it, but you can´t score with your approach. Wrong address.

I think it can´t hurt to read in general, even more when putting to sound yields what I hear as hiphop.
What musicians meeting talkers to see if they could do projects is concerned I remember some coming back fairly disappointed about the addressees musical skills. To me no wonder.

"Walk this way" was the only merge of that I know of as varying pulling piece. There will be some more, certainly, but not too many I guess. ( And "Walk this way" even existed before the merge project.)

I have always been thinking that music should contain senseful lyrics ( much more daily and political and corruption problems than the ever love texts ), but the main thing about music for me still is music. I don´t see its main function as anything else.

So, if there comes out no rhythm ( loud, sonicly high quality bum-bum doesn´t make a rhythm yet, especially not if it is all in all the very same monotonous slice way since it was heard first time ) and often even not singing, but talking ( doing it faster can´t yet make it singing also ) one should leave it and write it down for the sake of art.

What´s wrong with that?

But I can tell you what is wrong. When people who grow up with this pattern can´t feel the beauty of music anymore, that in my understanding is cultural degrade. And cultural degrade is what supports distraction from exploitation and discrimination.

But maybe you can enlighten me in how far rap since 20 years now has helped black people gain more of their rights.

Your turn.
Old 7th June 2003
  #28
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tunesmith's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I grew up as a white suburban rocker.

In 1997 I got my whole world rocked because some white person such as myself mentioned that I should check out a new CD from that chick from the fugees.

To make a long story short, I have been moved to a place of great passion for both hip-hop and rock music, as both a producer and a listener. Talib Quali sits very comfortably next to my Radiohead and Jeff Buckley on my iPod.

A lot of you out there are reacting to the, as you put it, lowest common denominator syndrome pervasive in hip hop. I will agree that there is a lot of crap in EVERY genre of music. Unfortunately, the record companies and MTV put a lot of it into the world's face.

However... I react STRONGLY to those of you complaining about the lack of talent needed to create hip hop and r & b music. Many people with low talent make bad country and rock. It's not hard. Hell, I'm producing my first country track and I did it without even referencing other country artists. You don't hear me, however, comparing my work to a great country producer and saying, "SEE!!! NO EXPERIENCE NECESSARY!" I have the perspective to know that my track is not the greatest country track in the world and I shouldn't go around like I am hot ****.

Those of you who bitch about how easy rap is to create should probobly try to actually produce a track. Then, when you're finished, pop on a little Jurassic 5 and sit in awe of how ****ty your track sounds.

We make the false assumption that it's pretty easy to get a loop, a bassline, and a few elements of ear candy to make a song. That's not a hip hop song. It's all about the soul... and I bet a lot of you detractors don't have it.

Long live rock.
Long live hip-hop.
Short live all the folks who can't get their heads out of their fannies.

Peace.
Old 7th June 2003
  #29
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by AlanThomas
In some ways, Hip Hop is the Rock & Roll of today...
Absolutely and in more ways than many people realize.

I think the biggest single problem with rock today is that the price of admission is way way too high because it is controlled by 50 year old "hip" gatekeepers who got their jobs during the '60s and '70s when the previous generation of labels, promoters, record store managers and reviewers didn't understand rock. Rock has ironically become somewhat of a rich gentlemen's' pastime while hip-hop has sidestepped "the industry" and developed a much more direct relationship with fans.

The most interesting thing to me is how few fans it really takes to become successful. I think the future lies in following the example of Hip Hop in other genres and taking music to the streets which was right where rock began.
Old 7th June 2003
  #30
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Hip Hop

"If a style of music does something for you, fine. If it doesn't, who cares?"

nobody here is disputing that... I don't like Marilyn Manson records but I don't expect to come on to a forum and say he's totally untalented and I wish his rants stayed as poems on paper, etc without getting put in my place.

Comments like 'an hour with Reason' is all you need to have a basis for a hip hop track is just wrong whether you like the music or not. Think a little deeper about it and you'll see that the 'defensive' veiwpoint is actually justified - what are people really saying here?

Hip hip is predominantly a black artform right? So instead of giving blacks credit for coming up with (yet another) genre of music that in less than 30 yrs has become the dominant force in popular music, all I've read is how unmusical it is and how easy it is to make... yeah cos those black folks are all pretty dumb right? They all like really easy to make, simple repetitive music with no brain lyrics about pussy and money right?.... its all subtle racism IMO...

you can find stupid records in any genre... so I wonder why its the black artform that gets generalized.

"But maybe you can enlighten me in how far rap since 20 years now has helped black people gain more of their rights."

just the fact that they don't have to get permission from guys like you to do their own ****...





Burt
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