Quantcast
Am I setting it up wrong? M3000 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Am I setting it up wrong? M3000
Old 19th April 2003
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Am I setting it up wrong? M3000

So far, I've had my M3000 hooked up analog since I put an ADAT Bridge into the rack (for interfacing Samplitude with PT i/o... anyhoo...). If I didn't have Samplitude, I probably would have just bought a pair of 882's or 888's and be done with it (by going AES to my converters and the 3k).

Anybody know if all 882|20's are 24 bit digital?

I would like to connect my converters and TC M3000 to a pair of 24 bit 882's (using a Mix system). Unless I am missing something, it appears there is no way to interface my M3000 with my ADAT Bridge, because all 16 channels are used to interface optically with my converters (Mytek). I have tried the AES/EBU and SPDIF ports to no avail.

I'm getting digital signal to the M3000, but nothing coming back into PT. The 3k's converters are ok, but nothing I want to keep using if I don't have to.

Any ideas?

p.s. - I posted this on the DUC but non one's interested in answering questions about Digidesign gear there! stike
Old 19th April 2003
  #2
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
correct me if I'm wrong here but IMHO an 882/20 conected to a PT 24 bit session will transfer all 24 bit over its spdif in and outs if that's the bitrate you send on it. I don't think the 882 itself cares about the number of bits you send over it. SPDIF is perfectly capable of handling 24 bits. 20 bits only aplies for the AD conversion it does.

I presume this because an 888/16 for example can be used as a 24 bit digital aes interface. Numerous people doing that ... I used to ....
Old 19th April 2003
  #3
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Re: Am I setting it up wrong? M3000

Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
So far, I've had my M3000 hooked up analog since I put an ADAT Bridge into the rack (for interfacing Samplitude with PT i/o... anyhoo...). If I didn't have Samplitude, I probably would have just bought a pair of 882's or 888's and be done with it (by going AES to my converters and the 3k).

Anybody know if all 882|20's are 24 bit digital?

I would like to connect my converters and TC M3000 to a pair of 24 bit 882's (using a Mix system). Unless I am missing something, it appears there is no way to interface my M3000 with my ADAT Bridge, because all 16 channels are used to interface optically with my converters (Mytek). I have tried the AES/EBU and SPDIF ports to no avail.

I'm getting digital signal to the M3000, but nothing coming back into PT. The 3k's converters are ok, but nothing I want to keep using if I don't have to.

Any ideas?

p.s. - I posted this on the DUC but non one's interested in answering questions about Digidesign gear there! stike
The Spdif ports on the 882 are 24 bit digital.

If you want to have the M3000 in/out digitally thorough the 882 it must be first in the chain. For eg; #1/882(M3000)-#2/882-#3/Adat bridge

You cannot have the 882 in the middle because the sync is carried in the first 2 channels.

The TC is only 2 channels at a time, not 8 in/out like an ADAT. It does have a digital through(but then it becomes useless).
Old 19th April 2003
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by C.Lambrechts
correct me if I'm wrong here but IMHO an 882/20 conected to a PT 24 bit session will transfer all 24 bit over its spdif in and outs if that's the bitrate you send on it. I don't think the 882 itself cares about the number of bits you send over it. SPDIF is perfectly capable of handling 24 bits. 20 bits only aplies for the AD conversion it does.

I presume this because an 888/16 for example can be used as a 24 bit digital aes interface. Numerous people doing that ... I used to ....
Chris, I know the 882 is 20 bit AD/DA, but I thought I'd read somewhere that the 882 can carry 24 bits over its AES ports. I don't know enough about the 882 to know if it has 8xAES at 24bit, but if it does that would be what I'm after. Mainly because they sell used for a bit less than an 888|16.

However, if there is any way to connect the M3000 to the ADAT Bridge given my setup, I'd be happier to avoid any changes altogether.

Maybe a search at Digidesign for legacy interfaces should have been my first call.

peace brother
Old 19th April 2003
  #5
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
I don't know enough about the 882 to know if it has 8xAES at 24bit, but if it does that would be what I'm after

you mean an 888 right ?? ... 882 doesn't have 8 AES I/O, only spdif for 1/2 out.

all 888 models support 24 bits over AES that's for sure.
Old 19th April 2003
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by C.Lambrechts
you mean an 888 right ?? ... 882 doesn't have 8 AES I/O, only spdif for 1/2 out.
Um... I meant I didn't know if the 882 has any AES or not, but no, I didn't mean an 888. I know those have 24 bit AES. Somehow this has become a confusing discussion but I'm clear on it now.

Another issue: supposing I do get a pair of 888|16's, how should I clock them? IIRC, they have that stupid SuperClock, but not true wc i/o. I'm using Mytek's and the clock is fantastic, so I'd like to use it as the masterclock. I don't want to buy a Nanosync or something when the clock I already have is quite satisfactory, unless the Nanosync can simply pass the Mytek's clock through. Can it?

So what do I do for clock, hook up the Mytek to the 888 via AES? I'd rather not because w/c is the most stable interface to derive masterclock from. AES for w/c is less than desirable if audio as well as clock are passing through the wire. I'm not sure how to derive AES black in this situation since all AES outs from the Mytek will be carrying audio to the AES ins of the 888.

And I'll have to consider how the M3000 will receive clock as well...

I haven't had to go down this road before except with slaving the ADAT Bridge to my Mytek's clock.

Are there any important details I'm misunderstanding? Hopefully I haven't lost anyone.

Thanks!
Old 19th April 2003
  #7
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
Um... I meant I didn't know if the 882 has any AES or not, but no, I didn't mean an 888. I know those have 24 bit AES. Somehow this has become a confusing discussion but I'm clear on it now.

Another issue: supposing I do get a pair of 888|16's, how should I clock them? IIRC, they have that stupid SuperClock, but not true wc i/o. I'm using Mytek's and the clock is fantastic, so I'd like to use it as the masterclock. I don't want to buy a Nanosync or something when the clock I already have is quite satisfactory, unless the Nanosync can simply pass the Mytek's clock through. Can it?

So what do I do for clock, hook up the Mytek to the 888 via AES? I'd rather not because w/c is the most stable interface to derive masterclock from. AES for w/c is less than desirable if audio as well as clock are passing through the wire. I'm not sure how to derive AES black in this situation since all AES outs from the Mytek will be carrying audio to the AES ins of the 888.

And I'll have to consider how the M3000 will receive clock as well...

I haven't had to go down this road before except with slaving the ADAT Bridge to my Mytek's clock.

Are there any important details I'm misunderstanding? Hopefully I haven't lost anyone.

Thanks!
Looks like you will need something like a Aardvarc for clocking. It has both standard wordclock,as well as superclock and AES blackburst.

The clock from the mytek and the superclock are different.

You can try clocking the 888/16 or 888/24 from Mytek AES, but your problem will be that only the first 2 channels are clocked, not all eight(one of the drawbacks from these boxes).
Old 19th April 2003
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Looks like you will need something like a Aardvarc for clocking. It has both standard wordclock,as well as superclock and AES blackburst.

The clock from the mytek and the superclock are different.

You can try clocking the 888/16 or 888/24 from Mytek AES, but your problem will be that only the first 2 channels are clocked, not all eight(one of the drawbacks from these boxes).
Thrill, thanks for the quick reply (trying to get this up and running ASAP). I know that superclock and w/c are not the same, but does the Aardvarc convert w/c to Superclock, and if so, is that output just as stable as the original clock from the Mytek?? Confusin'. As I said, I don't want to use another device's clock unless after listening, the Aardclock beats out the Mytek (which I seriously doubt).
Old 19th April 2003
  #9
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
Thrill, thanks for the quick reply (trying to get this up and running ASAP). I know that superclock and w/c are not the same, but does the Aardvarc convert w/c to Superclock, and if so, is that output just as stable as the original clock from the Mytek?? Confusin'. As I said, I don't want to use another device's clock unless after listening, the Aardclock beats out the Mytek (which I seriously doubt).
Hey Jax,

What's cool about the Aardvarc, is that it can do all at the same time.

I've never compared them, but in other comparisons it always improved the sound.

You can use it as the master clock for the whole studio.
Old 20th April 2003
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hey Jax,

What's cool about the Aardvarc, is that it can do all at the same time.

I've never compared them, but in other comparisons it always improved the sound.

You can use it as the master clock for the whole studio.
Here's how I'm picturing it, then (as a note to self, mostly, but any corrections are welcome):


- Mytek 8X96 AD#1 feeding w/c to the Aard

- Aard feeding w/c to Mytek AD#2
and feeding superclock to 888/16#1
and feeding (?)clock to the M3000

- 888#1 feeding superclock to 888#2

(note: this is assuming the 888/16's have superclock in and out)

Now I'm a little confused about the Mytek DA, which are in separate boxes to the AD. They only have w/c out on a bnc, and aes i/o. Can the DA receive aes black from the Aard's aes out? That would be perfect if possible. Then Mytek DA#1 could feed aes clock to DA#2, meanwhile, the first AD is the masterclock of the whole system! Eureka!!

The only other thing I'm still not sure about is whether or not converting w/c to superclock degardes the stablity of the original w/c signal. Might have to hit the mastering board for that one.
Old 20th April 2003
  #11
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
Here's how I'm picturing it, then (as a note to self, mostly, but any corrections are welcome):


- Mytek 8X96 AD#1 feeding w/c to the Aard

- Aard feeding w/c to Mytek AD#2
and feeding superclock to 888/16#1
and feeding (?)clock to the M3000

- 888#1 feeding superclock to 888#2

(note: this is assuming the 888/16's have superclock in and out)

Now I'm a little confused about the Mytek DA, which are in separate boxes to the AD. They only have w/c out on a bnc, and aes i/o. Can the DA receive aes black from the Aard's aes out? That would be perfect if possible. Then Mytek DA#1 could feed aes clock to DA#2, meanwhile, the first AD is the masterclock of the whole system! Eureka!!

The only other thing I'm still not sure about is whether or not converting w/c to superclock degardes the stablity of the original w/c signal. Might have to hit the mastering board for that one.
Hey Jax,

I think your life would be much easier if you had the Aardvarc as your master. Just let the Aardvarc do everything, w/c,superclock,and AES(all at the same time).

That is part of the reason its so expensive!!!

The 888/16 receives superclock and when its clocked to the Aardvarc it becomes a different sounding machine.

The only way to clock the M3000 is by AES or SPDIF(probably from the 888/16).

Yes the D/A can receive external clock(all of them should actually).
Old 20th April 2003
  #12
Lives for gear
 
DigitMus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor


The only way to clock the M3000 is by AES or SPDIF(probably from the 888/16).

That's strange, mine has a word clock input on it...


Scott
Old 20th April 2003
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hey Jax,

I think your life would be much easier if you had the Aardvarc as your master. Just let the Aardvarc do everything, w/c,superclock,and AES(all at the same time).

That is part of the reason its so expensive!!!

The 888/16 receives superclock and when its clocked to the Aardvarc it becomes a different sounding machine.

The only way to clock the M3000 is by AES or SPDIF(probably from the 888/16).

Yes the D/A can receive external clock(all of them should actually).
I'm no specs monkey dfegad , but I noticed on the Aard-site (or was it Rosensdahl) that their listed jitter measurement is 73 picoseconds. Even though I think picosends are infinitesimal compared to ms, the Mytek's listed jitter spec is less than 10 ps. Whatever tho, either way I'm gonna try the Aard as master and even if I have to get things convoluted like in my post above, I'm gonna try the Mytek as master as well. The one that sounds the best wins. If my attempts to rig it the way I'm planning fail, the Aard will win outright. stike
Old 20th April 2003
  #14
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by DigitMus
That's strange, mine has a word clock input on it...


Scott
You are right.

I was thinking about the G-Force when I typed this.heh

I sold my M3000 years ago.
Old 20th April 2003
  #15
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax
I'm no specs monkey dfegad , but I noticed on the Aard-site (or was it Rosensdahl) that their listed jitter measurement is 73 picoseconds. Even though I think picosends are infinitesimal compared to ms, the Mytek's listed jitter spec is less than 10 ps. Whatever tho, either way I'm gonna try the Aard as master and even if I have to get things convoluted like in my post above, I'm gonna try the Mytek as master as well. The one that sounds the best wins. If my attempts to rig it the way I'm planning fail, the Aard will win outright. stike

Jax,

Jitter is a tricky thing.

Some forms of jitter are more musical than others.

I always liked the sound of the Aardvarc compared to the Nanosync.

I think Apogee has a new clock which is getting a lot of press. You may want to check that also.
Old 21st April 2003
  #16
Lives for gear
 
littledog's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
No one is even mentioning the Lucid Genx6-96. Seems at one time it was considered da bomb for bang-for-the-buck clocking. Has it fallen out of favor because there is newer better stuff, or did it just get superceded as flavor-of -the-month?

It has six outputs which can be individually toggled between word clock and superclock.
Old 22nd April 2003
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
6 superclock outs. Nice! I'll compare the Lucid to Big Ben and probably the Aard II within a couple of months.
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 1144 views: 231891
Avatar for Karloff70
Karloff70 10th September 2017
replies: 46 views: 18977
Avatar for Voyage.One
Voyage.One 28th July 2010
replies: 51 views: 13562
Avatar for GBP
GBP 1st September 2019
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump