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API 512c in lunchbox with resistor
Old 19th July 2005 | Show parent
  #31
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not_so_new's Avatar
Okay 3 things...

1) Me likey saturation as well so I think this is interesting. So much so that I am holding in my sweaty little palm my Fed Ex package from Digi-Key right now that has my 1200 ohm resisters for my SCA A12's. I let ya know how it sounds.

2) People are always complaining that API lunchbox pres are too hot. Do a search here people talk about it all the time. Also people talk about API pres being "forward" and strong in the mids. I can't imagine that they were originally designed this way. I would think that the addition of a resister on the output would change the "too hot" problem and would help even out the tone so it was not as aggressive (maybe a good thing maybe not). API even has a place to put a resistor on the lunchbox and they recommend 600 ohms so there is something to all of this.

3) Most importantly I think it is worth trying because John Klett and Thrill know what they are talking about. It might not be what you are looking for but... well it might be very cool.

One more thing that is worth thinking about. It would be possible (or so I am told) to make a variable resistor in path with a pot so you could control the amount of resistance on each module. That would be a good idea I would think.
Old 20th July 2005 | Show parent
  #32
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🎧 15 years
So something like even an API 560 should have a 600 ohm input so even when leaving the eq flat, it should change the sound of the pre, right? I feel kinda dumb for asking. I should just go try it.
Old 20th July 2005 | Show parent
  #33
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superburtm's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
One more thing that is worth thinking about. It would be possible (or so I am told) to make a variable resistor in path with a pot so you could control the amount of resistance on each module. That would be a good idea I would think.


The problem with that is I'm told is that affects the input of the next device which is not what you really want to do. I see nothing wrong with them without a resistor.
Old 20th July 2005 | Show parent
  #34
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not_so_new's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by superburtm
The problem with that is I'm told is that affects the input of the next device which is not what you really want to do. I see nothing wrong with them without a resistor.
Yeah but if I can get them to sound even better.. ?? Way cool.

So I have been thinking about this a bit and I think I have come up with the best solution, for me anyway.

heh

All of my A12's are going to be punched down to my ADC patchbay. I am going to make up 7 patch cables with 1200 ohm resisters. I can take them in and out of the chain depending on what I am looking for. Also it would make a great way to test how this sounds......

We will see I guess.

I will try to post some "with without" clips if I can ever get my rig put back together.
Old 20th July 2005 | Show parent
  #35
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cfjis's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Yeah but if I can get them to sound even better.. ?? Way cool.

So I have been thinking about this a bit and I think I have come up with the best solution, for me anyway.

heh

All of my A12's are going to be punched down to my ADC patchbay. I am going to make up 7 patch cables with 1200 ohm resisters. I can take them in and out of the chain depending on what I am looking for. Also it would make a great way to test how this sounds......

We will see I guess.

I will try to post some "with without" clips if I can ever get my rig put back together.
Please do post some clips... I'd love to hear an A/B.
This sure is an interesting idea.

Cheers,
Charles
Old 20th July 2005 | Show parent
  #36
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brianroth's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Yeah but if I can get them to sound even better.. ?? Way cool.

So I have been thinking about this a bit and I think I have come up with the best solution, for me anyway.

heh

All of my A12's are going to be punched down to my ADC patchbay. I am going to make up 7 patch cables with 1200 ohm resisters. I can take them in and out of the chain depending on what I am looking for. Also it would make a great way to test how this sounds......

We will see I guess.

I will try to post some "with without" clips if I can ever get my rig put back together.
Just be sure of one thing..the termination resistors connect BETWEEN tip and ring, not in series...

Bri
Old 20th July 2005 | Show parent
  #37
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max cooper's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I made up a bunch of little XLR/XLR cables with different value resistors and I'm really liking 300 ohms. I'm finding that when I miking stuff up, I listen to the source with a couple of different values in place. just another way to vary it up.

A really cool sound, too, is the 512c into a 525 comp. set to 'off' (as opposed to hardwire bypass setting) which imparts a nice 'cushyness' to the sound. Those 525's are getting a lot of use lately.
Old 20th July 2005 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Aren' there adapter type gizmos (in-line pad?) that will do basically the same thing?

Max, what's the difference between 300 and 1000?
Old 20th July 2005 | Show parent
  #39
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DrDeltaM's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youn
Max, what's the difference between 300 and 1000?
700

Sorry, couldn't resist (pun intended)
Old 20th July 2005 | Show parent
  #40
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drmmrboy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youn
Aren' there adapter type gizmos (in-line pad?) that will do basically the same thing?
I'm curious myself. What's the difference of soldering resistors, or using these guys? (besides different values) Shure a15as
From PDF...
"Impedance
Input (XLR Female): 1,000 Ω
Output (XLR Male): 150 Ω"

Also....
"NOTE: The equivalent single series simplex-powering resistance
is 215 Ω; this resistance should be considered in addition to any
existing circuit resistance when using the attenuator."


A pad is a resistive network, right? But different from impedance matching resistors? I'm pretty clueless on this stuff. Kinda curious what each is doing, and what's the best gas for performance and the life of my car.

I know a lot of folks are using these pads, as well as A-designs Atty. I tried both, like them both, went with the pads.

Andrew
Old 20th July 2005 | Show parent
  #41
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not_so_new's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianroth
Just be sure of one thing..the termination resistors connect BETWEEN tip and ring, not in series...

Bri
Ya know people keep saying this and I think that I am now unsure of what I need to do. I thought I had it right but.... you know.

To clear it up...

Let us say I have a two pair cable with a drain wire. One of the pairs is red the other is black.

On only one 1/4 inch patch plug I would put a 1200 ohm resister on the tip and then attach the red cable from my two pair to that resistor. Then I would take another 1200 ohm resistor and attach it to the ring of the longframe 1/4 and attache the black cable to that resistor. Then I would connect my drain wire to the sleeve directly.

I would only attach the resistors on one end of the patch cable, on the other side red to tip, black to ring and shield to sleeve.

Yes??

Quote:
I'm curious myself. What's the difference of soldering resistors, or using these guys? (besides different values) Shure a15as
From PDF...
"Impedance
Input (XLR Female): 1,000 Ω
Output (XLR Male): 150 Ω"
Also....
"NOTE: The equivalent single series simplex-powering resistance
is 215 Ω; this resistance should be considered in addition to any
existing circuit resistance when using the attenuator."
Yes this should work as well but I would like to hear someone else who knows for sure back me up on that. Anyone??
Old 20th July 2005 | Show parent
  #42
Deleted 6f6e2d3
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
On only one 1/4 inch patch plug I would put a 1200 ohm resister on the tip and then attach the red cable from my two pair to that resistor. Then I would take another 1200 ohm resistor and attach it to the ring of the longframe 1/4 and attache the black cable to that resistor. Then I would connect my drain wire to the sleeve directly.
From the way I was corrected in another thread about this, I'd say no. You only need one 1200 ohm resistor. Attach it from the tip to the ring.
Old 20th July 2005 | Show parent
  #43
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max cooper's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Youn
Aren' there adapter type gizmos (in-line pad?) that will do basically the same thing?

Max, what's the difference between 300 and 1000?
Not 'shure' what the difference between the pads and simply putting a resistor across the output is.

I personally felt like 1000 ohms was a little squishy, depending on the source and the mix. It's like cooking to me, though. Can't know until you try it.

Along with the 300 ohm, I'm using 500 ohms sometimes too.
Old 20th July 2005 | Show parent
  #44
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not_so_new's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilcofan
From the way I was corrected in another thread about this, I'd say no. You only need one 1200 ohm resistor. Attach it from the tip to the ring.

Thanks man.

Can someone else verify this?? I guess I was confused.

Just take a 1200 ohm resistor and strap it between pins one and two on an XLR or between tip and ring of a 1/4, then attach the cables just like you would normally?
Old 20th July 2005 | Show parent
  #45
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🎧 15 years
So would an atty be a coninuously variable resistance? Sorry. I slept through my electronics classes.
Old 20th July 2005 | Show parent
  #46
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drmmrboy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuntz
So would an atty be a coninuously variable resistance? Sorry. I slept through my electronics classes.
Me too...
The Atty is a passive line attenuator, correct? Different from using resistors...again, correct? Am I right in saying, one is loading them down, while the other is not???

Like Dr. Evil says... Somebody throw me a frickin bone here.......

Andrew
Old 21st July 2005 | Show parent
  #47
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brianroth's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmmrboy
Me too...
The Atty is a passive line attenuator, correct? Different from using resistors...again, correct? Am I right in saying, one is loading them down, while the other is not???

Like Dr. Evil says... Somebody throw me a frickin bone here.......

Andrew
Any attenuator is nothing more than resistors in some sort of configuration. However, the separate issue here is the load resistance applied across the output of the API's output transformer.

Bri
Old 21st July 2005 | Show parent
  #48
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insomnio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper
The impetus for doing this came from this thread:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...ight=api+klett
Hey, that's my thread!

As a 3124+ owner I wrote Thethrillfactor and he told me that doesn't apply to 312s.
thanks Thrill!

___________
Insomnio
Old 21st July 2005 | Show parent
  #49
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Bones's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Just take a 1200 ohm resistor and strap it between pins one and two on an XLR or between tip and ring of a 1/4, then attach the cables just like you would normally?
You mean pins 2 and 3 of the XLR (assuming standard 'ground-hot-cold' lineup)? tutt

ps. Don't you just hate those annoying "Look teacher, I found a spelling mistake" geeks!!!!

Cheers
Old 21st July 2005 | Show parent
  #50
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drmmrboy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianroth
Any attenuator is nothing more than resistors in some sort of configuration. However, the separate issue here is the load resistance applied across the output of the API's output transformer.
Old 21st July 2005 | Show parent
  #51
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not_so_new's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones
You mean pins 2 and 3 of the XLR (assuming standard 'ground-hot-cold' lineup)? tutt

ps. Don't you just hate those annoying "Look teacher, I found a spelling mistake" geeks!!!!

Cheers
Yeah I meant two and three.... So will someone answer the damn question already..

please

Quote:
Can someone else verify this?? I guess I was confused.

Just take a 1200 ohm resistor and strap it between pins one and two on an XLR or between tip and ring of a 1/4, then attach the cables just like you would normally?
Old 21st July 2005 | Show parent
  #52
Deleted 6f6e2d3
Guest
Quote:
So will someone answer the damn question already..

Can someone else verify this??

Just take a 1200 ohm resistor and strap it between pins one and two on an XLR or between tip and ring of a 1/4, then attach the cables just like you would normally?
Well, I can barely read schematics (I don't even know exactly what a "load" means!) but I strapped a resistor across the hot and cold pins last night and it's working here. I'm using 525's, not preamps. I used a short XLR cable.

I only had an 820 ohm and a 1.5k ohm resistor lying around so I demoed both.

I can see why 1.2k would be a nice because I found 820 to still be a little mid-peaky while 1.5k started to get on the fuzzy size and losing high-mids a bit too much. I'm going to buy a 1.2k resistor today and call it music.
Old 22nd July 2005 | Show parent
  #53
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brianroth's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yes, one end of the resistor connects to XLR pin 2, or TRS tip, and the other end of the resistor connects to XLR pin 3, or TRS ring. In that way, the balanced output signal from the module is driving into/loaded by the resistor.

Bri
Old 22nd July 2005 | Show parent
  #54
Deleted 6f6e2d3
Guest
Thanks Brian.
Old 22nd July 2005 | Show parent
  #55
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not_so_new's Avatar
Yes big thanks Brian.

thumbsup thumbsup
Old 15th August 2005 | Show parent
  #56
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Sorry to post on an old thread, but does anyone know if technically going from 512c to 560 EQ would 'load' the output as described here? I know that going through the 525 does it for some folks, that's why I bring it up...
Old 17th September 2007 | Show parent
  #57
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Bump for a good thread.
Old 18th September 2007 | Show parent
  #58
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Jason Poulin's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
can you parallel the resistor on the output of other units too?

Like the La2a?
Old 18th September 2007 | Show parent
  #59
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clusterchord's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
is there a point doing this when going from a 312-type pre direct to a A/D converter like RME or Apogee Rosetta..? (yes i'm clueless ).


im gonna have couple of 312-type pres DIYed (w different i/o xfmr etc), and it'll be very easy to incorporate, for example, an OFF/600/1200ohm switch for the outputs.. so one could have a choice when tracking..


great thread btw.
thanks.
Old 18th September 2007 | Show parent
  #60
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmmrboy ➑️
Say I'm going... mic->512c->550b.
Where would I put the resistor?
After 512, or after 550?

Andrew
Concerning this type of signal chain John Klett has said to put one resistor on the 512C output and a second resistor on the 550 output.
πŸ“ Reply

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