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API 2500 metering issue....can anyone help ?
Old 18th November 2009
  #1
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
API 2500 metering issue....can anyone help ?

I've just picked up an API 2500 which i'm using on the master bus of an old Yamaha O2R. The API is great, no doubt, but i'm having a metering issue.

If i run a kick drum track with a signal of -12 on the desk it pushes the API input level just into the red. If i run a full mix, with everything sitting around -4 or thereabouts, the API input level reads so high that the meter batters itself almost constantly off the top (+3 and beyond) of the scale.

I'm having a slap-face-think-again moment, knowing i must be missing something very obvious, but i can't see or understand why the input level is reading so ridiculously hot when the desk isn't.

Anyone care to explain my stupidity ?
Old 18th November 2009
  #2
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Anyone ?
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Anyone else ?
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Registered User
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Honestly I don't know, but how is the meter reading in the Gain Reduction mode and how does the unit sound?
The Yamaha meters aren't readings Dfs are they? Do they go above "0"? I think that is your problem.
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks for your reply.

The O2R meters only go to zero, so it's not that. On the API, with the meter switched to gain reduction it seems fine if i set everything accordingly. The unit sounds good, as expected, yet the input meter makes no sense and it effectively means i have less control over the signal (ie threshold/ratio).

Switching to input mode is pointless. I can deal with the sound the needle makes as it tries to break out of the VU casing, but there is no readable signal unless i stupidly attenuate the desk. Surely that isn't right ?

Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Registered User
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyIronLung ➑️

The O2R meters only go to zero, so it's not that.
If the 02r meters have "0" as the top reading that IS the problem. You need to read up on how analog and digital meters differ. Most digital meters are calibrated to an analog +4 system as -18Dfs is equal to "0" on an analog meter.
If you are reading -12 on a digital meter you will see readings in the +6 range on an averaging analog meter, which would explain the needles banging against the stops.
-4 Dfs meter reading would show as +14 or more on the API which will keep the meters pinned.

I don't say my math is perfect (it is approx) but the difference in metering is real and that is what you are seeing.
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
jeremyglover's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
thumbsup
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Sutton ➑️
If the 02r meters have "0" as the top reading that IS the problem. You need to read up on how analog and digital meters differ. Most digital meters are calibrated to an analog +4 system as -18Dfs is equal to "0" on an analog meter.
If you are reading -12 on a digital meter you will see readings in the +6 range on an averaging analog meter, which would explain the needles banging against the stops.
-4 Dfs meter reading would show as +14 or more on the API which will keep the meters pinned.

I don't say my math is perfect (it is approx) but the difference in metering is real and that is what you are seeing.
Thanks. I understand now - that makes sense of the situation.

My next question would be....given that is my current set up, i assume i shouldn't worry about or bother using the API meter in input mode ?
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyIronLung ➑️
Thanks. I understand now - that makes sense of the situation.

My next question would be....given that is my current set up, i assume i shouldn't worry about or bother using the API meter in input mode ?
Yes, bit when I had one I just used my ears...
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Registered User
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyIronLung ➑️
Thanks. I understand now - that makes sense of the situation.

My next question would be....given that is my current set up, i assume i shouldn't worry about or bother using the API meter in input mode ?
I don't use mine in input mode. But it is showing you that you are running some pretty hot levels and you may want to address that if you are going to be interfacing with more analog gear.
It is just a common issue we see now that we are using analog and digital together. Often when people bring me sessions to mix that have been "in the box" the levels need to be dropped 6-10 dB to interface properly with my analog board.
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks Rick, that's a big help. I probably do mix on the hot side and appreciate your sentiments that i should look at that if i'm going to be bringing stuff like the API into the equation.

Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I don't know if it's true, but I seem to remember being shown that all faders at 0 did not result in unity gain through an 02r - it ran a bit hot as standard. Might be worth checking out. At any rate you need to back off a bit.
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Addict
 
beanface's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Why not phone / email / write to API. I'm sure they'll sort you out without a Spanish inquisition. I've heard really good things about their customer support.
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