Quantcast
Analog Sum under $1500? - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Analog Sum under $1500?
Old 14th November 2009
  #1
Gear Addict
 
ohmsweetohm's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Analog Sum under $1500?

Hi,

I've just recently gotten 16 channels of analog output and now I'm considering a summing box. I like Speck as a company. I like Vince and I really love my Speck MP5 pres so the X-Sum is high on my list, but I'm also curious about the D-Box. I think most other options are out of my price range but if anyone has a suggestion that'd be cool.

Basically my deal right now is that I have a Fireface800, A Steinberg 816x and an Onyx 800R (which is irrelevant except that I might sell it and get another 816x).

I just got the 816x and it's a WEIRD box. The S/PDIF is consumer and it doesn't reclock digital inputs and has practically no routing flexibility, but the DACs are really surprising me with how good they are. I'm liking them a lot better than the FF. The problem is there's no way to get a balanced line input into the 816, so I'm stuck with the FF in terms of getting my sum back into the DAW.

I guess I could go with a Speck and then later add a Rosetta 200 or something to that effect. I wasn't expecting to like the DACs on the 816 so much. If I have 2 816s I could send 2 channels to the Speck from the FF - something lower priority and then use 15/16 from the 816 for my monitor DAC. I wonder how hard it would be to have the inserts on the back of the 816 modded to just be balanced line inputs?

I dunno, anyone have any opinion just on pure sound quality between the Speck/D-Box and anything else under $1500?

Thanks in Advance!
Old 14th November 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
White Falcon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Sorry, this is OT.

But do you use the 816 as AD/DA only, connected to the FF800 ADAT?

If so, does this work ok? Any problems with sync etc?
Old 14th November 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
infiniteposse's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Find a used Dangerous 2-Buss LT. Just got one in the last couple of months and life is a lot better.
Old 14th November 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Addict
 
ohmsweetohm's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Interesting on the used LT. Just curious, have you heard the Speck?
Old 14th November 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Addict
 
ohmsweetohm's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Falcon ➑️
Sorry, this is OT.

But do you use the 816 as AD/DA only, connected to the FF800 ADAT?

If so, does this work ok? Any problems with sync etc?
I just got it last week so, yeah that's way I'm planning on using it. At the moment I have it the other way around just because I wanted to test the 816 as an interface, but it really doesn't work well in that regard.

I think where I'm going to wind up is doing what you said, but I think I'm going to clock the FF off the 816, even tho the FF will be the main computer interface. Since I'm using the 816 as my monitor DAC, I want it to clock internally. And I already know that the FF reclocks any incoming signal and plays nice with basically everything.

Right now the FF is clocking to the 816 with no problem, so I'm basically keeping that clocking scheme and just switching which one is talking to the computer. This lets me use totalmix and digicheck as well which I'm pretty dependent on.
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
RCM - Ronan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I paid $1500 for this console: 36 channel summing plus EQ, mic pres, routing and monitor controller
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Addict
 
ohmsweetohm's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Looks nice. I can't tell from the photo, what is it?
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
maxhype's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Black Lion Audio is doing a mod of the PM8 Summing box which I'm really curious to hear.

It's only 8 channels but well under your price range...

Black Lion Audio | Black Lion Audio PM8 Summing Box
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
White Falcon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmsweetohm ➑️
I just got it last week so, yeah that's way I'm planning on using it. At the moment I have it the other way around just because I wanted to test the 816 as an interface, but it really doesn't work well in that regard.

I think where I'm going to wind up is doing what you said, but I think I'm going to clock the FF off the 816, even tho the FF will be the main computer interface. Since I'm using the 816 as my monitor DAC, I want it to clock internally. And I already know that the FF reclocks any incoming signal and plays nice with basically everything.

Right now the FF is clocking to the 816 with no problem, so I'm basically keeping that clocking scheme and just switching which one is talking to the computer. This lets me use totalmix and digicheck as well which I'm pretty dependent on.
Great, thanks!

I'm thinking about buying the 816 and only use its nice pres and converters. I have a RME RayDAT card, and yeah, the totalmix and digicheck is very good!

Regarding the summing, i'm with rcm on this one; a nice console is imho better than just a "plain" summing box. Though i would not use it as a monitor controller as the monitor section on even pretty expensive desks are a bit colored. I use a Soundcraft board for summing and/or mixing. But i have a separate monitor controller which is way more transparant. If you want a cleaner path (more like a summing box) through the board, just go in through the channel inserts and out through the main mix inserts. I sometimes do this if i have lots of transients in the music i'm mixing.
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Addict
 
ohmsweetohm's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
If you have a mixer where you really like the EQ I could see it I guess, but I don't know of a mixer for under $5k that I would really say is worth it unless you stumble on some crazy deal. Figure you're giving up recall and adding a lot of extra circuitry even if you do go in/out via the inserts.

I've owned analog consoles before. It's really overkill for what I'm after. My thing is really that I don't like digital compression. EQ is another story. There are analog EQs that I really like but in that case it's the high end stuff. For channel EQ, I'm pretty happy with what plug-ins have to offer.

Actually the 2bus LT is under my price range brand new. The Speck offers level adjustment and pan. I dunno, I'm still leaning toward the Speck unless someone has actually heard them both and feels the D2busLT really sounds better. The Speck certainly seems more flexible.
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
infiniteposse's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Nope, haven't heard the Speck. The Dangerous was just appealing to me with it's very stripped down approach to what it does. The panning/lack of doesn't bother me at all. Recall of mixes takes 2 seconds and you're there. Stereo pairs allow for total control of panning in my DAW which is fine for me. I like that it does less. Less in the signal path

Good luck!
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
666666's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
The Speck X.Sum is the only thing I'll sum through right now... until I get a LiLo. Mine's been wired up in "summing position" for quite a while now... extremely happy with it (have two actually).

You cannot go wrong with an X.Sum. It can't be beat, sonically and ergonomically speaking, regardless of cost. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
You should also check into the JCF audio LEVR / Roll RMS216 combo??? It's a very nice passive rig, a lil over the 1500 budget, but still realistic... Also, the Shadow Hills Equinox is a 5K investment, but will give you an amazing palette... Like having 3 summing box in one PLUS the whole monitoring section PLUS the possibility of using the makeup gain amps as a pair of versatile mic pre's that you ALSO can use with all 3 output transformers... Gotta look into it, this is an investment, but much more than a simple summing box... Cheers.
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
RCM - Ronan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmsweetohm ➑️
Looks nice. I can't tell from the photo, what is it?
It was a D&R series 4000 mkII. (still is, but I sold it when I moved up to a bigger D&R
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
flute player's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You can always ask HCL to make one around this price.

Check out this link summing mixer

greetz,

Paul
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Addict
 
ohmsweetohm's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 ➑️
The Speck X.Sum is the only thing I'll sum through right now... until I get a LiLo. Mine's been wired up in "summing position" for quite a while now... extremely happy with it (have two actually).

You cannot go wrong with an X.Sum. It can't be beat, sonically and ergonomically speaking, regardless of cost. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Sounds good. Have you tested others or did you just jump in with the Speck and never look back? Again, I'm a big fan of Vince.
Old 16th November 2009 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Addict
 
ohmsweetohm's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks guys!

I haven't been on a D&R in..... A looong time. Nice boards tho.
Old 16th November 2009 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Nut
 
djejnyc's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have to plus one on the Folcrom, if you have some mic pres. It's been working really, really great for me....
Old 16th November 2009 | Show parent
  #20
dnagerous D-box has the same internal "summing" section as the 2bus LT.

2-bus is different.

money is tight? how many channels? 16?
Old 16th November 2009 | Show parent
  #21
70% Coffee, 30% Beer
 
Doc Mixwell's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_Bonnier ➑️
You should also check into the JCF audio LEVR / Roll RMS216 combo??? It's a very nice passive rig, a lil over the 1500 budget, but still realistic...


Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #22
Gear Addict
 
ohmsweetohm's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hmmmm....somehow I unsubscribed myself to this thread. Thanks Adam! And everyone else!
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Addict
 
ohmsweetohm's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hey Adam!

I already have 2 Speck MP5(s). Whaddya think? Would that work with the Folcrom in place of the JCF? I actually love the sound of the specks when I run a mix in the line ins and out the trannys. Would the JCF sound a LOT better or a little or just different? I'm thinking this would be like buying the Speck summer but for 1/2 the price (not including what I already paid for the pres). I'm thinking this could be pretty flexible since I'm also gonna be slipping a 1969 in there.

Ok, just read the description on Mercenary.com. Answers my question . This looks like a great solution!

Thanks Again!
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #24
70% Coffee, 30% Beer
 
Doc Mixwell's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmsweetohm ➑️
Hey Adam!

I already have 2 Speck MP5(s). Whaddya think? Would that work with the Folcrom in place of the JCF? I actually love the sound of the specks when I run a mix in the line ins and out the trannys. Would the JCF sound a LOT better or a little or just different? I'm thinking this would be like buying the Speck summer but for 1/2 the price (not including what I already paid for the pres). I'm thinking this could be pretty flexible since I'm also gonna be slipping a 1969 in there.

Thanks!
Those will work just fine! That's the beauty and simplicity of the RMS216.

Using the JCF LEVR pair opposed to your Specks is just going to sound different, not worse or even necessarily "better". However, the LEVR doesn't suck. Those things sound wide as the ocean with a depth injection. Overall I think it has a very attractive response when you throw characterful equipment in context. The choice is just up to your preference for your work. I'd say if you like the Speck with a Line Input, you will enjoy using 30-40 odd DB of gain over the mix with the RMS216.
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Addict
 
beanface's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Broadcast pro audio, Australia.
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Addict
 
ohmsweetohm's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell ➑️
Those will work just fine! That's the beauty and simplicity of the RMS216.

Using the JCF LEVR pair opposed to your Specks is just going to sound different, not worse or even necessarily "better". However, the LEVR doesn't suck. Those things sound wide as the ocean with a depth injection. Overall I think it has a very attractive response when you throw characterful equipment in context. The choice is just up to your preference for your work. I'd say if you like the Speck with a Line Input, you will enjoy using 30-40 odd DB of gain over the mix with the RMS216.
Very cool! Yes, I love the Specks. More and more each time I use them. I really love the idea of dual use of mic pres. I'm all about squeezing every last drop out of everything I own and trying to avoid redundancies. Already I would have both the tranny and the active balance options in the Specks, plus I could go into the pres on 69, and who knows, good excuse to pick up a mate to my Great River .

The only thing I wonder about is if you get a noticeable improvement from sum boxes that have level controls, for the reason that you can hit the DACs at full strength. Of course you then have 16 individual attenuators in the overall mix.

I guess if you have prisms or some really classy DACs it doesn't make that much difference. In my case it might (8/FF800, 8/MR816x).
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #27
the summing device is very important. using just a box with resistors on a PCB might not make any difference.

I even notice a difference with my motu HD192.. it's HD192 => shadowhill equinox => outboard => HD192...

making things loud as possible because of leveltrims is not a good solution. you need to learn how to make a more compact mix. get rid of all those small peaks..

cheers
G

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmsweetohm ➑️
Very cool! Yes, I love the Specks. More and more each time I use them. I really love the idea of dual use of mic pres. I'm all about squeezing every last drop out of everything I own and trying to avoid redundancies. Already I would have both the tranny and the active balance options in the Specks, plus I could go into the pres on 69, and who knows, good excuse to pick up a mate to my Great River .

The only thing I wonder about is if you get a noticeable improvement from sum boxes that have level controls, for the reason that you can hit the DACs at full strength. Of course you then have 16 individual attenuators in the overall mix.

I guess if you have prisms or some really classy DACs it doesn't make that much difference. In my case it might (8/FF800, 8/MR816x).
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #28
Gear Maniac
 
Bolt Thrower's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have one of these, it was about $750:

Passive Summing Box | Passivmix | Signal Audio Workshop

Manual is here.

Pretty handy, as it has 16 1/4" inputs, stereo mic level out, and 2 optional attenuation settings.
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Addict
 
ohmsweetohm's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The plot thickens . Thanks for this tip. Looks good!
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Addict
 
ohmsweetohm's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola ➑️
the summing device is very important. using just a box with resistors on a PCB might not make any difference.

I even notice a difference with my motu HD192.. it's HD192 => shadowhill equinox => outboard => HD192...

making things loud as possible because of leveltrims is not a good solution. you need to learn how to make a more compact mix. get rid of all those small peaks..

cheers
G
I'm sorry, I don't get the joke

My thought is that you get a benefit from having all signals hitting the DAC with say a -6 to -3(dbfs) peak as opposed to actually balancing levels in the DAW which could lead to low levels hitting at -15 to -25. I'm guessing you think this isn't as bad as introducing analog attenuators?
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 57 views: 14410
Avatar for Scrypt
Scrypt 29th January 2021
replies: 51 views: 5542
Avatar for woodfoot
woodfoot 26th April 2009
replies: 86 views: 14089
Avatar for nickknack
nickknack 30th January 2021
replies: 154 views: 36741
Avatar for jack001
jack001 29th April 2021
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump