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Questions For thethrillfactor about the SBM2
Old 13th May 2003
  #1
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Questions For thethrillfactor about the SBM2

Hi thethrillfactor,

Knowing that you are using the SBM2 summing box from boutique audio. How do you incooperate it in you mixing setup. Since, Jules had explained his Dangerous-2-bus set up, I am interested in others; how do you split the duties between plugins and Hardware outboards? Do you use analog inserts on your Daw I/O or do you avoid the extra step of AD by putting the compressor between thr DAW I/O and SBM2. The things that boggles me is how you guys deal with the FX send (pre/Post) when using as Analog Summing box?

As I am planning to get some kind of analog summing device. Hoping to get more info in terms of an actual mixing situation.

Thanks for you reply in advance

Rainchild
Old 13th May 2003
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Renie's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
a side note

the thrillfactor for guest mod spot please!!! Jules? ttf?
Old 13th May 2003
  #3
Gear Guru
 
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Re: Questions For thethrillfactor about the SBM2

Quote:
Originally posted by Rainchild
Hi thethrillfactor,

Knowing that you are using the SBM2 summing box from boutique audio. How do you incooperate it in you mixing setup. Since, Jules had explained his Dangerous-2-bus set up, I am interested in others; how do you split the duties between plugins and Hardware outboards? Do you use analog inserts on your Daw I/O or do you avoid the extra step of AD by putting the compressor between thr DAW I/O and SBM2. The things that boggles me is how you guys deal with the FX send (pre/Post) when using as Analog Summing box?

As I am planning to get some kind of analog summing device. Hoping to get more info in terms of an actual mixing situation.

Thanks for you reply in advance

Rainchild
My setup now is a bit complicated.

Originally it was simple, 16 outs from PT to the SBM2 and out of the SBM2 to a comp/EQ off to Hedd or 1/2"inch.

Over the last few months I have modified it a touch. The more I work with it the more I see that its important to be able to monitor through the box when mixing(not just sum at the end).

So what I've done is rewired my studio to work around it.

Basically i have now the 24 outs(from PT) going to a patchbay. Now 16 of the 24 are also going to a parallel patchbay(groups of 3-6 patch points each). From these parallel points I patch into the outboard units(mostly dynamics) and the returns go back into PT. As i am monitoring the returns(through PT in rec mode) I am sending the corresponding outputs for these tracks to the inputs of the SBM2. So I can monitor through it as i a making changes. Now once the core of the dynamic processing is done(EQ's and dynamics) I work on the effects. I have 8 AES/digital effect units(DSP7000,KSP8,Quantec QRS,and PCM91/Fireworx(soon to be the new SP2016) and the rest are analog(something like 40 effect units). On the digital effect units I monitor those digitally with a pair of outputs going to the SBM-2 and the analog ones I use the similar chain as dynamics(monitoring in rec mode in PT) with a pair or pairs going to the SBM-2.

By the way I track everything I monitor in PT(for recalls in the future). I don't use as many plugs as lot of people actually(only the Oxford EQ and Auto tune). I am getting some others that I want to check out but I generally prefer the outboard stuff.

So in the end it looks like this:

SBM-2 1-16

1)Kick(3-4 tracks in PT)
2)snare(4-6 tracks in PT)
3)Bass(3-4 tracks in PT)
4-5(Stereo drum picture-(hats,cymbals,toms,perc)
6-7)Drum/bass submix(comp/EQ)
8)Lead vocal(maybe 2-3 tracks in PT)
9-10)Lead vocal effects
11-12)Back ground pairs
13-14)Background effects
15-16)Stereo info and effects for rest of tracks

Now this might change form time to time(stereo guitars for eg) but its pretty consistent for me.

I have started to contimplate adding a Speck Xtramix for my effect submixes(that way i can use all of my effect processors at once).

And also I have thought about adding another SBM-2(an extra 16 inputs to seperate things further). I also like the pans in the front. I can make changes on the fly when mixing down(for added dimension in the mixes).

One last thing, a side note to the SBM-2 it the summing cicuit was designed by John Hall. He is the designer of the Langevin mic pre's and Sphere consoles. His summing circuit is pretty popular. You can find it in a lot of API consoles and Neve's.
Old 13th May 2003
  #4
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Re: a side note

Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
the thrillfactor for guest mod spot please!!! Jules? ttf?
Hey Renie....


What are you trying to do get me in trouble?

Old 14th May 2003
  #5
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Renie's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
haha!!

What, for asking?! Or you don't trust yourself not to get into deep water!!?

Old 14th May 2003
  #6
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
haha!!

What, for asking?! Or you don't trust yourself not to get into deep water!!?

Probably both.

Old 14th May 2003
  #7
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Thrill,

With the option of 1/2" or HEDD / masterlink (I think you said you run a masterlink copy)... what's your usual pick and why...
Old 14th May 2003
  #8
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by buickwilson
Thrill,

With the option of 1/2" or HEDD / masterlink (I think you said you run a masterlink copy)... what's your usual pick and why...
Depends on the music.

Most of the time i like the 1/2" because of how the bass spreads on it and it can make a mix sound huge. Also i use it as an effect.

The problem is some of my clients don't want to pay for the tape(or carry it around), so they rather go with the other.

That's when I go HEDD into Masterlink/PT at 88.2K or 44.1K.

Now I am considering buying a PC laptop and going HEDD to either Sequoia/Samplitude/Wavelab or Pyramix.

A lot of the mastering guys are using these programs. I am starting to wonder how the Masterlink does its stuff. Sometimes I feel it doesn't sound the same when I transfer the AIFF files and play them in a computer. Maybe the converters on the Masterlink are tricking me.grudge

Also its starting to make weird noises.

Soon it will be thisfuuck for the MASTERLINK!!
Old 14th May 2003
  #9
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Now I am considering buying a PC laptop and going HEDD to either Sequoia/Samplitude/Wavelab or Pyramix.
Been having similar thoughts.. I figure it's hard to match the vibe of what a good 1/2" machine can do, but I keep having second thoughts, given the $5-6K investment to get into a decent machine, plus maintenance, plus client's willingness to buy tape versus getting a HEDD and running into a mastering program.

Thanks for the comments
Old 14th May 2003
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
FWIW (Slightly OT) for those wanting to know about Sequoia, I've been using it for years now as my main DAW for both mastering and mixing... I record right to it as well as transfer stuff in...

If anybody has questions about how things work with it, I'm happy to help out...

Also, since Boutique Audio has been brought up, how many have used the Inward Connections tube limiter? It is another of my favorite pieces of gear....

--Ben
Old 14th May 2003
  #11
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by fifthcircle
FWIW (Slightly OT) for those wanting to know about Sequoia, I've been using it for years now as my main DAW for both mastering and mixing... I record right to it as well as transfer stuff in...

If anybody has questions about how things work with it, I'm happy to help out...

Also, since Boutique Audio has been brought up, how many have used the Inward Connections tube limiter? It is another of my favorite pieces of gear....

--Ben
Hey Ben,

Its the same one that Steve made in the rack version(same sound). Nice, transparent and open. I think because of the demand the ALGE Bros. created he decided to make the limiter/comps as a stereo unit.

I think you still have the rack with the modules don't you?
Old 14th May 2003
  #12
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Its the same one that Steve made in the rack version(same sound). Nice, transparent and open. I think because of the demand the ALGE Bros. created he decided to make the limiter/comps as a stereo unit.
It is indeed... The Vac Rac modular system came first and eventually they made a stand-alone dual mono/stereo rackmount version. IMO, it is one of the most transparent limiters out there. I love using it them on jazz shows where I want a little bit of limiting, but don't want audible compression. I've also used it for mastering... I had a producer that was a bit over-zealous on the snare in the mix of a show I did. I used the limiter to help squash the transients of the heavy snare hits and get the balance to be a bit closer to what sounded right.

Quote:
I think you still have the rack with the modules don't you?
They aren't actually mine.. I know the guy that did most of the design of the Vac Rac line. He has a ton of the gear (obviously) and I can use it whenever I need to. While I love the limiters, the other module I really like is the Preamp. There was a 10 channel box that was made on a limited production run early on... Most didn't sell particularly well so the person I know has most of them. 10 channels of tube pres in a 4 space rack (including ventilation) and a second 3 space for the power supply. The sound is just to die for... Natural and warm with great transient response, but not tubby with a lot of tube saturation. Dual outputs for splitting to multitrack and to a console. They are the perfect for location gigs I go on (mostly acoustic music).

The stuff is now sold under Inward Connections through Boutique Audio... I was going to get one of his monitor controllers, but I instead opted for a passive Coleman box. Anyways, I can't say enough great things about the lines that Steve is producing.

--Ben
Old 14th May 2003
  #13
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by fifthcircle


The stuff is now sold under Inward Connections through Boutique Audio... I was going to get one of his monitor controllers, but I instead opted for a passive Coleman box. Anyways, I can't say enough great things about the lines that Steve is producing.

--Ben
Even though I haven't heard it, I've heard great stuff about his monitoring box.

And the guys that are using the tube mixer/frontend thingy say its a killer!!!!

The summing box is fantastic.

The Boutique guys said they've already designed a couple of mixers built around the summing box. With faders and auxes.

I think the last one was a 32 channel unit sent to Dave Way in LA.
Old 24th August 2003
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
SBM2, Manley, D2B shootout

Hi Thrill:

I thought I read in a thread that you were going to do a shoot out of all of these summing mixers....I may have missed your post of the outcome and what you found during your shootout.

I seriously curious about your findings...

Mojava
Old 24th August 2003
  #15
Gear Guru
 
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Re: SBM2, Manley, D2B shootout

Quote:
Originally posted by mojava
Hi Thrill:

I thought I read in a thread that you were going to do a shoot out of all of these summing mixers....I may have missed your post of the outcome and what you found during your shootout.

I seriously curious about your findings...

Mojava
I did the shootout long ago(before I bought the SBM2).

I liked the SBM2 of the three. It was the closest to the sound of a "console" to my ears. The Dangerous box was too neutral(which is not a bad thing for mastering, but for music mixing it was a little too seperate). The Manley was a little "too colored"(same sound on everything). The SBM2 helped the tracks to gel well and it still sounded huge.

Since then I traded it to a studio I freelance at(for a TG1 compressor). They loved the way it made the mixes coming out of PT(even though i had a little to do with it).heh

Soon i will get to test out the new Purple Audio summing mixer. It looks like a killer system. You can build it up as need be. Also what's cool is that they give you a choice of summing transformers(neutral or sowter's for some color). You can either rack it or use it on a table top.

It looks like it will be a hit at AES.
Old 25th August 2003
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Purple Audio Mixer

Hi Thrill:

I checked out their website it does indeed look impressive. Have you heard any word on the street about how they are planning to price it??? Will it be comparable to a manley or a D2b??

Anything else that you can share about the Purple Audio unit would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mojava
Old 25th August 2003
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Who makes the SBM2?
Old 25th August 2003
  #18
Gear Nut
 
jmusic3's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Inward Connections.

-J
Old 25th August 2003
  #19
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cashewcupcake's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: Re: SBM2, Manley, D2B shootout

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor


Soon i will get to test out the new Purple Audio summing mixer..

Ooh sounds exiciting. GML also makes a mixer (real mixer not just summing) for like 45K for 16 channels and I think Millenia does too. Then again, if you can afford 45K just for summing you may as well rent time on a big desk right?

I don't have the purple 76 but they did do all my cabling and compared to 4 other custom cable shops theirs ws by far the cleanest. They even used purple shrink wap! heh
Old 25th August 2003
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
man;ey summing mixer

I must say that I am leaning torwards the Manley. I have heard this unit and it sounds very good. Open, great imaging and besides Evanna, and Hutch have provide me with exceptional service over the years.

Still intereste at looking at the purple audio...seems solid..
Old 25th August 2003
  #21
Gear Guru
 
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Re: Purple Audio Mixer

Quote:
Originally posted by mojava
Hi Thrill:

I checked out their website it does indeed look impressive. Have you heard any word on the street about how they are planning to price it??? Will it be comparable to a manley or a D2b??

Anything else that you can share about the Purple Audio unit would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mojava
Hi Mojava,

You didn't hear this from me...(around $7500).

It will be better than the two above because it is a board with auxes,group outs, monitor outputs. They will have 2 different versions, one simple for the simple DAW guy(Voice overs and such) where basics are good enough. The other will be for the engineer and this one is more elaborate.

I know the guys who have designed/built it, so I know it will be a serious piece of gear.
Old 26th August 2003
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Nutmeg II.'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Why not building a DIY summing buss?!?
Build one like this and use a 990 or a 2520 for makeup gain.

BTW I see all that racked Neve modules in studios which were taken from consoles, so there should be some Neve summing blocks on the marked. Maybe one should try to build a summing buss out of that!?!
Old 16th May 2004
  #23
jho
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🎧 15 years
So Thrill did you ever check out the Purple summing mixer? What did you think?
Old 16th May 2004
  #24
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thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jho
So Thrill did you ever check out the Purple summing mixer? What did you think?
Yes.


thumbsup


I didn't buy it but instead bought a Tac Tec M4000, a more useful mixer for my productions.

If you can find one used at a great price, buy it.

You won't regret it.
Old 16th May 2004
  #25
jho
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Yes.


thumbsup


I didn't buy it but instead bought a Tac Tec M4000, a more useful mixer for my productions.
Do you have a link on that?

I started a thread about a month ago, I want to invest in some new gear for my studio primarily composing/producing/mixing. I want a console with some great pre's and such for tracking that would also do well as a summing mixer...I think. Still contemplating. Do I want something like a d2b, inwards, maybe neotek or should I look elsewhere. hm.
Old 16th May 2004
  #26
Gear Guru
 
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jho
Do you have a link on that?

I started a thread about a month ago, I want to invest in some new gear for my studio primarily composing/producing/mixing. I want a console with some great pre's and such for tracking that would also do well as a summing mixer...I think. Still contemplating. Do I want something like a neotek or should I look elsewhere. hm.
Well it depends on the way you work.

Automation and total reset are important for the way i work( i am working on a bunch of songs at the same time).

Its great when you can press a button and boom the mix is up the way you had it before.

The one drawback are the EQ's.

It is very similar in sound to a Neotek.
Old 16th May 2004
  #27
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jho
Do you have a link on that?
This is our forumn:


http://www.slaughterhousestudio.com/...4000/index.php


We are few right now, but i suspect with the mods that are being done on it, the desire for guys who are used to mixing in PT but want to make that analog move and also the price, it will grow eventually.
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