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Perfect summation of Craigslist and where I live
Old 14th November 2009
  #1
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Perfect summation of Craigslist and where I live

I think it pretty much speaks for itself. I thought some of the folks around here might enjoy this listing:


"* seeking sensitive recording engineer *

* i am a wild creative work in progress ~*~ singer, pianist guitarist and sometimes percussionist ...

i have lots of "practice" tracks in the hopper and i am hungry to take my music

to my next level ....i am hoping to connect with a very talented recording engineer

who loves my music ....it's trancey & unclssifyable & gorgeous & hynotic & sacred ...

i have amazing musicians to come and play with me ....

please write to me if you are interested to work on creating some beautiful art with me ....

i am needing to make some kind of deal where we BOTH can make money on the other

side of production ...

it's time to believe in myself ...hope i find the purrrfect fit where there is something in it for you too !

thanks

[cliched hippie diva]"
Old 14th November 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I'm sure this guy and his army of clones visit my studio regularly.

They seem to think I can pay my bills with "future considerations" and with-held masters.

Not to say I don't do the odd spec deal, but it's pretty rare.
Old 14th November 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
carllock's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey, where is the posting "I'm the next Biggie or Tupac"?
Old 14th November 2009
  #4
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by betamatt ➑️

it's time to believe in myself ...hope i find the purrrfect fit where there is something in it for you too !

thanks

[cliched hippie diva]"
"diva''? a girl? first I'll need to see a photo...
Old 14th November 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Unknown soldier's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You are up North of SF. Sounds like a rich kid who doesn't need to work and hangs out at home all day. Parents are off at the winery making millions. fuuck
Old 14th November 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
sonoma county

Hmm, sounds familiar..
Old 14th November 2009
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
.. it's time to believe in myself .."
..but not quite enough to offer anything up front to demonstrate it.
Old 14th November 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Addict
 
Raider's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Odds are you're right.
But ya never know.
There are some talented but very ethereal people out there.
Old 14th November 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
You_Father_Sky's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Free work? No.

No.

*cough* no.

Unless she's a giver and wants to make it worth your while. *cough*

Perhaps.

You know I always find it amazing that the same clients who try to work you into doing free work by giving you a sob story are always able to come up with money for beer, weed, a new guitar, a new waffle maker, etc etc etc.
Old 14th November 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by You_Father_Sky ➑️

You know I always find it amazing that the same clients who try to work you into doing free work by giving you a sob story are always able to come up with money for beer, weed, a new guitar, a new waffle maker, etc etc etc.
That's different. People need waffle makers to feed their family!
Old 14th November 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Hey, you never know. She may be dirt poor and just trying to find some way to get her thing on, and maybe amazing. By any means necessary and all that. The gotcha, it seems to me, is that even in the best of times, even if the artist is very good, the odds of a payoff are way small. These days, they are hugely smaller. Believing in yourself might be the only actual musical activity that happens in the future.
Old 14th November 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
SANDS's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
You should redirect them to the nearest school that teaches spelling and grammar.
Old 14th November 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
You_Father_Sky's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️
That's different. People need waffle makers to feed their family!
Touche my friend... touche.
Old 14th November 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
you should have posted a link for free vomit bags with that ad.
Old 14th November 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Kush Audio
 
u b k's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Call me crazy, but I reckon it never hurts to ask. She knows what she wants, she asked.

I find it fascinating to see the patronizing responses and utterly fantastical stories which that kind of simple, direct approach activates in grown men.

It's a bit disheartening to see the degree to which 'spending money' has been equated with belief and faith, to the exclusion of any of other form or manifestation.


Gregory Scott - ubk
.
Old 14th November 2009 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
dpianomn's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
What's so wrong with her throwing herself out there like that? It seems as though a lot of engineers complain that people aren't willing/able to cough up a significant amount of cash, and then they complain that these same people aren't spending ANY money because they're recording at home with an m-box.

She just wants to make music--give her credit for being wise enough to seek out the help of someone who knows how to record it.

Money isn't everything.
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
SANDS's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k ➑️
Call me crazy, but I reckon it never hurts to ask. She knows what she wants, she asked.

I find it fascinating to see the patronizing responses and utterly fantastical stories which that kind of simple, direct approach activates in grown men.

It's a bit disheartening to see the degree to which 'spending money' has been equated with belief and faith, to the exclusion of any of other form or manifestation.


Gregory Scott - ubk
.

You are right, but I believe most of us that have been there before, and maybe too many times-- are pretty much worn out and tired of this stuff, for sure we are stereotyping, but there's a reason at least for me to think that way or at least to consider it.
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Yes taking the high road is always better.
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpianomn ➑️
What's so wrong with her throwing herself out there like that? It seems as though a lot of engineers complain that people aren't willing/able to cough up a significant amount of cash, and then they complain that these same people aren't spending ANY money because they're recording at home with an m-box.

She just wants to make music--give her credit for being wise enough to seek out the help of someone who knows how to record it.

Money isn't everything.
Nothing is wrong with it per se, but I'm not going to rush to the phone and call her.

At least make the effort to book an appointment at my studio, bring a gtr or hop on the piano, and play some music so I can at least make a decision. Do SOMETHING instead of sitting at your computer typing an ad.

In many cases I have put someone who is honest about their art, but broke (even owning a computer is another world for some people), in front of a mic with their guitar, hit record, and sent them on their way with a CD in their hand.

Not only to give them something, but because I want to hear what they have because just maybe, they might be something I find interesting enough to my ears to get personally involved with.

These people are different that young kids who drive nice vehicles, have nice guitar, come in and say "You are lucky to get to record me"

I have a family and a mortgage. Reality sucks but it is what it is.
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
You_Father_Sky's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by los marbles ➑️
Do SOMETHING instead of sitting at your computer typing an ad.
___________

I have a family and a mortgage. Reality sucks but it is what it is.
DITTO. It's not that we all haven't done work for cheap, or for free, in fact there have been many times when I have put myself out there for the sake of the art, because I believed in someone's ideas. But at some point you have to put a price on your skills, your work and your time, otherwise you'll find it hard getting people to take you seriously. Do I scoff at the people who ask me for this kind of a favour? no, of course not, whether or not I have a good feeling about them, because I consider myself a professional.

I got to study under Jack Richardson, he MORTGAGED HIS HOUSE so he could produce The Guess Who's first record... that is the epitome of putting yourself out on a limb because you believe in someone's art. But that was a long time ago, and he took a massive risk. It did work out for them but that isn't common place, certainly not these days. For most of us it IS about making a living doing what we love... but make no mistake we ARE trying to make a living.

I don't think we're trying to make a critical judgment of this person's character. We're having a harmless laugh about the many people who DO try and take advantage, this person's post was merely the catalyst. She's probably a wonderful person and hey, she might have a bitchin waffle maker. Not for me to decide.
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
stuntbutt's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I find it very difficult to respect people that ask for anything for free. To her defense, she probably doesn't realize that is what she is doing.
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #23
Kush Audio
 
u b k's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntbutt ➑️
I find it very difficult to respect people that ask for anything for free.

Why? Why not respect them and their wishes, and simply say "No thanks, but good luck"?

I can see her situation being a great fit for someone, maybe someone who's got talent and potential but has no reel, no experience, no commercially viable setup. Maybe --- shocker --- they love engineering but don't want to get all wrapped up in making a business out of it. This board alone has more people that fit that description than not.

The negative reactionary judgments still perplex me.

If she were looking for a drummer, or a bass player, nobody would bat an eye, because (ironically) it is ok for musicians to be asked to give their talents over to a project. But ask for a recording engineer to sign up for a similar arrangement and watch the sparks fly.

Apparently, people value the talents of the recordist more than the talents of the people who generate the music to be recorded. I can easily imagine a universe where the opposite is true, where people with a love and passion for recording pay artists for the privilege of recording their art.

It's all arbitrary. We exist within a completely arbitrary framework of inherited values, and we judge others for failing to meet our arbitrary expectations. Self vs. other, the neverending drama.


Gregory Scott - ubk
.
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
You_Father_Sky's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k ➑️
If she were looking for a drummer, or a bass player, nobody would bat an eye, because (ironically) it is ok for musicians to be asked to give their talents over to a project. But ask for a recording engineer to sign up for a similar arrangement and watch the sparks fly.
There are plenty of musicians who play with financial compensation in mind, they are called, session musicians.

A musician who plays for art, and a musician who plays for money are very different animals. That's not to say that they don't both want to be financially compensated, OR that they both don't play for the love of it. They do, but it's a path, and each path has a shift in focus.

I think that a better way to convey the idea is that; it's hard to respect someone who expects a professional, to do free work, as opposed to an amateur. Meaning of course, someone who is making a living doing it as opposed to someone who is a hobbyist. Which is the difference between a session musician and a the average player.

If I were to post that ad and ask for a hobby engineer to work together on a project for free than THAT would be acceptable, it would be the same as getting together musicians to start a band. But I would target the amateur, not the professional. I wouldn't call Steve Smith and expect him to fly up to Canada to do some work... for free, or for the love of it.
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