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D2B and Speck question
Old 19th April 2003
  #1
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Faderjockey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
D2B and Speck question

I posted this already under new products, but that thread may be dead by now. So here goes again.

If you guy's are running mono things out (like vocals) into outboard compressors then into the D2b. How can you automate faders in Pro Tools without it backing off or feeding into the compressors funny? I'm not worried much about kicks and stuff it's vocals I have to ride more. Or what about once you get the vocal right or say a snare and you don't need to automate but you do need to use aux send for verb? How can I send the outboard comp/Eq version of that vocal/snare whatever to even an outboard F/x unit? Not even talking about using a F/X plugin. Just how to get the treated version into an F/X unit. Don't you need sends on the D2b for that?

Starts to make me think about something like the Speck mixer for more inputs and busses and sends. Then next question is does that thing sound good. I know guys seem to love the D2b. Does it sound like a pretty nice mixer for the dough. I know it's not going to be transformer style sound but does it sound good.

Other question is on the D2B LT do they stuff 16 transformers in a 1 rack space unit or is it op-amp?

Thanks.
Old 19th April 2003
  #2
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Re: D2B and Speck question

Quote:
Originally posted by Faderjockey
I posted this already under new products, but that thread may be dead by now. So here goes again.

If you guy's are running mono things out (like vocals) into outboard compressors then into the D2b. How can you automate faders in Pro Tools without it backing off or feeding into the compressors funny? I'm not worried much about kicks and stuff it's vocals I have to ride more. Or what about once you get the vocal right or say a snare and you don't need to automate but you do need to use aux send for verb? How can I send the outboard comp/Eq version of that vocal/snare whatever to even an outboard F/x unit? Not even talking about using a F/X plugin. Just how to get the treated version into an F/X unit. Don't you need sends on the D2b for that?

Starts to make me think about something like the Speck mixer for more inputs and busses and sends. Then next question is does that thing sound good. I know guys seem to love the D2b. Does it sound like a pretty nice mixer for the dough. I know it's not going to be transformer style sound but does it sound good.

Other question is on the D2B LT do they stuff 16 transformers in a 1 rack space unit or is it op-amp?

Thanks.
I can't speak for the other guys since I use a SBM-2 instead of the D2B.

I normally do all of the analog processing first and then record it back to PT, take the outputs of that ,pan and sum that together.

This way works best for me.

I am also just about to purchase a small console for my production studio.

My production partners are just not hip enough in this kinda thinking. They prefer the more traditional way, everything going to the board and work from there.

I will still incorporate the SBM-2(for extra returns) or when I do freelance PT mixing gigs.

I can tell you after checking out both the D2B and the SBM-2, I liked the sound of the SBM-2 much better. Also the pans come in handy.

Its all class A as compared to the D2B which is IC's.

The D2B does sound good though, very transparent. I just felt that I can get the same sound just summing through digital(PT HD or Sony DMRX-100/Yamaha DM2000).

Again just an opinion.
Old 20th April 2003
  #3
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🎧 15 years
Thanks for the info. Anyone else have any thing to add?

I tell you the price of the SBM-2 and Pro Control and other things makes me think analog mixer instead. Then I feel like I won't be able to work as fast recalling things. I wish I had clients that locked the studio out for each project then it won't be as big of a deal.

Thanks again
Old 20th April 2003
  #4
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malice's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yeah,

I just bought a Speck, and it is amazing. The routing capabilities, the number of inputs makes this product different from all summing devices.

The sound is very transparent, lot's of headroom and the bandwith is extra large: and if you hear some noise, it is not the Speck heh

hope this help

malice
Old 20th April 2003
  #5
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Faderjockey
Thanks for the info. Anyone else have any thing to add?

I tell you the price of the SBM-2 and Pro Control and other things makes me think analog mixer instead. Then I feel like I won't be able to work as fast recalling things. I wish I had clients that locked the studio out for each project then it won't be as big of a deal.

Thanks again
Hey Faderjockey,

The whole "instant recall" thing is a function of the modern times.

I don't know how far back you go, back in the old days to get a console that recalled everything would set you back hundreds of thousands of dollars.

If this is a function that is absolutely necessary, than look at a digital console instead(or stay in PT).

Unless you want to look at a Euphonix or Harrison Series 10 and that will still set you back a pretty penny.

The console I'm about to pick up actually has this function(digital controlled analog). Its a T2-M4000 and i got it at a very good price. It only has 56ins at mixdown, but with my SBM-2 that will give me another 16 for a total of 70 inputs. I still need more...

I guess i better start looking for another SBM-2 or the Speck.heh
Old 20th April 2003
  #6
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
SBM-2 ?_URL, anyone?
Old 20th April 2003
  #7
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Jules's Avatar
OK Faderjockey,

You have figured out the weakness's of working with DAW's & 2U rack mount summing devices.

Getting a good sound on large track count mixes without a giant Neve, Amek or SSL has it's 'little trade offs'

Here's what I do:

1) Process the vocal and route a 'mult' or 'parralel" of it BACK INTO PT, to an input record' track and set up all your (automed & fully recallable) FX sends from there.

2) As for compressors, yes, the DAW is always PRE compressor... But if that bugs you, ou can do the above...

For me it's the best compromise for the money that saves me from having to book time in large studios to mix and allows me to produce very competative product in my own small, low overhead facility.
Old 20th April 2003
  #8
jho
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by nativeaudio
SBM-2 ?_URL, anyone?
ditto send a URL thrill...

I'm debating my next large purchase and can't decide if this is the way to go or if there is a slick analog desk that would be better for my PTHD studio.
Old 20th April 2003
  #9
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Faderjockey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks again guys,

Thrillfactor, I used to work all analog so I'm a bit spoiled by the modern recall. Even when I worked on our Yamaha digital board I still had a bunch of outboard and patch points to recall.

Sucks in a way that in Pro tools recall is so awesome and everything else it does rocks, But now I'm like everyone else and want it to sound like the analog days but still have the recall of today. I'll always find something that bugs me I guess. Working with clients this way is so much better though.

Jules, I was thinking about doing what you said you already do for vocal automation. I mean I guess the Speck would be great for using sends (if I didn't need to automate the sends) and drum bussing and stuff. I just want things to sound like a real console. Yet I do understand that is hard to do without buying a real console.

We have been working on getting a Pro Control setup. I've been still using my Yamaha as a volume pot. I can't wait to get rid of it. It's just a little weird to think after all these years of recording that I will not have a console in the studio that doesn't passes audio. The Sony does sound great, But I think I will enjoy having the PC and a bussing device.

Well at least when it's all said and done all the gear looks cool. (Does comments like that make me look to much like a Gear Slut?)

Thanks again guys.
Faderjockey
Old 20th April 2003
  #10
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malice's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Jules is right,

For me, I saw the alternative as this for my little studio (I'm not running a big facility) :

1- by a large expensive desk
2- by some quality preamps /eq/com and a little summing device as clean as possible.

The in between solution (midrange desk) was not satifactory to me. so there is this little problem you mentioned, but it is minor compare to the possibilities and the flexibility. The speck is really nice for that matter : 8 Fx sends, 8 bus, 8 stereo Fx return, 20 stereo (or mono) inputs, 8 stereo return for the daw: in 4 rack space, that is plenty of space to by some outboard gear, and you can mix bigger productions in bigger studio ...

well, that is how I see it. I also tried several digital desk, and I was not thrilled either ...

malice
Old 20th April 2003
  #11
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jho
ditto send a URL thrill...

I'm debating my next large purchase and can't decide if this is the way to go or if there is a slick analog desk that would be better for my PTHD studio.

Inward Connections SBM-2:

www.boutiqueaudio.com

Lynn Fuston has a summing CD out right now that has diffent programs and consoles on it(including the SSL9000J/D2B).

www.3daudioinc.com

I haven't checked it out yet, but he says its pretty interesting.
Old 20th April 2003
  #12
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Faderjockey
Thanks again guys,

Sucks in a way that in Pro tools recall is so awesome and everything else it does rocks, But now I'm like everyone else and want it to sound like the analog days but still have the recall of today. I'll always find something that bugs me I guess. Working with clients this way is so much better though.

Thanks again guys.
Faderjockey
Hey Faderjockey,

Maybe you should check out Lynn Fuston's DAW summing CD(and I don't work for Lynn either).heh

www.3daudioinc.com

He compares analog summing as well as DAW.

By looking at some of the responses, its blowing me away how people can't hear any differences.

Old 21st April 2003
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Awesome DAWSUM Sampler

Use this link instead:

http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ul...ubb=forum&f=19

Or order here:

http://sales.3daudioinc.com/store/catalog.lasso
Old 21st April 2003
  #14
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Faderjockey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thrillfactor,
I think I'm going to thanks. It's got to be easier then buying a bunch of these units and wiring them up to test.

Cd should be cool.
Old 21st April 2003
  #15
jho
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jho's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: Awesome DAWSUM Sampler

Quote:
Originally posted by Lynn Fuston
Use this link instead:

http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ul...ubb=forum&f=19

Or order here:

http://sales.3daudioinc.com/store/catalog.lasso
Lynn,

THANK YOU you rock

enuf good cannot be said 'bout ya!

thumbsup thumbsup
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