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Apogee Duet Reamping vs Radial
Old 10th February 2009
  #1
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🎧 10 years
Apogee Duet Reamping vs Radial

I've been viewing the forums here for quite some time but this is my first post. Great information!

Anyways I've already searched and haven't found the answer I'm looking for.

My question is, does anybody have experience with using the Apogee Duet as a reamp device?

I know that within maestro (the included software) that you can change the OUTPUT from "line" to "instrument amp" making it -10dB. Unfortunately, nowhere does it say what the output impedance of the instrument level output is. Does anyone know if it's enough to drive the amp properly?

I was wondering how well the Apogee Duet works for reamping? Does it compare to the quality of a standalone reamp box like the Radial X-amp?

Just to clarify, I know that the Duet technically works as a reamp box, I'm more concerned with how well it works, as it would save me some cash if I can upgrade my interface and get a reamp box in one shot.
Old 10th February 2009
  #2
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbelo88 ➑️
I've been viewing the forums here for quite some time but this is my first post. Great information!

Anyways I've already searched and haven't found the answer I'm looking for.

My question is, does anybody have experience with using the Apogee Duet as a reamp device?

I know that within maestro (the included software) that you can change the OUTPUT from "line" to "instrument amp" making it -10dB. Unfortunately, nowhere does it say what the output impedance of the instrument level output is. Does anyone know if it's enough to drive the amp properly?

I was wondering how well the Apogee Duet works for reamping? Does it compare to the quality of a standalone reamp box like the Radial X-amp?

Just to clarify, I know that the Duet technically works as a reamp box, I'm more concerned with how well it works, as it would save me some cash if I can upgrade my interface and get a reamp box in one shot.
The Duet is not a reamp, so it does not do the same thing. Not sure how your interpreting the word re-amp, but I assure you the Duet has no facility to buffer Line Level Voltage to Instrument Level Voltage. The Control panel allows you to change the INPUT, either instrument signal [DI] or Microphone Signal, or Line Level Signal. Its for the Inputs only, not the outputs. You need a box like the Little Labs Red-EYE passive DI/Reamp or Radial X-Amp, to do what you are asking for. However, using the Duet like this is NOT IDEAL, becasue it only has -10 Unbalanced Outputs, which have been put on there for monitoring, IE patching into your power monitors.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Are you sure about that? I've seen in several places that you can switch the OUTPUT from "line" to "instrument level" in the control panel.

It doesn't say on the website itself but in several places I've seen it confirmed.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/arc.../t-301034.html <-- search reamp within that thread.

http://mixonline.com/gear/reviews/au...ct_reviews_34/ <-- or search 'instrument level output' in that article

It says that the output can be configured for -10dBu instrument level output...

So they obviously had some to implement reamping capabilities... but how effective they are is to be seen.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbelo88 ➑️
Are you sure about that? I've seen in several places that you can switch the OUTPUT from "line" to "instrument level" in the control panel.

It doesn't say on the website itself but in several places I've seen it confirmed.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/arc.../t-301034.html <-- search reamp within that thread.

http://mixonline.com/gear/reviews/au...ct_reviews_34/ <-- or search 'instrument level output' in that article

It says that the output can be configured for -10dBu instrument level output...

So they obviously had some to implement reamping capabilities... but how effective they are is to be seen.
I'm wrong.....I can admit it! I'm a humble kind of guy......

But, I would not trust any other 3rd party Forum to figure this out. I would call Apogee Tech Support, or read the manual, which clearly explains what the unit does. It does make this mention in regard to the output setting;

Instrument Amp
– Set Level to Instrument Amp when connecting Duet’s OUT-L or OUT-R connectors to an instrument amp input.
The output level is fixed.

You can use it as such, as the signal being buffered to a fixed out, and sent from the Software. But it seems really silly to me, as you'll lose the entire functionality of sending the Stereo Signal to your monitors. It pretty much renders that part of the unit pointless for its intended purpose. There will also be more latency than you're going to want for this application.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell ➑️
I'm wrong.....I can admit it! I'm a humble kind of guy......

But, I would not trust any other 3rd party Forum to figure this out. I would call Apogee Tech Support, or read the manual, which clearly explains what the unit does. It does make this mention in regard to the output setting;

Instrument Amp
– Set Level to Instrument Amp when connecting Duet’s OUT-L or OUT-R connectors to an instrument amp input.
The output level is fixed.

You can use it as such, as the signal being buffered to a fixed out, and sent from the Software. But it seems really silly to me, as you'll lose the entire functionality of sending the Stereo Signal to your monitors. It pretty much renders that part of the unit pointless for its intended purpose. There will also be more latency than you're going to want for this application.
Thanks for your responses! You make an excellent point.

Unfortunately for me, who is on a budget, I’m goign to be dancing around with the inputs no matter what I do. Currently I’m running an old Tascam US-122 recording interface... and I want the abaility to reamp (I’m a guitar player who’s primary function is recording distorted guitar).
My options right now are:
-buy a reamp kit from radial which costs roughly $500, which would mean I have to use my only two RCA outputs for reamping anyway. I would use the splitter to send the clean DI to my Tascam to record it as I send the regular signal through my tube amp. I will then Mic the amp and record that through the second input of my Tascam. I would then take the DI, unplug one monitor from the rca output and send it to the reamp box then to my amp again as I record the signal through the (either one or two) microphone(s) a second time with different settings (A method used to thicken guitar tracks) and therefore latency isn't a huge issue for me.

-or buy a cheap DI splitter and an Apogee, where I would do the same thing but I wouldn’t use the reamp.

So yes, while I agree that it is less than ideal to use the Duet for reamping, at this point if it can serve my purposes I will be happy with the purchase (being able to upgrade my interface and gain the ability to reamp).


Otherwise, if the Duet won't do a good job reamping then I will just grab a reamp box and upgrade my interface at a later time. Which is why I'm mainly concerned with whether or not the apogee is up to snuff in terms of reamping capabilities.

Last edited by Mbelo88; 10th February 2009 at 07:59 PM.. Reason: Small error
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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🎧 10 years
Anyone with a duet??

Anyone at least know the output impedance of the duet?
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Yeah, I don't know if I'm doing it right or proper or anything but I do it all the time.

I take a guitar cable, stick it in the headphone input on the duet and run the cable to a guitar amp. Stick a mic in front of the amp, create a new track with that mic as the input, solo the track I want to "reamp" and hit record.

That's probably wrong or something but I reamp vocals, bass, drums etc. all the time, get the sound that I want out of the process and my amp still works great after doing it for like a year.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Liszt ➑️
Yeah, I don't know if I'm doing it right or proper or anything but I do it all the time.

I take a guitar cable, stick it in the headphone input on the duet and run the cable to a guitar amp. Stick a mic in front of the amp, create a new track with that mic as the input, solo the track I want to "reamp" and hit record.

That's probably wrong or something but I reamp vocals, bass, drums etc. all the time, get the sound that I want out of the process and my amp still works great after doing it for like a year.
Yea, that's wrong, but who cares, whatever works right?

I would suggest setting the L/R outputs to the Instrument amp setting and trying it that way. The HP jack is NOT meant to be used in the manor you're using it. RE: instrument reamping; I've never used the Duet like this; and I never will.
Old 12th February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
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🎧 10 years
See... I'm really looking for answers from someone who WOULD use it this way, and has some experience doing so. Most likely someone who has done a lot of reamping and could possibly compare the two.
Old 12th February 2009 | Show parent
  #10
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbelo88 ➑️
See... I'm really looking for answers from someone who WOULD use it this way, and has some experience doing so. Most likely someone who has done a lot of reamping and could possibly compare the two.
But how will you hear the source your trying to record with the Duet?

You need another DA converter and a Little Labs Red-EYE. That's what I would recommend to you. Sorry, its just that the Duet SUCKS for what your asking it to do. My 2 Cents is all.
Old 13th February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell ➑️
Yea, that's wrong, but who cares, whatever works right?

I would suggest setting the L/R outputs to the Instrument amp setting and trying it that way. The HP jack is NOT meant to be used in the manor you're using it. RE: instrument reamping; I've never used the Duet like this; and I never will.
Right. Yeah, I don't doubt that it's wrong at all. It works in a pinch though. Will try and get the right cable to route the 2-channel output to an instrument amplifier.
Old 2nd March 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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🎧 10 years
I tried to do this with my duet, but believe me it won't sound all that great. If you are looking for a nice clean tone, maybe, but the overdriven sounds from reamping the signal through the duet were not good at all. Very muddy and lifeless.

Radial re amp boxes go for between $80 (passive) up to $200 (active). I don't think you need an entire re amp kit.

I forgot to mention that I emailed Apogee about this very subject earlier today. Will let everyone know what they say.

Last edited by Insomniaclown; 2nd March 2009 at 04:15 AM.. Reason: Forgot to mention email
Old 2nd March 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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I did it and thought it was fine. The latency was not an issue at all actually. I've never reamped before, but it seemed to do a fine job. Not nearly as nice as just recording the amp tone, but I still got useable tones out of it.
Old 3rd March 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
It's very simple actually.

Set the duet output to instrument level in Maestro Control, then use the L output for mono or L/R if you're using 2 amps in stereo. Mics back into the Duet's XLR ins. Make sure software monitoring is off in your DAW and select output "To None" in the Maestro Mixer.

If you're fanatical about sound quality get a high quality passive attenuator and run that between the duet and amp, with the duet's output volume maxed.

Don't use the headphone jack, as this output is running through the duet's headphone amplifier which is the wrong signal level for an instrument amp input and will result in higher SNR and distortion.

I use a duet in my mobile rig to record impulse responses, which is practically the same as the reamping process.
Old 4th March 2009 | Show parent
  #15
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🎧 10 years
I got an email back from the apogee folks. They told me that the Duet is not meant to be used as a reamper, only a way to play back audio through an instrument amp. Anyways, I will be springing for a Radial.
Old 30th May 2010 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insomniaclown ➑️
I got an email back from the apogee folks. They told me that the Duet is not meant to be used as a reamper, only a way to play back audio through an instrument amp. Anyways, I will be springing for a Radial.
But...it either plays back audio through an instrument amp properly or it does not. If it plays the audio properly through an instrument amp and you can record properly with it then, objections about monitoring and latency aside, it should reamp properly, as well.


:Fuzz
Old 18th August 2012
  #17
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🎧 5 years
Hey sorry to revive an old thread but I love my Duet and spent ages looking for reamping advice when I first got it and this thread came up a lot so thought it might be handy to share.

First mute the masterbuss and send the track you're reamping direct to the right output, setting maestro output to either line (set to max output) or instrument level depending on whether you're sending to an FX line or amp.

IMHO Duet at instrument level sounds great as an amp reamp source but if you're concerned you can always output at line level and use a decent reamp box.

Input the reamped signal to a new track set to record and send its output to the left channel. You may want to put a limiter on this output in case of accidental feedback loops as its easy to mix up your sends/returns! Also pull the left channel output level down 10-20db as the record level is pretty hot when output direct.

Now you can send the reamp signal out of the right channel and monitor (in mono) on the left channel! If using headphones simply get a mono to stereo jack converter (Β£3 max) which will send the left channel to both sides of your phones.

I tend to reamp through a preamp/eq/comp chain to make the big moves on each track then tighten up with ITB FX. Latency isn't an issue if you're reamping all the tracks as they all line up again(but its also easy enough to zoom in and nudge if necessary). You can even send other tracks to the left channel so that you can adjust the reamped signal in context - I imagine if you started with drums and reamped in order of importance you could stack a whole song on the left channel this way and get a pretty good starting mix, in fact mono monitoring is often recommended in the initial stages of a mix.

Finally this technique is really lightweight - with just a laptop, duet and headphones you can reamp with monitoring anywhere.

Hope I expressed that clearly!! Its easy to do, honestly!
Old 18th August 2012
  #18
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Also forgot to mention-

Don't use the Duet knob to adjust monitoring level as this will also change the level of the reamp signal (if set to line level). Control monitoring on the left channel send instead.

Of course you can still use both inputs on the duet so you can have two mics on the amp, or room and amp, or (if you can split the reamp signal) mics on two amps or two different FX units at once, parallel compression etc.
Old 8th October 2017 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseasy ➑️
Hey sorry to revive an old thread but I love my Duet and spent ages looking for reamping advice when I first got it and this thread came up a lot so thought it might be handy to share.

First mute the masterbuss and send the track you're reamping direct to the right output, setting maestro output to either line (set to max output) or instrument level depending on whether you're sending to an FX line or amp.

IMHO Duet at instrument level sounds great as an amp reamp source but if you're concerned you can always output at line level and use a decent reamp box.

Input the reamped signal to a new track set to record and send its output to the left channel. You may want to put a limiter on this output in case of accidental feedback loops as its easy to mix up your sends/returns! Also pull the left channel output level down 10-20db as the record level is pretty hot when output direct.

Now you can send the reamp signal out of the right channel and monitor (in mono) on the left channel! If using headphones simply get a mono to stereo jack converter (Β£3 max) which will send the left channel to both sides of your phones.

I tend to reamp through a preamp/eq/comp chain to make the big moves on each track then tighten up with ITB FX. Latency isn't an issue if you're reamping all the tracks as they all line up again(but its also easy enough to zoom in and nudge if necessary). You can even send other tracks to the left channel so that you can adjust the reamped signal in context - I imagine if you started with drums and reamped in order of importance you could stack a whole song on the left channel this way and get a pretty good starting mix, in fact mono monitoring is often recommended in the initial stages of a mix.

Finally this technique is really lightweight - with just a laptop, duet and headphones you can reamp with monitoring anywhere.

Hope I expressed that clearly!! Its easy to do, honestly!
I know this is an old thread now, I really liked your advice up above thanks for chiming in. . .

I don't suppose anybody knows why I don't have an "Instrument" setting in my output settings? I only have the typical +4 and -10 settings.... really hope the instrument out setting hasn't been...... discontinued? in the new drivers and/or firmware updates.. I am using Apogee Duet II.
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