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Focal cms 50 + sub or cms 65 (with or without) sub
Old 4th May 2010 | Show parent
  #31
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell ➑️
I hear a fuller, and more natural bass response on the CMS 50's, when compared to the A7. They are flatter sounding, and more revealing in the bottom by a fair measure. I much prefer them to the previous A7 incarnate. I've heard them side by side numerous times in our control room. Of course, listening to them in our control room, with our equipment has nothing to do with your control room, and your equipment, but.....

It took me several months to really start appreciating the CMS50's for their highly impressive lower octave response [considering their size and power] and I really warmed up to using the monitors, once I was able to understand them better through working with them for an entire project. The results I feel have been excellent. I just really like them and I can't view them as compromised options at all. The CMS65's offer the similar depth and flatness thing but with more go-go juice, so the bottom is more solid and perhaps more forward/higher outputting.

The CMS sub is a pretty slamming design, as it brings extremely LOW coloration, and precise PRESENCE of low info. It is not a "bang bang" sub. When using it correctly it enables the feeling and presence of sub harmonic without obscuring anything. For me, and in our control room, the reason I use these small near fields is for translation to other similarly sized speakers, and I don't find it a complete necessity to use a sub, but I don't look at it the same I suppose. Certainly, the application at hand should be discussed, because there many other specific reasons to use a sub than just because the printed specification of small speakers is lacking extreme bottom octave resolution.

The great thing about a three piece speaker system like this, is you can start anywhere and see where it lands you.

I have always been a huge fan of the Focal Twins and the CMS range keeps up the reputation. Just make sure you check out a run-in pair, remove the grilles and fit the 'phase plug' over the tweeter.

Incidentally, the new CMS40 are killers! Absolutely amazing and with such a small footprint. They sound like mini-Twins. They're about the same size as Genelec 8020 but that's where the similarity ends!
Old 4th May 2010 | Show parent
  #32
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Doc Mixwell's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by garryrobson ➑️
They sound like mini-Twins.
That's huge. Can't wait to check them out.
Old 5th May 2010 | Show parent
  #33
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyform ➑️
Ok, i really have to decide now, im already thinking too long, lol.

So if i will buy the Sub now or in the future then i guess it's better to buy CMS 50 instead of 65 right?

It wouldn't matter if i use CMS 50 or 65 with Sub because i would have to set the high-pass on the CMS 50 or 65 to 90hz and the sub to 90hz so they would probably play the same, is that right?
OMG looks like that i have really been deciding too long, the CMS SUB has gone up from 600€ to 800€ wtf and CMS 50 from 450€ to 480€, ok the CMS 65 which cost 650€ seems to be the best deal now.

Too bad because i really settled for CMS 50 with CMS SUB
Old 5th May 2010 | Show parent
  #34
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Just got the CMS 65s, no sub. It aint really necessary for me even tho my place is big (8m x 4,5m). Got another cheap sub at the moment which I use if I really need it. But I'm planning to add the CMS Sub later on when the budget's bigger. Man oh man, you wont be dissapointed with the 65s, they're really the best monitors I've heard in this price range, Much clearer and not as tiering to listen to as Genelecs 1030a, 8030, 8040. No flabby bass like the KRK VXT6 & 8. It's a really clear, wide and tight monitor for that price. And beats the Adams with a mile. You wont regret it.
Old 6th May 2010 | Show parent
  #35
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyform ➑️
Ok, i really have to decide now, im already thinking too long, lol.

So if i will buy the Sub now or in the future then i guess it's better to buy CMS 50 instead of 65 right?

It wouldn't matter if i use CMS 50 or 65 with Sub because i would have to set the high-pass on the CMS 50 or 65 to 90hz and the sub to 90hz so they would probably play the same, is that right?
Can somebody please answer on this.

Btw my room is 4.5m x 4.8m with a celling roof which goes up to 2.8m, and i have no room treatment, so really do i even need a sub for this room.

Im a bit used to a sub as i already use it on my old logitech speakers and i really miss a lot of bass with my Adam A7. Some people complain who have no room treatment and CMS65, that they have troubles with bass freqs, many say that CDM 50 are better for a room with no treatment but i don't see how a sub would work good in room with no treatment or better then CMS 65.
Old 6th May 2010 | Show parent
  #36
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyform ➑️
Can somebody please answer on this.

Btw my room is 4.5m x 4.8m with a celling roof which goes up to 2.8m, and i have no room treatment, so really do i even need a sub for this room.

Im a bit used to a sub as i already use it on my old logitech speakers and i really miss a lot of bass with my Adam A7. Some people complain who have no room treatment and CMS65, that they have troubles with bass freqs, many say that CDM 50 are better for a room with no treatment but i don't see how a sub would work good in room with no treatment or better then CMS 65.
Take home both pairs and try them. Every room is different. You wont find a better bass in this price range than on the 65s. But I would recommend that you take the time and fix a good treatment first. It aint pricey and it's so worth the difference.
Old 19th May 2010 | Show parent
  #37
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by phunk2 ➑️
Take home both pairs and try them. Every room is different. You wont find a better bass in this price range than on the 65s. But I would recommend that you take the time and fix a good treatment first. It aint pricey and it's so worth the difference.
I can't take both at home, only one store in my country sells Focal speakers and they dont want to give me both monitors at once.

I really can't decide, i will get crazy because of so much thinking.

Im pretty sure that i will buy the CMS Sub later, no matter if i take CMS 50 or CMS 65 now.

Simon from focal told me that the CMS 65 would still play different even with the high pass set to 90hz, because they are still different (more detail and information, better dynamics and headroom) mostly because of the slightly larger driver and cabinet as well as more amplifier power!
Old 27th May 2010 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Maniac
 
LightningBefore's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I would also like to know if anyone has shot out the CMS 50's to the Event Opal's. I'm already decided I'm going to trade in my Event Precision 8's for the 50's...but my practice space uses Opals and would love to hear a comparison/opinion!
Old 15th July 2010 | Show parent
  #39
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Hi all!

I'm running at the exact same 'issue' as the original posterl; I want to upgrade my KRK RP6's to better speakers and found the CMS series might be more suitable. As I use my KRK's at very low gain levels, I don't need a lot of loudness which come with the bigger CMS 65's, and I like to get rid of the mid range dip my RP6's are suffering from, I think a smaller conus does this job. Besides, I heard that the louder you make your speakers go, the flatter the response becomes, I think I need to put my CMS50's gain higher than the CMS65 so I reach the excursion potential more with the CMS50's, and as I use the CMS sub with crossover @ 90 hz or higher I don't need that extra low end that comes with the cms 65. Am I right?

On the other hand, the sub might be to big for my room, but I would like to use this for listening as well, so I can feel the bass stike thumbsup, Here I made a thread that describes what my room is like.

I read around a bit and saw the treble can be screechy, how does everyone think about this?

thanks in advance!
Old 22nd June 2011 | Show parent
  #40
Deleted User
Guest
Any news on this? Which did you go for in the end?

I'm in the same position! Medium sized untreated room, near-field listening, produce techno (although I don't usually use a lot of sub), can't play too loud because of neighbours, so will usually be low to moderate levels, but still want accurate bottom end at all levels... although I don't want it to be overpowering... can't decide between the two.

Extra LF of 65s would be nice for dance music, but would still have to check on club system anyway to get true feel... so maybe not essential or necessary???

Anyone else started using either models recently and can give some advice?

Hmm, 50s are cheaper (which is always a good thing!) but may need upgrade at some point, 65s lots more money, but will keep until they die!

How loud exactly are the 50s (subjectively I mean, I know the output in W!)? Loud enough, really loud, plenty loud enough for average near-field listening? Lots quieter than the 65s?

And the LF response... are the 50s noticeably lacking, or still really solid? Are the 65s maybe too bassy for my needs? I do need accurate response, but I don't need to shake my flat to the ground, lol! Does it make much of a difference at low to moderate levels (maybe high very occasionally)?

Any difference in sound quality between the two as different amps?

Any ideas/suggestions from current users of either model??

Thanks
Old 23rd June 2011 | Show parent
  #41
Lives for gear
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I'll have some CMS 50's in the next 1-2 days. I have a pretty small room they are going in with some basic treatment, I'll report how the bass is on them but they will need some burn in time and I probably cant say how good they are properly untill they are burned in and I start to push the output. (After 20-30 hours)

But I got these to have more bass and of course a better monitoring setup. Budget was max Β£800 and it was the CMS50's or Mackie HR624's (The latter of course having quite a big bass response) Currently using Samson Rubicon R5a's (50w on the low end compared to 80 on the CMS50's ) Rubicons are great overall and usually translate to most other systems quite well but I seriously lack low end phump and often have to go elsewhere to check the low end on my mixes, often resorting to my HIFI setup which have massive bass but of course that is never ideal, so really hoping the CMS50's have enough for me personally in the low end.
Old 23rd June 2011 | Show parent
  #42
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Several months ago I got the CMS 50s with a CMS Sub.

I have worked in the same room for 10 years with NHTpro monitors and Subs, the Focal stuff is in my home studio. Changing rooms after 10 years is no small feat! After a few months, I'm getting used to the home studio and can finally get the same results at home or at work.

I have grown to really like the Focal System.

To answer the original question, I believe that you need to have a full range system if you are working with full range source material. Most of my work is spoken word, and the little mic will pic up everything! The sub will make me well aware of P pops, A/C rumble, and other distractions.

I do feel like I need to have the CMS 50s very close to me. At more than 3 feet away they don't sound right. I don't know if that is the speaker or my room.

If I ever feel the need to upgrade my work speakers, Focal will be the first for me to consider.

One other thought that I now have is that maybe a Bag End sub would have been better than the CMS sub. I have an 18" Bag End sub in my home theater and it truly is a sub, meaning it goes really deep... 8hz deep! It's very musical at the same time.

The CMS sub is tight and punchy which may or may not be better for working. Some day I'll have to drag the 100 pound Bag End beast up stairs into the studio to compare.

Before I bought the Focal, I listened to some 8" Adams. I didn't care for them. They seemed a little too bigger than life to be considered accurate.

~Jay
Old 23rd June 2011 | Show parent
  #43
Deleted User
Guest
Thanks Jay, what are the 50s like without the sub? Noticeably LF light, or still pretty decent?
Old 23rd June 2011 | Show parent
  #44
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
I'll have to try it out again to give a more precise answer, but they are definitely still pretty decent on there own.

I know the best engineers in the world can get a great mix on Ns10's or even Auratones. But I'm not them... I need to hear the Bass and Kick to know what I'm going to get. I think Bass and Kick are where you would have a hard time with the CMS 50s alone. I think Bass goes down to 40hz or so? And a kick needs a ton of power to be faithfully reproduced.

~Jay
Old 26th June 2011 | Show parent
  #45
Deleted User
Guest
Also, can anyone help me with this thread please?

Focal CMS 65 Tweeter Damage?
Old 5th July 2011
  #46
Lives for gear
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Just giving some feedback on this thread to those who maybe considering the combination the OP was.

If your doing more dance / bass heavy music then a sub with the CMS50's would work best.

I felt a lack of bottom end for the style of music I work on most with the CMS50's, so a sub would be needed, but I think the CMS 65's would work very well without a sub and if I had the CMS 65's am sure I would still have them and be very happy with their bass response and not need a sub (I would prefer the 65's over 50's and sub I think)

Also I found it quite hard to correct hi hats on the CMS50's, they often seemed quite distant and hard to correct unless you gave them a +2 or so on the eq filter, but then If I did that I would get ear fatigue quite easy after a few hours. Even so just a couple of mixes with little use actually sounded very good on other systems apart from low end frequencies not sounding the best due to missing some bottom end of more bass heavy music.But the bass was still presence and very smooth, just lacked something down there for me, I guess it's because of their very flat overall sound which is a good thing to most.

I checked some Jazz and Rock out on the CMS50's and for me this is where these monitors where more at home at. I could pick out each instrument very easy and the vocals sounded amazing and they would work well without a sub for this sort of genre.

But in the end I exchanged my CMS50's with A7X's which will happen on Thursday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay M ➑️
I do feel like I need to have the CMS 50s very close to me. At more than 3 feet away they don't sound right. I don't know if that is the speaker or my room.

This is what I experienced also, if I sat to far away from then they would lack some presence they have when allot closer, especially the lower end, this is with a half decent treated room, could be just our room's though.
Old 12th July 2011 | Show parent
  #47
Registered User
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryoakley ➑️
Any news on this? Which did you go for in the end?
Focal Twin 6 lol
Old 19th December 2011 | Show parent
  #48
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
I'm trying to decide between the CMS50s and the CMS65s. I couldn't afford the sub for another couple years probably.

I produce mostly techno so while low end is important it may be less so than for perhaps a dub step producer...

My room is 13' x 11' with the ceiling 8' high at the back and 10' high at the front. I have my desk at the front end of the room (against one of the 11' wide walls under the 10' high ceiling). I currently have no treatment in the room though do plan to put work into that this next year.

Given that information does anyone have an opinion on which of these monitors I should would go with?

My concern with the CMS65s is that they may be too much for my small room and more than I would be able to use given that I have neighbours to consider.

My concern with the CMS50s is that they won't have enough low end to do accurate work in the bass frequencies.

Thoughts?
Old 19th December 2011
  #49
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
haven't read the thread but blindly i say cms 50 with sub. if possible two!
Old 20th December 2011
  #50
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🎧 10 years
I use the Cms 65s with a sub and really like them. I normally work with the sub bypassed but it's nice to occasionally engage it to hear any potential problems in that range. My control room is 12 x 14 x 8 and even though it's treated with bass traps, the sub can be way too much for a dense mix. I keep the sub engaged more often while working on more sparse arrangements like singer songwriter, VO, solo instruments, etc... Buying the Cms 65s without the sub is going to be fine for most work.

-Kabby
Old 20th December 2011 | Show parent
  #51
Lives for gear
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by metaBit ➑️
I'm trying to decide between the CMS50s and the CMS65s. I couldn't afford the sub for another couple years probably.

I produce mostly techno so while low end is important it may be less so than for perhaps a dub step producer...

My room is 13' x 11' with the ceiling 8' high at the back and 10' high at the front. I have my desk at the front end of the room (against one of the 11' wide walls under the 10' high ceiling). I currently have no treatment in the room though do plan to put work into that this next year.

Given that information does anyone have an opinion on which of these monitors I should would go with?

My concern with the CMS65s is that they may be too much for my small room and more than I would be able to use given that I have neighbours to consider.

My concern with the CMS50s is that they won't have enough low end to do accurate work in the bass frequencies.

Thoughts?
I've had both in my room, and I produce allot of Techno, (allong with more bass heavy stuff) Even for Techno I found the CMS50 lacking far to much low end, the CMS 65's are much better for that. A sub would be needed with the CMS50. The advantage with their design is they can be put in a small room and still sound good, they are not so sensitive to rooms than other monitors.
Old 4th February 2013
  #52
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GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Heard combo and CMS65 alone in the shop (well, less than perfect situation). I guess that most of users don't have well treated rooms.
I believe in 95% of situations combo would be better choice.
Also, (as additional benefit) I prefer to work most of time without subs and turn them on when more focused critical listening of the full range is necessary.
In this price range, nothing come even close to the combo.
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #53
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Doc Mixwell's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang ➑️
In this price range, nothing come even close to the combo.
I would agree completely
And now more than ever, because the entire CMS series is on sale this month.

The Value is over the top on the Focal CMS hardware. It's built really well, sounds amazing.
Still love my CMS50's to death.

Might have to scoop a sub though at some point,
However, in my room, I have zero problems with translation,
So I think it would be for fun, and "client massaging"

Though it sounds killer and would probably make me faster
We've done a lot of work to our control room and the bass response in there is very tight and focused with zero weirdness
Old 17th August 2014 | Show parent
  #54
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TheSubPac.com

the solution
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