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Anyone else excited about the inminent release of Altiverb for PT?
Old 27th July 2002
  #1
Lives for gear
 
joris de man's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Anyone else excited about the inminent release of Altiverb for PT?

Apperently Altiverb, the plugin that does a similar reverb technique to the Sony DRSE-777 sampling reverb, will be released at the beginning of august for VST and RTAS, and I believe for HTDM also.
It works by taking impulse responses from famous acoustic spaces (such as the Amsterdam Concertgebouw, Vredenburgh and recently, 3 french cathedrals) and applying them to an audiosignal.
I've had the opportunity to play with the DP3 version of it and it sounds fantastic.
You could also snapshot a few favourite reverb units (960? M6000?) or plates and store those as impulses.

Yep, this really floats my boat!

Cheerio,

Joe
Old 27th July 2002
  #2
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Sounds very cool to me!

Old 27th July 2002
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
The current Altiverb hogs pretty much an entire G4 500MHz Mac. Don't expect that Mac to do much else besides Altiverb.

Their "secret weapon" is Altivec instructions as an integral component of their algo. You may know me as a PC guy, but I try to stay current all around and have stated many times that a G5 Mac or other newsworthy Apple speed development that put Macs at a clear speed advantage would make me a Mac user, no problem. I was really excited when Altivec was announced and thought I might be switching platforms if it panned out as promised. Hey, I'm an optimist.

Anyway, Altivec is an amazing technogical acheivement. When a single, relatively task-specific, Altivec optimized app can "own" the computer, Altivec totally rocks. On something like the RC5 encryption cracking client, the Altivec enabled version has about a 3:1 advantage. In that case, a 1GHz G4 just fries P4s and Athlons. About 3:1-4:1 by relative clock speed. Incredible, really. Steve Job's wet dream.

That's the good news. The bad news is, Altivec does not play well in a crowd. Multitasking environments (which a DAW actually is, all under one app) cause most of Altivec's benefits to disappear. AFAIK, the start/stop, CPU sharing nature of a DAW largely negates Altivec, because the way Altivec is pipelined, it never gets out of first gear before being interrupted by some other "got to happen right now" task.

That's why when Emagic added Altivec support, instead of the second coming, it was more like "is it turned on, or not?" My point is, unless these guys have discovered some new trick, either Altiverb will choke down your PT computer pretty handily, or else be somewhat less powerful than the standalone version.

At least, that's my prediction, based upon every Altivec enabled music app/plugin I've seen, which are pretty rare at this point, for the above reasons. If these guys get around this issue, it might pave the way for other developers as well.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 27th July 2002
  #4
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
I'm excited enough about it to consider dedicating a G4/500 to Altiverb! (at least during mixdowns.

I just moved one of my PT rigs to a G4/933 (the other is in a G4/533) - so I currently have the G4/500 in the office - running Live and demoing Reason.

If I do this what would you guys recommend for I/O for the Altiverb only machine? (It wouldn't really be Altiverb only - itll run Logic and Live and....)
Motu896?
Old 28th July 2002
  #5
Lives for gear
 
joris de man's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
BrainT,

I have to agree with you there on some points. Altiverb is indeed, a cpu hog (at least the DP3 version I tested, but I presume the performance for RTAS/VST will be the same), but the soundquality more than makes up for it.
I've heard the AudioEase guys mention on a demo that they didn't think the same kind of performance would be possible on a pc yet, since the Altivec number crunching that was going on was quite heavy.
On my G4-400 it takes about 80-90 percent of the processing power in no latency mode, for a true stereo impulse response of about 4 sec.

What I like about this kind of reverb though is that it sounds wider and more realistic than any 'artificial' reverb I've heard. Stuff that is processed more wet actually sounds further away instead of just more boomy and 'verby'
Downsides are limited customisation (just tweaking the tail and predelay) and massive amounts of cpu power.
But with some of the new models coming out in august I can see the latter becoming less of a problem.

Now if there was only a way to use those Sony impulse responses in Altiverb........yuktyy

Cheers,

Joe
Old 28th July 2002
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I've heard good things about the sound. I suppose I just wonder how well it will play with PT on the same G4.


Brian T
Old 28th July 2002
  #7
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
here are the stats: [for MAS]

Performance Examples 1gHz G4
(CPU bar readings in Performance window) CPU: Dual 1 gHz G4 (Only 1
processor was used)
Audio Hardware: MOTU 828, samplerate 48 kHz, hardware buffersize of
1024 samples

Altiverb: Mono to stereo, no latency mode
room 110 (1.6 sec) 15 %
Concertgebouw rear omni (5.4 sec) 23 %
Cathedral Chartres 19m omni (12.7 sec) 36 %
Altiverb: Mono to stereo, high latency mode
room 110 (1.6 sec) 7 %
Concertgebouw rear omni (5.4 sec) 13 %
Cathedral Chartres 19m omni (12.7 sec) 23 %



Performance Examples 400 mHz G4
(CPU bar readings in Performance window) CPU: 400 mHz G4 (cube)
Audio Hardware: MOTU 828, samplerate 48 kHz, hardware buffersize of
1024 samples

Altiverb: Mono to stereo, no latency mode
room 110 (1.6 sec) 30 %
Concertgebouw rear omni (5.4 sec) 49 %
Cathedral Chartres 19m omni (12.7 sec) 67 %
Altiverb: Mono to stereo, high latency mode
room 110 (1.6 sec) 15 %
Concertgebouw rear omni (5.4 sec) 25 %
Cathedral Chartres 19m omni (12.7 sec) 39 %



its a "hog" compared to other plugins... but a full on PTHD system will have no problem running this along with dedicated DSP AT ALL. especially on a 933mhz [too bad PT doesnt support dual processors.

i can do a full bore mix on mine in no latency at the highest buffer settings in DP [gotta make compromises] and ****loads of heavy plugs and hit 75%/50% on the two processors running the 12s sample. thats on a dualGHZ.

you GOT to be excited. it sounds INCREDIBLE. better than ANY verb in a box out there. and the sony unit can only do 6 seconds, the yamama 10s but altiverb can do 23s i believe.
Old 28th July 2002
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hey, if it sounds that killer, a used G4 just dedicated to Altiverb would not be a bad deal, I suppose.

I'll have to snag a listen.

Brian T
Old 28th July 2002
  #9
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
better is also a subjective term. this thing adds space, you can run extremely long rt60's without buildup like traditional algorithmic verbs. its not going to give you that "effect" sound however. the space it creates is quite realistic [or at least IMO, as realistic as an artificial reverb is capable of in this day in age]... i cant wait to hear it in quad.

of course you can sample "effects" as well and convolute those. im actually wanting to sample a 2" and see what happens to the audio run through it. anyone with a 2" want to hook me up? i have a sine wave sweep and an impulse response, the sine wave sweep is better fidelity. also, if anyone has any REAL plates, i would love to get a sample of those as well. [of course i would give it to audioease for their DL page... or anyone else who wants it available on my own server] this winter i am going to sample my cove [the leaves are too noisy right now i dont think the IR would come out right... and find the lowest noise floor, a good snow would be the **** to kill the noise]

there are people running it on a dedicated machine... but it really doesnt kill the cpu that bad especially running TDM where the computer really isnt being weighed down like native systems.
Old 30th July 2002
  #10
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
GIMMIE!!! GIMMIE!!! GIMMIE!!! GIMMIE!!! GIMMIE!!! GIMMIE!!! GIMMIE!!! GIMMIE!!!
Old 30th July 2002
  #11
Lives for gear
 
joris de man's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I emailed Audio Ease to see what the deal was on the release date, and they told me that it would be finished AT THE END OF THIS WEEK!!!
They told me to watch their website this week, since it will be updated.
This means that an RTAS/VST version will be released this week, or early next week at the latest...very exciting. I've got my creditcard ready

Although maybe not that useful for popmusic, it's excellent for orchestral music/orchestral mockup's, which is what I'm involved in.

I'll give you guys an update once I've got it!!!

Cheers,

Joris
Old 1st August 2002
  #12
Gear Nut
 
wmcintyre's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
a full on PTHD system will have no problem running this along with dedicated DSP AT ALL.
You must be kidding!

The HTDM version is still host based and only runs
on my G4 400 in low latency mode at 96kHz.
Nobody seems to be developing new HDtdm plug-ins only RTAS and HTDM.
The whole idea of tdm for me was to avoid the host based thing(power on demand etc.).
Old 1st August 2002
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
DigiDutch's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Sampling hardware

Has anybody sampled hardware yet? (480's, 960's TC6000's, etc.)

I'm not sure if I have a use for the catherdrals and stadiums, but if I can sample a 480 I'm in heaven!!!
Old 1st August 2002
  #14
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by wmcintyre


You must be kidding!

The HTDM version is still host based and only runs
on my G4 400 in low latency mode at 96kHz.
Nobody seems to be developing new HDtdm plug-ins only RTAS and HTDM.
The whole idea of tdm for me was to avoid the host based thing(power on demand etc.).
get with the program man... the ALTI in ALTIverb is for ALTIvec. it will NEVER be available on DSP chips... although i wonder if they could put it on the UAD1 card.... hmmmm.

and get a faster computer.
Old 1st August 2002
  #15
Gear Nut
 
wmcintyre's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hi alphajerk I was only reffering to what you wrote earlier
Quote:
a full on PTHD system will have no problem running this along with dedicated DSP AT ALL.
as it's host based a full PTHD system is not going to make any difference
to it's performance. Is it?.
Old 1st August 2002
  #16
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: Sampling hardware

Quote:
Originally posted by DigiDutch
Has anybody sampled hardware yet? (480's, 960's TC6000's, etc.)

I'm not sure if I have a use for the catherdrals and stadiums, but if I can sample a 480 I'm in heaven!!!
I use a 480L with the AES option dig in/out, but I guess I'll have to check the TC6000's (or the TCM5000 with the 96K option) with HD. Unless Lexicon has a 96K version of the mod for the 480L.
Old 2nd August 2002
  #17
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by wmcintyre
Hi alphajerk I was only reffering to what you wrote earlier

as it's host based a full PTHD system is not going to make any difference
to it's performance. Is it?.
what i was meaning by that statement was that since its running the CPU and not dsp chips, it a] doesnt take up any tdm chips to process and b] the tdm allow for the rest of the mix so even a good chunk of the cpu taken by altiverb doesnt affect the rest of the system [dsp chips for OTHER plugs]

does that make sense? i havent slept since wednesday morning.
Old 2nd August 2002
  #18
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
A used G-4, a $200 digi toolbox kit and the RTAS version of Altiverb would make one killer timecode automated reverb for just over a grand.

All of the on-board DAW reverb I've heard either sucks or is unusable because of too large a CPU hit. Computers are so cheap at this point that there's little point to a Swiss Army Knife approach.
Old 3rd August 2002
  #19
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
1 x Mac computer for DAW (w 2 x screens)
1 x Mac computer for Altiverb (w 1 x screen)
2 x PC computers for Gigasampler (x 1 x 'shared' screen)

what a mess!



But folks ARE doing this...

Old 3rd August 2002
  #20
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
jules, ask nika about a solution about all those screens.
Old 5th August 2002
  #21
Lives for gear
 
joris de man's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Got Altiverb!

Hey Guys!

I ordered Altiverb last week and had a little play with it.
Although the first version I had for RTAS exhibited a nasty control bug (moving one knob moved the others), a quick update that went out the same day fixed that.

What can I say? It sounds fantastic; without a doubt the best reverb I've ever worked with (and that includes a Lex 480 and a Yardstick), especially when it comes to acoustic/orchestral stuff.
I can see it being less useful for pop stuff, but if you were ever thinking about getting a Sony DRS-777 you owe it yourself to check it out.

Good stuff:
-As realistic reverb as you'll ever get
-The impulses are well recorded and give a variety of spaces; I was surprised at how useful the cathedrals were; even with a 20 sec tail still very useful and clean sounding.
My favourite is the Vredenburg set; wide sound that allows you to apply lots without getting muddy.
-Big space impulses are good for small spaces too; turn down the decay (to 5-25%) and you get a nice roomtone. Add a bit of predelay and you get an excellent reverb for drums.
-Clean interface, and you get to see nice pictures of the various spaces
-Great Sound

Bad stuff:
-Latency on RTAS is A LOT! PT can't compensate since each impulse has it's own latency (depending on impulse length).
-No low latency mode on PT with RTAS (if you find out how, please let me know!)
-No metering on the plugin; it can be difficult sometimes to judge whether it's overloading or not, esp. with long impulses.
-CPU Hog, although in all fairness, not unuseably so....
-Rack ears on the UI..come on guys..it's a PLUGIN!!!grggt


All in all, one of the best value plugin I ever bought, and one I can see myself using a lot. You'd need a good fast system to run it as a realtime verb with i/o, but as a mix plug it works great.
You'll have to manually time correct though, because time adjuster won't adjust to the kind of latency Altiverb's getting (16334 samples anyone?)


2 cents yadayada,

Joris
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