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Apple Sells 275,000 Songs in First 18 Hours
Old 4th May 2003
  #31
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by BevvyB

But if the guys running the 'biz' knew what we knew and loved, there'd be no one running the biz to moan about, and therefore, no biz....
I can assure you the folks I've met who are running our biz know and love exactly the same things we do.

Everybody has experienced a pet project they thought was wonderful, that got all of the promotion you could hope for and yet "couldn't draw flies." They've also seen some piece of sh!t they were blackmailed into releasing jump up the charts with no promotion at all. The executives who survive are those who understand that whatever it is we are selling, it probably isn't just music.

Notice I said "our biz." You and I ARE the music business. Some artists have big audiences while others have small or non-existent ones but it is still the very same business and we are all in the same community. There are people who I am proud to share our business with and others, aka "the scumbags" who I find mighty distasteful. That's just part of life in the real world!
Old 4th May 2003
  #32
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Takes all sorts

thank god
Old 4th May 2003
  #33
Gear Maniac
 
fishtop_records's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
275k sales is not enough

It will be interesting to watch the staying power of
their offering. The first day sales are meaningless.
There are lots of macs out there, and
getting a lot of press causes a lot of people
to try it in the first week or two.

The interesting numbers probably won't be published:
1) what are the daily sales numbers?
2) how many sales are made to the same user
a week or a month after they first try it?

Just as retail stores focus on "sales, same period
of stores open at least a year" the internet business
model has to resell more goods to the same
buyers. It is too hard to get new buyers
into your store/webfront. You have to sell
and resell to the ones you get.

So lets look for "sales to individuals who bought last month"
as a metric, before we get excited or worry about
whether their technology, DRM, and encoding are
useful. If no one buys, the details of the
compression and bitrate are of no interest except
to historians.
Old 4th May 2003
  #34
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
While this is an interesting way to distribute music, it still misses the point of value to the customer. The industry was found liable for price fixing in the sale of CD's, so everyone got there twenty bucks in a class action settlement.

But at .99 per song this still brings the price in at $12-15 per disc, without the artwork, lyrics, credits and notes.
I believe if CD's sold for 7.99-9.99 (3 for $25.00) this would be a great help to the industry.
So if the price fix was in, and they got caught, why do CD's still sell for yhe same price? I would much rather have all the info with the music, than just a copy of he tune.
And what about the demographics of the consumer? how mant 12-18 year old kids have credit cards? cash yes, but C.C.'s?
First there were used record store's, then there were used CD store, ...
Now who's going to open the first used MP3 store?
Old 4th May 2003
  #35
Lives for gear
 
Alécio Costa's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I won´t buy anything from them. If is it $3/song is too expensive. Like the other friend mentioned, no artwork, pics and so.

Here in Brazail there are some stores that let you rent Cds so you can do wherever you want, except scratch it or throw to the waste basket (lol) in 24 hours.

I do not think this is legal but there was a time these stores where everywhere.
Old 4th May 2003
  #36
Lives for gear
 
malice's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Alécio Costa
I won´t buy anything from them. If is it $3/song is too expensive. Like the other friend mentioned, no artwork, pics and so.

3$ /song, you gotta be kidding me

No somebody explain how THIS is going to save the Music industry !


malice
Old 4th May 2003
  #37
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
It's actually 99 cents a song.
Old 4th May 2003
  #38
Lives for gear
 
Alécio Costa's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
oh sorry. 99 cents are equal to R$3 ( reais - brazilian currency). I still think it is expensive. have you guys evaluated the quality of this format? a mid term between aiff/wave and mp3´s?
Old 4th May 2003
  #39
Lives for gear
 
malice's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Klaseed
It's actually 99 cents a song.
Still it is too much ...

That would make the full album the same price of a CD ...

Should be half the price don't you think ?

malice
Old 4th May 2003
  #40
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Yeah, I won't be paying $.99 for a song anytime soon. But then, I pretty much oppose any schemes that involve DRM, just on pricniple.

Half the price does seem more reasonable. It also seems to me that there should be a 'volume discount' when purchasing an entire album...

From a marketing standpoint, it's a pretty good idea, though. I imagine this will appeal to that huge majority of people who never listen beyond the current top hits. They will be able to buy said hits without all those other pesky songs that come on an album
Old 5th May 2003
  #41
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by makoto

But at .99 per song this still brings the price in at $12-15 per disc, without the artwork, lyrics, credits and notes.
I believe if CD's sold for 7.99-9.99 (3 for $25.00) this would be a great help to the industry.
I'm pretty sure i heard that albums ARE going for 9.99 on the apple thing. I havent been able to use it so cant confirm.

0.99 is definately cheaper than a cd single, and the packaging and art on singles is usually crap anyway so its an ok price. After all, you do get full quality (AAC) 30 second samples of every track before you buy it.

It would be nice if you could order the actual CD with original artwork and packaging for a reduced price, after you've bought the album from apple.

So you pay 9.99 for the net album and if it turns out that it's an album that you really enjoy you could pay another $4.99 including p&p and get the cd.
I know i wouldn't mind paying $15 for a record that i loved.

That way, you get cheaper albums @ 9.99, you can still burn them and play them in your car or whatever, and only pay full price @ 14.99 for the ones that are good and with it you get the booklet, full quality cd sound.

I wonder how many songs out the 275,000 are recent releases compared to past classics.....
Old 5th May 2003
  #42
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
But at .99 per song this still brings the price in at $12-15 per disc, without the artwork, lyrics, credits and notes.
I believe if CD's sold for 7.99-9.99 (3 for $25.00) this would be a great help to the industry.
Have you guys even looked at the site?
Yes - itst 99cents a song
No - that does not mean a album with 15 songs is $15. Album pricing is set independently. Most albums are set around $10. Some are $9 - some long double albums are $20 (and have like 33 songs). You do get some album artwork too.
Old 5th May 2003
  #43
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Apple announced today that they've sold 1 Milllion songs in the first week of the iTunes music store's launch:

According to the press release, over half of the songs were purchased as albums, and of the 200,000 songs available, half of those were purchased at least once. Apple also reports that they have received orders for over 110,000 of their new iPods.

New music is expected to be added on May 6th:




Apple also announced that tomorrow, May 6, the iTunes Music Store will be adding over 3,200 new tracks, including major new album releases such as Jack Johnson's 'On and On,' Andrea Bocelli's 'Tosca' and Fleetwood Mac's 'Say You Will,' as well as pre-release tracks from upcoming albums by artists David Sanborn, The RH Factor, John Scofield, Jesse Harris and Lizz Wright. Also to be added tomorrow are additional albums from the Eagles, Michelle Branch's album 'The Spirit Room,' and new Featured Artist pages for Coldplay, including an exclusive track and music video, and Alanis Morissette, with her catalog of music.
Old 5th May 2003
  #44
Gear Addict
 
audiogeek1's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Klaseed
Yeah, I won't be paying $.99 for a song anytime soon.

From a marketing standpoint, it's a pretty good idea, though. I imagine this will appeal to that huge majority of people who never listen beyond the current top hits. They will be able to buy said hits without all those other pesky songs that come on an album
I agree with you with one exception. I do not know how many of the 1800 CDs I own that I can actually enjoy the whole thing. Most of the time I enjoy 2-3 songs and 4 more I can tollerate the rest are just filler crap to me. So when I can download 1 song (uncompressed) I will be happy and I would gladly pay .99 for it. (isnt that what you essentially pay per song at a concert? I know the vibe etc can be worth the money)

Also if they had timed downloads to try out the other songs so you know which version to try would be great.

And then talk about the costs of imports. I think it will be great when I can download these and not have to pay big bucks just because it was not released in america.

Just my opinion

Mike
Old 5th May 2003
  #45
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by audiogeek1
I agree with you with one exception. I do not know how many of the 1800 CDs I own that I can actually enjoy the whole thing. Most of the time I enjoy 2-3 songs and 4 more I can tollerate the rest are just filler crap to me. So when I can download 1 song (uncompressed) I will be happy and I would gladly pay .99 for it. (isnt that what you essentially pay per song at a concert? I know the vibe etc can be worth the money)
Maybe this could in some way contribute to the downfall of crap album filler material because no-one will buy the full album anymore if they can easily try out all the songs and only buy the 2 good tunes that are on it for $1.98.
The labels need to sell albums because there's no money in just singles anymore apparently. How are they going to do it? I suppose there's no manufacturing cost anymore so that may make the single more profitable even at 0.99
Old 6th May 2003
  #46
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
you can also SHARE YOUR SONGS with other people AS STREAMS only if you would just look at the SHARING panel in the preferences panel of itunes4 and then check out this page;

http://www.itunesdb.com/index.jsp



Once connected, you will see a blue library icon and the name of the share you are connected to appear in the playlist/library column of iTunes. You can now browse the library and playlists like you would your own library. To play a song, simply double-click on it's name in the list as you normally would do. Music purchased via the iTunes Music Store will prompt you to enter the password for the Apple ID corresponding to that purchase in order to play the file. This will link that particular copy of iTunes as one of the three Macs for music downloaded via that ID. Files that did not originate from the iTunes Music Store will not prompt for a password.
Old 6th June 2003
  #48
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
The details were pulled !
Old 6th June 2003
  #49
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
f***! f***! s***!

I KNEW I should have just copied them over here!!!!!

from what I remember, off the top of my head, forgive spelling, typing fast to try and remember....!!! :

Jobs headed the 2.5 hour meeting between Apple and hundreds of indies.

The deal with the indies is indentical as the majors - no prefferential treatment, you sort out the publishing and artists royalties yourselves, you have to sell songs at 99cents, no album allowed to be more than the same amount that the single songs would be, if you want to sell an album the single songs must be available for individual download, you are responsible for the upload of the files and the coding of the files.

Apple host your songs for free.

The apple editorial team pick their favourite stuff. No payola. No backhanders. Also no preferential banner ads to anyone. Take it or leave it.

Apparently Jobs also urged people to try and sell their albums for less than $9.99

Downloads are levelling out at around 500k a week. Of those, 70% were album downloads. 1 in 10 songs listened to were downloaded.

ONLY REGISTERED COMPANIES can use the iTunes music service. That is, they are APPLE MUSIC STORE AFFILIATES. An individual can not be an affiliate (although it seems that small companies may pop up to fill in the gap ie "We will put the stuff up on iMusic Store for you and take a small cut per download BEFORE apple")

Also, DIG THIS - APPLE ARE GOING TO ACCOUNT EVERY SINGLE MONTH!!!! Your cheque's in the post every 25th I guess...

Apple is a reseller. They take their cut only if things are bought.

Apple will choose what they think is 'good ' and what they think is 'bad'. There will not be millions of categories, just the ones they have. You will not be able to search by label. iTunes Music Store is and never will be a web page - it is and always be only available throught the iTunes software.

Although there are 'pages' for high profle artists, these are reserved only for people with huge mass appeal who are already incredibly famous.

There will be no linking 'out' from the software or 'into' it

Individual bands can choose to opt out.

I would imagine that this is all designed so that Apple can remain firmly as a facilitator and let the labels do what they're meant to be good at - promoting and developing artists.

There are other rumors that Apple are in discussions with Amazon about a joint deal of some form or another.

ermmm....can't remember any more.

Bev
Old 6th June 2003
  #50
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
How about the BIG question. How much do you have to pay Apple?
Old 7th June 2003
  #51
Lives for gear
 
jazzius's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Wanna hear something funny?.....yesterday, i was talking to the Dutch marketing directer of one of the BIG international labels and he hadn't even heard about the itunes thing..........incredible!
Old 7th June 2003
  #52
Lives for gear
 
littledog's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm a little late getting on this thread, and I slkimmed all the back posts pretty quickly, so hopefully I'm not repeating what someone else has already said...

Regarding the issue of buying single songs in a compressed (and theoretically inferior) format:

This argument fails to examine the needs of the particular end-user. If you are an audiofile with an expensive hi-fi stereo system, or if you were a DJ who worked with state of the art club systems, then it would make sense to worry about compressed vs. 16/44.1 audio.

But a lot of the end-users for this product are going to be listening on walkmen, boom boxes, cheap car stereos (in noisy cars), crappy home systems or computer speakers, etc. In some of those listening environments i think one would be very hard pressed to tell the difference. Or take a typical musician (like me) who needs a reference track for learning a song, getting lyrics, or writing out an arrangement (horn parts, etc.). Do you really think, in that situation, that anyone really cares if it is "true" 16/44.1? Wouldn't you jump at the chance of getting the song instantly for 99 cents, rather than having to spend $15.00 for the whole CD and wait for it to be mailed (or have to drive to a store to get it?)

Seems to me there are a ton of people out there for whom this service is a god-send, and could give a crap about miniscule fidelity loss. For every person who has the ears and equipment to hear the difference, there's probably 100 who don't. Or else just don't care.
Old 7th June 2003
  #53
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
I think it's great that Apple was able to get all the record companies on board (this was one of the biggest problems with online services in the past - each company or two having its own seperate service).

And no, Apple would never start signing artists to "bypass" the record labels. They'd just buy a record company (like maybe the biggest one in the world - Universal...at least if you believe the largely substantiated rumors).

As for the quality, it's not bad. But don't forget the medium. It can be burned and auditioned on the finest systems in the world - where you'll cringe and hear the compression and maybe even some artifacts. But, realistically, most people are downloading the songs to listen to on their computer or ipod or cheap CD players. It's great for what it is. This doesn't mean that hi-fi is dead. More and more people are buying nice stereos and surround sound systems. So the higher quality stuff (DVD-A, SACD, CD) is not going the way of the 8 track. And when car stereos start incorporating 4.1, there will be even more of a market for higher quality music.

What worries me is not that people are listening to compressed music, but that this will be another impetus for the labels to push the single harder and harder until the album - that one cohesive collection of songs - is rendered "obsolete." That will be the real tragedy.
Old 7th June 2003
  #54
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
People want to buy albums - 70% of stuff downloaded is as a whole album....I think that surprised a lot of people and has in fact been an invaluable lesson in what the public perception of an album is.

Strangely, the people who make single-based pop may end up ONLY selling singles!!!! (becuase who want's all those other ****ty songs??) and the people who try and make coherent 'albums' may end up selling albums, in fact more than before.....this in turn may change the tide, just like MTV changed the tide IN FAVOUR of the single....erm, just like the 33rpm LP changed the tide from the single to the album...

Your core fan base is ALWAYS going to rush out and buy the CD...but think of all the other people who would never have bothered but for a discounted download actually bought your stuff for the first time....

Everything needs a rethink. The demographic will lead the industry. And it's suprising people who thought they knew what they were talking about.
Old 7th June 2003
  #55
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
I'm still worried... but that 70% figure is definitely reassuring. Thanks for pointing that out.

K
Old 8th June 2003
  #56
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Look at this regarding the pull down of the site I saw that stuff on:

(And also see actually the numbers are different!)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2971790.stm
Old 8th June 2003
  #57
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Getting record companies on board has never been a problem. What held things up was the fact that most recording contracts needed to be renegotiated in order to allow selling files. Now that it's been done, we're in a different ballgame. Apple probably just paid a mint in order to go first.
Old 8th June 2003
  #58
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I think Apple are in the unique position of being 'liked'.
Old 10th June 2003
  #59
Lives for gear
 
Johnny B's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
How much of the 99 cents will actually be paid to the recording artists?
Old 10th June 2003
  #60
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
I believe Apple's deal with the majors gives the label 0.65 (and Apple 0.35) per song. I expect how much of that goes to the artist depends on their contract with the label.
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