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your definition of a "lockout" or "day rate" please...
Old 17th April 2003
  #1
Lives for gear
 
cajonezzz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
your definition of a "lockout" or "day rate" please...

What's your definition of a "lock out".

Is it 24 hour access to your facility?

What comprises a "day rate" 8 hours,10, 12?

Set up and breakdown included on either side?

different rates for transfers, backups, copies?

For those of you that have a house piano, do you tack on rental charges? Pass tuning charges on to the client?
Old 17th April 2003
  #2
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
In a large facility, with 24 hour staff support, I guess it could mean exactly that: 24 hours! 1st engineers are mostly freelance and negotiate their own deals, the studio just has to provide resource support (e.g. assistants & runners).

However....

Us smaller guys who run their own show do need some time off to sleep!
So my intended definition of 'lockout' is 10 hours but the room is secured & everything left as is for the next day. More than 10 hours incurs overtime. This is to prevent 'overlapping' sessions, where the drums & bass spend all day on their tracks & the guitarist walks in at the end to do his stuff until 4 in the morning! This happened a couple of times to me when I was a house engineer (actually, the only engineer, no assistants either) & the boss used to handle the diary regardless of how I felt in these situations.
Otherwise, I do a standard 8 hour day & I can re-use the room in the evening for a mix session or acoustic group or even mastering if I'm up to it, or if someone else wants to do something of their own so I can get on with the paperwork!
Old 17th April 2003
  #3
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Jules lock out rules-

Arrive at Noon, no earlier.

Leave at 11pm

Hour breaks for food (in total average)

Lunch 2pm, dinner 8pm

Any additional hours are extra hourly charge.

Work past 11pm and you have to pay engineers Taxi fare home.

I discourage early and IMO greedy 'sneak ins'.

A regular issue is that I have been working Noon-midnight for over 2 decades now. Often clients with day jobs are freaked out by the late start. I used to work at a studio with staff that got in early, they were always pissed off with me because my clients would turn up one or two hours early and be bothering them, despite being told the official start time.

Folks with no appetite that are only interested in forcing your nose to the grind stone are another pet hate! Not eating and looking at thier watch during your dinner break... tutt

I am old and set in my ways!


Thats lock out Jules style, but I often work later, 2am 5am especially when mixing alone.

Back when I was a jobbing freelancer "Lock out" meant 12 or 14 hours. 24 hour lock out was NEVR assumed, but was negotiated with ADVANCED notice at times. I used to HATE those as an assitant.
Old 17th April 2003
  #4
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Re: your definition of a "lockout" or "day rate" please...

Quote:
Originally posted by cajonezzz
For those of you that have a house piano, do you tack on rental charges? Pass tuning charges on to the client?
In studios that I freelance at the have pianos, no on rental charges, but a big YES!! on tuning.
Old 17th April 2003
  #5
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
Re: Re: your definition of a "lockout" or "day rate" please...

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
In studios that I freelance at the have pianos, no on rental charges, but a big YES!! on tuning.
However, that's negotiable. If someone wants to do a three hour session, charge him for the rental. If, on the other hand, he's booked a week and only needs the piano tuned once or twice, those charges may be a small enough fraction of your total from the session that you can absorb the tuning costs as a measure of goodwill.

I've seen it both ways.
Old 17th April 2003
  #6
Gear Nut
 
stuntmixer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
In general, when someone has comitted to a larger chunk of time, I find that I loosen up on the details. Things like tunings or an extra hour here or there, become a non-issue for me when I'm in the middle of a 10 of 15 day project. It is partially an economy of scale thing and partially the fact that the deeper I get involved in a project the more personal interest I take in it.

This attitude has definitely won me repeat clients.

When someone comes in for a half day or a day however, everything becomes an extra charge. "You want a rough mix to take home........." I try to budget the time so that most if not all of the secretarial/back up work is done in the ten hour day.

I find the MOST important thing in all of this is successful communication to the client of what can and will be done in the time they pay for. Most folks who have done this before get it.....

Uh oh, my lock out rules and hours look mighty similar to Jules'.

Charles
Old 17th April 2003
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
RaGe's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
So does the clock start ticking once the client arrive for setup or when you hit REC for the first take?
Also wondering about the piano rental rate ... My C7 is on its way!

(Hey Craig funny I was about to post those same questions you have. Please update us on the studio!)
Old 17th April 2003
  #8
Lives for gear
 
cajonezzz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by RaGe
So does the clock start ticking once the client arrive for setup or when you hit REC for the first take?
Also wondering about the piano rental rate ... My C7 is on its way!

(Hey Craig funny I was about to post those same questions you have. Please update us on the studio!)
For me, and sessions I book or arrange, the clock starts when it was schedualed to start. Period. If they're in an accident, family emergency that is somewhat verifiable (or sick suddenly...) of course I'll be flexible. But those clients that are just irresponsible will pay for the privilage of being so.

congrats on the piano! (we've got the same..)

I did update the studio thread although the pics look pretty similar, the big work you can't really see.....the patch bay,new outboard, a/d's,comp, drives and more. we've yet to wire up the "b " room. Big day today for us , we actually are doing a session! I laugh when I look around and think of Dave Martin talkind about recording in a "construction zone" we're 70% of the way there on the finish work but we couldn't wait any longer. If we didn't fullfill some obligations with returning clients we'd risk losing them. (we're one month behind projected to just be able to "make noise" . I feel pretty good about that, all things considered.
Old 17th April 2003
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
RaGe's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Good to hear from you!
Old 17th April 2003
  #10
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Lockout means nobody else will be using the room so you can leave your setup. Day rates are a flat fee paid in advance for between eight and ten hours.

Most studios charge an overtime rate that is higher than their regular hourly no matter if somebody is paying hourly, getting a discount or paying a day rate. This is because the employees have to be paid overtime, will probably have to have a meal brought in and won't be able to use public transportation in order to get home at a late hour. Providing that level of service costs every studio extra and clients should expect to pay extra for it.
Old 18th April 2003
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
In my room yhe day rate is for ten hours. If clients commit to a day rate, they are paying five dollars less per hour from my regular hourly. I work mostly nights, as most of my clients have day jobs or are in school.
Old 18th April 2003
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
Stizz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You need to make sure that your clients are aware of your "Lockout" definition - several years ago we had a nightmare session for an R&B artist that had several producers - they ended up working 24 hours a day in "tag-team" shifts for 3 or 4 days. Unfortunately, they never considered the health or sanity of the engineer, who ended up sleeping for an hour or two at a time whenever he got the chance...
Old 18th April 2003
  #13
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Stizz
You need to make sure that your clients are aware of your "Lockout" definition - several years ago we had a nightmare session for an R&B artist that had several producers - they ended up working 24 hours a day in "tag-team" shifts for 3 or 4 days. Unfortunately, they never considered the health or sanity of the engineer, who ended up sleeping for an hour or two at a time whenever he got the chance...
exactly my point!
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