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Would you go from a DA7 to a soundcraft ghost???
Old 30th April 2003
  #1
Lives for gear
 
Unknown soldier's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Would you go from a DA7 to a soundcraft ghost???

Hence the issue. I like my DA7, but my system being all digital seems to give me a severe case of Digititus. Given the fact that my outboard stuff is good or great, maybe the ghost would give me more beef? What do you think?????
Old 30th April 2003
  #2
Riffer
 
lflier's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I think you're right!
Old 1st May 2003
  #3
Gear Addict
 
mdbeh's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I don't.

You started the "digital summing killing my sound" thread, right? I guess I already said what my impressions were; that the cheaper analog boards didn't fare well in Lynn's test.

The Trident 24 summing of the CD sounded pretty mediocre to me. And having worked on both a 24 and a Ghost, I'd definitely prefer the 24.

Really, the records that have what we think of as a "classic analog sound" simply weren't made on boards like a Ghost. That doesn't mean you can't make great records on them; I know a number of people who have and do. But if you're looking for some sort of analog magic bullet, I doubt this is it.

If you're really just looking for an analog flavor, I'd look into one of the summing boxes like the Manley, Dangerous, or Inward Connections.
Old 1st May 2003
  #4
Riffer
 
lflier's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I can't say that I agree mdbeh. I mean, I definitely agree with your general point - that not just any old analog board sounds good and most of the cheaper ones sound like crap. However I do think the Ghost is a big cut above most other boards in its price range, sonically. Certainly I think it would be a step up from a DA7, and that was the question, not whether it can compete with higher end analog boards. The Ghost certainly does help give digital tracks a bit more depth and separation.
Old 1st May 2003
  #5
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Plus, you can't underestimate the power of good outboard gear. Get a bunch of A-list stuff and even something like a Ghost will kill a small digital console if you have to stay in the console. If you can add all the analog outboard to the digital desk...well...I'd flip a coin.
Old 1st May 2003
  #6
Riffer
 
lflier's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Well, you CAN add analog outboard gear to a lot of digital desks, but whether you really want to is another story... latency is an issue, and all those extra conversions. It kind of sucks, especially (again) in low end digital boards. About the only outboard gear I feel OK about using is reverbs and delays and such - things that you would put on an aux send rather than inserting, and won't be too bothered by latency or degradation of the signal. Using outboard analog EQ's, compressors and the like with a low end digital desk.... ughh.
Old 1st May 2003
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Unknown soldier's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by lflier
Well, you CAN add analog outboard gear to a lot of digital desks, but whether you really want to is another story... latency is an issue, and all those extra conversions. It kind of sucks, especially (again) in low end digital boards. About the only outboard gear I feel OK about using is reverbs and delays and such - things that you would put on an aux send rather than inserting, and won't be too bothered by latency or degradation of the signal. Using outboard analog EQ's, compressors and the like with a low end digital desk.... ughh.
I agree with using outboard gear with the DA7. I used to insert all kinds of compressors and whatnot, and it seemed to add mud/gunk to the overall mix. I didn't like it, so I stay completely digital. Now I'm getting tired of that. Not the sound you want for rock and or roll, especially heavy guitars. Doesn't sound right. I've got a great front end, but that doesn't seem to matter too much.
Old 1st May 2003
  #8
Gear Addict
 
mdbeh's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Plus, you can't underestimate the power of good outboard gear. Get a bunch of A-list stuff and even something like a Ghost will kill a small digital console if you have to stay in the console. If you can add all the analog outboard to the digital desk...well...I'd flip a coin.
Sure. When you add to the whole system together, the results aren't going to necessarily match up with some abstract summing test. For instance...

I mentioned that I didn't think the Trident 24 on Lynn's CD sounded that great, but I have a friend who has one along with a 16 track M79 and sound good outboard, and it's a blast to work on, at least for rock.

But as far as improving digital tracks simply by running them through a Ghost or similar... that just hasn't been my experience anecdotally or from listening blind to the dawsum CD. But it's all subjective, of course, so I can easily see someone else coming to a different conclusion.
Old 2nd May 2003
  #9
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I think you have to consider the whole rather then the sum of the parts. When I went looking for a new console almost 3 years ago I had a Wackie D8B and an O2R dropped off at my studio for a week. The Yomama was cool but not quite what I was looking for. The Wackie left after 2 days. The EQ's weren't great, the compressors sucked and so did the routing. I remember I wanted to take a bass DI track out to a Sansamp or a Boogie or whatever to add some dirt and I couldn't do it. I mean, I called Wackie tech support and they said "You can't do that yet. Wait until the next version". Now what the **** good is that? How good is a mixer that won't let you mix different things together?
Old 3rd May 2003
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Saucyjack's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Interesting topic.....
I have been mostly mixing on a Yamaha AW4416,now 4 album projects later I have started acquiring some tasty outboard stuff...Distressor and Cranesong Trakker,API560 eqs and I'm hunting a 1176ish unit.I love the flavor compressors can bring to the party,especially while mixing.....

However,to accomplish this I run out of AW into comp and back in again...usually thru an Aux send(since the AW is kinda limited on DA outs and this is the easiest/most flexible to setup).Usually sounds pretty good but like Lee stated there are da-ad conversions going,weird phase things at times and some minor latency problems not to mention running Compressors thru Aux sends can sound not right at times.

So I have been toying around getting a Analog board and mixing analog and storing to a hard drive recorder but it at my price point (2-4K) the analog boards may not be much of a stepup and will almost certainly not have Automation,scene recall,etc like My AW.
So what's a poor boy to do....???(cept play in a rock and roll band)?
Old 3rd May 2003
  #11
Riffer
 
lflier's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Saucyjack,

Well, as you know I have an AW4416 myself. If I use analog outboard gear (other than reverbs) I usually use it while tracking, so that there aren't any issues with extra conversions, latency etc.

Other things that I find help: 1) try to get outboard gear that has digital I/O. Not always possible but helpful if it is possible. 2) Rather than using the inserts, just send the track out of an omni out, return it into an input channel, and don't send the original signal to the 2-mix. That helps with the latency. You did say you're using the sends but you didn't say whether you were combining it with the original signal. 3) If you DO want to blend in the original signal as well as the compressed signal, use the channel delay on the original track so you can correct for the latency and don't get the phasiness. 4) the clocks on most low end digital boards (including the AW and especially the D8B) are pretty weak, so using an external clock like the Lucid really helps tighten things up.

If you haven't tried any of the above already, you might do that before shelling out some more $$ on an analog board. I do enjoy mixing on the AW - the automation and scene memory are very cool like you say, and unless you have quite a lot more money for a decent analog board I wouldn't bother with that.

Also, do you have the Waves card?
Old 3rd May 2003
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Saucyjack's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey Lee,
It's Jim Rivers from the AW board..nice to some estrogen around Gearslutz....

My last post wasn't too clear...I'm using the Omni outs via Aux sends and usually blending back with the orginal signal to some degree(Most times the Kick,snare and Bass get run thru the Trakker and/or distressor).
Like I wrote this sounds great most of the time but does limit my flexibility...Only 4 omni outs
I will have to try the channel delay trick...I sometimes use this to perform minor corrections on Drum tracks(Usually delay the Kick and snare 2-5ms or so).
I have had the Lucid clock for just a few months and it does seem to help in small amounts.
I also have a Waves card which is great but I'm finding most of time I like the outboard comps better...easier to tweak and many flavors and good "crunchiness".
I'm real happy with the AW...working on my 4th album project at the moment but I think I'm just starting to realize some of it's limitations and unfortunately the next step up is a great big on(at least monetarily)
methinks.
Old 3rd May 2003
  #13
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I haven't heard the DA7 so I can't comment on it, other than to say if it's muddying up when you try to mix the way you'd actually like to mix, I think you're right to consider some alternatives.

About the comments on the Ghost's performance on the DAWSUM CD... I wonder if they used used a 'modded' Ghost for the test? I'd be skeptical that they did if they were trying to represent what most Ghost owners are using. There's a great mod for the Ghost although it's not going to turn it into an SSL or Neve, I think it smokes all of the analog boards in its price range and probably many that are well above it. I seriously doubt any of the digital boards costing around the same would come close... perhaps an O2R would.

Unknown S, did you see This Thread? It explains how a Ghost caneasily be revamped into a much better version of itself (the 'mod').

If you are lucky enough to track down anyone near where you are who has a modded Ghost, beg or pay them for a listen and run tracks that you've worked on through it somehow. I think it'll open your eyes.
Old 3rd May 2003
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Unknown soldier's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
so what is a variac?

What is this thing? What's exactly involved in the mod? the cost? You can get a ghost for under $2K these days, so if the mod is not too much $$$ then it seems like the thing to do....
Old 3rd May 2003
  #15
Gear Nut
 
ROBB007's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I ran into the same problem and I decided to try running some powered plug ins,the Universal audio one's into Logic audio then into a Tascam dm24. Which in my opinion is a far better board than a Yamaka o2r .The plugs like the 1176n and la2 really toughened up the the guitar' s and gave great depth to the drums and bass guitar .And as far as digital boards go Ive yet to find one with the warmth and depth of the Tascam.It may not be a Neve but Ill tell you it as astonished many a enginner with the sound for the dollar!!What kind of strips are you using coming into your recording source?Ive got an array of great mic pre's that also really help! a couple Avalons ,dbx's and even the presonus stuff is great value for the buck ,this method can really help the chain .I hope this helps your dellima
Old 4th May 2003
  #16
Gear Nut
 
stuntmixer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Howdy from Austin Tejas,

If anyone knows anything about the afore mentioned Ghost mod, please tell me more or where I can learn more. I had been thinking about this for some time and recently have read a couple of posts about it.

I love my Ghost (It ain't no Neve, API, Trident etc... but for what I payed for it...) but have always thought it was a little bit anemic. Not bad at all, mind you, just that it could use a couple more pounds on it, if you kno' what I mean. I like to push it kinda hard and would love it if it had some more girth.

One account I read seemed to imply it was as simple as getting a Variac and setting it at 130v.. Other accounts mention more mods to the PS and/or the board itself...

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Old 5th May 2003
  #17
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Saucyjack

So what's a poor boy to do....???(cept play in a rock and roll band)?
Just that. And, book time at another studio so someone else can worry about that **** while you worry about playing.

Messing with a variac can be a dangerous thing. Some gear will love the extra juice, some stuff will just freak out and be unusable if it doesn't totally fry.
Old 5th May 2003
  #18
Lives for gear
 
ajcamlet's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Can anyone compare a ghost with a midas venice?
Old 5th May 2003
  #19
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Just that. And, book time at another studio so someone else can worry about that **** while you worry about playing.

Messing with a variac can be a dangerous thing. Some gear will love the extra juice, some stuff will just freak out and be unusable if it doesn't totally fry.
The Ghost loves the extra juice... not sure where this part didn't come across. But yeah, you can be a pussy if you want.

heh
Old 5th May 2003
  #20
Gear Nut
 
stuntmixer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Well, I ain't scared,........ or proud,......... or tired,...............or especially smart, so I'm in.

My good friend Jim Wilson at Yes Mastering here in Austin has an extra variac that I am attempting to borrow. What have I got to lose.....oh yeah, the board that I work on every day.

I think I have done enough research to feel confident. Jax and several others have filled me with tales of successfully juicing up their Ghosts so I'm in.

I'll let ya'll know how it goes.

Charles
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