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Listening to cd's on my iPod and then came the Beatles...Weird!
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #61
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
heh, I was listening to a David Axelrod (the musician), and some of his songs have similar "artistic" panning. One song features all the drums on the left channel. If you turn your monitor balance all the way left, you get a completely different mix than on the right! Panned center, it sounds good though!
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #62
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Nice to know there are still some Firesign fans out there. I thought there might not be any more bozos on this bus!

Quote:
Bonus points for anyone who knows the correct response to, "Where's the fire, Danger?"
It's all a bit hazy now, but is it "In your eyes, Lt. Bradshaw".
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #63
Lives for gear
 
DCtoDaylight's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRobb ➑️
Nice to know there are still some Firesign fans out there. I thought there might not be any more bozos on this bus!

Bonus points for anyone who knows the correct response to, "Where's the fire, Danger?"

It's all a bit hazy now, but is it "In your eyes, Lt. Bradshaw".
DINGDINGDING!

Clearly a well-spent youth!
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #64
Lives for gear
 
Unclenny's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCtoDaylight ➑️
Bonus points for anyone who knows the correct response to, "Where's the fire, Danger?"
In your eyes, Lt. Bradshaw.

Hey.....don't crush that dwarf.
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #65
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Pass me the pliers..

Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #66
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules ➑️
Pass me the pliers..

DUDE!

And it's hand me the pliers.

For those who don't know, Firesign Theater made comedy albums in the format of radio plays. The writing and the creative use of the audio medium was fantastic. With most comedy albums, you listen to them a few times and have them memorized. With Firesign, that's when the fun starts. A throwaway line at the end suddenly connects to a throwaway line at the beginning and a whole new subplot reveals itself. Their stuff was very layered, and on the hundredth listening, you'll hear something new.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #67
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacock ➑️

And the panned toms with the usual high tom in the left panning to floor in the right is goofy sounding.
I'm pretty sure The Beatles have this sort of goofy panning (on Abbey Road). How should toms be panned without being goofy?
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #68
Gear Nut
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm kinda surprised this thread hasn't spawned a "panned stereo isn't true stereo" rant by now.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #69
Lives for gear
 
DeepSpace's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye ➑️
...i was in a music store a few years ago which had the stereo field spread across the whole store, and at one point the rhythm section just totally fell apart...

lik WHOOOOAa - where'd the freeking bass and snare go...???....wtf???
....and why are the vocals and guitars constantly appearing and disappearing??..

funny.
At least equally funny is some of the tracks from early Supertramp where they had two vocalists exchanging lines and they put one in the center and the other they put phase-flipped on opposite sides of the stereo field.

Sounds great in stereo, but when you play it in mono, the phase-flipped left and right of the second voice null and you can only hear the reverb of his voice, not the actual voice itself. Kinda ghostly and weird until you work out what is going on. After that it's a riot!
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #70
Lives for gear
 
cjogo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Every morn --when i stop in at the coffee shop -I have to decide which side of the establishment to sit. They play 60's music all day --today I listened to only half of the performance side of Rubber Soul --really missed the lead vocals Yesterday it was Mama & Papas with no Denny or Cass ....

So >> on the South of the cafe >> it usually fun to break down the instrumentation /harmony on the early tunes & move for that second cup on the North wing >> and hear the leads,etc.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #71
Lives for gear
 
cjogo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRobb ➑️
DUDE!

And it's hand me the pliers.

For those who don't know, Firesign Theater made comedy albums in the format of radio plays. The writing and the creative use of the audio medium was fantastic. With most comedy albums, you listen to them a few times and have them memorized. With Firesign, that's when the fun starts. A throwaway line at the end suddenly connects to a throwaway line at the beginning and a whole new subplot reveals itself. Their stuff was very layered, and on the hundredth listening, you'll hear something new.
Don't crush that dwarf :: hand me the pliers. ...Firesign was the most listened to comedy LP in my 60/70's college dazes. Sorry to say > I memorized the lines from Tirebitter to a higher degree \/ than the critical curriculum ~~ I should had had my nose to.

She has a balcony you can do Shakespeare off of ...
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #72
Lives for gear
 
gurubuzz's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcatdigi ➑️
Man, I LOVE that stuff...

I used to listen to each song 3 times: Once just left speaker, once just right speaker, and then with both on. I was always amazed at how the stereo effect was so much more than just the sum of left and right. Kind of like if 1 + 1 =139!!!

And very cool to listen for production qualitys in (semi) isolation.


Man I used to listen to Sargent Pepper's this way.

It was great..... three times the value


Mind you, I first listened to Peppers (properly) at the 20th aniversary - 1987

And I would call it Dual Mono.
Old 10th February 2009
  #73
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
For me there is nothing wrong in hard panning. Not a beatles fan but like all the jazz recordings with some radical panning sounds good to me ....
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #74
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo ➑️
I don't detest the Beatles but as a kid I was rock rebel kid and the Beatles were lame around my crowd. We were into Maiden, Rush, BS, Dio etc... So for kids from that generation the Beatles weren't cool to us. And I love middle of the road rock just not the Beatles.

Apples and oranges. I wouldn't trust gearslutz if everyone felt the same way about everything around here.
I agree with you James,.. I hear what you're saying.

I just don't enjoy listening to the Beatles. I'll still watch TV shows, and read about them - but I don't actively listen to them!

I prefer the bands you've listed above as well.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #75
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
It's been said before, but it bears repeating. The extreme pan stereo are not the records the Beatles made. The mixes they worked on were mono. The stereo mixes we have lived with for all these years were afterthoughts that exist because Capitol wanted stereo.

I would love to to have them release the mono records. If they want to remaster, and it's about time, CDs are big enough to hold both the stereo and mono versions of the albums. PLEASE! Let us have the records as the Beatles made them.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #76
Gear Guru
 
Sqye's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRobb ➑️
. PLEASE! Let us have the records as the Beatles made them.
.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PROBB, OH YEAH, LIKE PROBB PLEASED YOU.....

.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #77
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker ➑️
I think the difference is that on 'Electric Ladyland' the panning is intentional and not just a 'mono afterthought'.
Agreed. From all I've read, stereo was a big deal for Hendrix, whereas Geoff Emerick has been adamant that Beatles stereo mixes were an afterthought until after Sgt Pepper, and that the "real" mixes up to that point are in mono.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #78
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vernier's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Buffalo Springfield is another example of mono that got remixed in stereo. Their first album.
'
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #79
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRobb ➑️
It's been said before, but it bears repeating. The extreme pan stereo are not the records the Beatles made. The mixes they worked on were mono. The stereo mixes we have lived with for all these years were afterthoughts that exist because Capitol wanted stereo.

I would love to to have them release the mono records. If they want to remaster, and it's about time, CDs are big enough to hold both the stereo and mono versions of the albums. PLEASE! Let us have the records as the Beatles made them.
My stereo has a mono button, problem solved.

Seriously, I like what they did with stereo. It's just pop music, it doesn't have to sound "real". Too many perfectionists around here.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #80
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSky ➑️
At least equally funny is some of the tracks from early Supertramp where they had two vocalists exchanging lines and they put one in the center and the other they put phase-flipped on opposite sides of the stereo field.

Sounds great in stereo, but when you play it in mono, the phase-flipped left and right of the second voice null and you can only hear the reverb of his voice, not the actual voice itself. Kinda ghostly and weird until you work out what is going on. After that it's a riot!

Chicago V, Dialogue (Part I&II) Terry Kath on one side, Peter Cetera on the other. thumbsup


Not that you can hear it here, but you get the idea.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #81
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great ➑️
My stereo has a mono button, problem solved.
No. The monos are not collapsed versions of the stereos. They are different mixes. With different balances and different amounts of effects.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #82
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FireMoon's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
As a teen... a bar i use to frequent had its jukebox speakers spread round in a rather random order.. As a result or where i mostly use to sit, when i listen to *Born to wild* all i hear is.....

Get your motor running HAMMOND head out on the highway HAMMOND..

I became so attuned to that, even when i hear it on a normal system the Hammond sounds way louder than it really is
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #83
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka ➑️
Agreed. From all I've read, stereo was a big deal for Hendrix, whereas Geoff Emerick has been adamant that Beatles stereo mixes were an afterthought until after Sgt Pepper, and that the "real" mixes up to that point are in mono.
True. With Hendrix, the extreme stereo stuff was very much the artist's intent. Not with the Beatles.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #84
Lives for gear
 
DeepSpace's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireMoon ➑️
I became so attuned to that, even when i hear it on a normal system the Hammond sounds way louder than it really is
Hey, FireMoon,
No it doesn't - you just *think* it does!
Old 11th February 2009
  #85
Lives for gear
 
ProducerBoy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo ➑️
Oh my God it's like they just invented the pan knob and the boys were hittin' the bong too hard.

The strangest most distracting experience. Vocal hard left, drums hard right with guitars and bass kind of somewhere else not sure. I think the first song I heard was Taxman, man it was weird sounding.

That music is better on a stereo not headphones.
I had the exact same experience on headphones with the Beatles. I have to agree. Some of those stereo mixes are better sans headphones.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #86
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Love the hard panning

I personally think it is another very effective tool for creating impact. I can think of many mixes that just jump because of the hard panning the mixer chose to do.

I LOVE the choices Mr. Clearmountain made on this del amitri tune. Vocals just jump out on the bridge and grab you by the collar...
YouTube - del amitri - roll to me

I wish I had more mixes like this to listen to these days...

Chad
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #87
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo ➑️
I'll try not to take this as an insult.

First off I'm 44 and grew up around Beatle music but was rarely moved by it so I never listened intensly. The Beatles just weren't my thing, I was in the crowd that detested the Beatles (if you're as old as you sound, you know the crowd). I also never listened to music on headphones in my whole life till the advent of the iPod, it just wasn't my thing either. So at 44 I had a fresh new experience! WOW mind blowing.
James, I have two thoughts.

1) I encourage every one of my young employees to take the time and find a way to listen to The Beatles albums back to back, in the order in which they were made, as doing so is like reading an encyclopedia of modern day pop music, record production and engineering and it is a way to see how quickly and how fully they developed as writers, performers, experimenters, producers, etc. AND, one must keep in mind that The Beatles, who arrived in the U.S. in February, 1964, put out their 9th album (Sgt. Peppers) in the summer of 1967. So, we're talking releasing one album every four/five months or so...in addition to touring and making two movies. Can we name any other artist/band in history that has produced so much compelling music in such a short amount of time?

2) If you REALLY want to know about The Beatles, there are two amazing sources. First, Beatles LOVE, the Cirque du Soleil show in Las Vegas. This is probably the easiest way to fully experience those feelings that my generation was lucky enough to witness during our most impressionable years. The show is utterly spectacular, and it is simply a must see for any fan of The Beatles or even pop music in general. The second valuable resource is The Beatles Anthology DVD, although this is something to take in over several nights...so it is a bigger demand on your time. If you want the rush of The Beatles' music, see Beatles LOVE...if you want the entire, in depth story, watch the Anthology.

PS. I just put the 251c manual into the mail for you...hope you're enjoying it!
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #88
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Resonator- I couldn't agree more. Help!, Rubber Soul, Revolver and Sgt Pepper represent TWO YEARS OF DEVELOPMENT. If there is anyone in the history of music who has gone that far in two years, I'd like to know.

It's just extraordinary to think how short their career was when we consider what they accomplished.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #89
Gear Addict
 
van Overhalen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo ➑️
I'll try not to take this as an insult.
Hey, lighten up, it was never meant as an insult !

It was meant as a funny reply.
Squy got it right I think.

Though I generally do not understand why people post negative comments about artists they are not into anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo ➑️
The Beatles were lame around my crowd.The Beatles just weren't my thing, I was in the crowd that detested the Beatles...But still to this day can only listen to a song or 2 before I have to turn it off, just not my thing. And I love middle of the road rock just not the Beatles.
Why bother about the way their stereo mixes are panned if you don't care about them anyway?

It would be sooo easy for me to say something about how weird I find Maiden, Rush, BS, Dio...but why bother ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo ➑️
So at 44 I had a fresh new experience! WOW mind blowing
Yeah, I find it actually really funny that you just found out about the Beatles' panning and immediately had to inform the rest of the world about it. LOL
I can't help it...sorry!
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #90
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRobb ➑️
Resonator- I couldn't agree more. Help!, Rubber Soul, Revolver and Sgt Pepper represent TWO YEARS OF DEVELOPMENT. If there is anyone in the history of music who has gone that far in two years, I'd like to know.

It's just extraordinary to think how short their career was when we consider what they accomplished.
Yes, PRobb, great point. I just can't imagine anyone in our industry who could listen to those four albums in sequence and not be awed by the development of their talent from one album to the next. Going from "The Night Before" and "Ticket to Ride" to "Within You/Without You", "Nowhere Man" and "A Day in the Life". And not to mention, that same time frame saw the release of some of their best singles; Rain/Paperback Writer, and Strawberry Fields Forever/Penny Lane. To think that these four cornerstone albums, each an important step on their journey, were all released over a two year period is, by today's standards, nothing short of amazing, AND to think that they made these records limited by the tools of the day (no midi, no synths, four track recorders which forced you to always be sub-mixing, etc).

Incredible.
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