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How the hell do you get Guitar Rig 3 to sound good?
Old 8th February 2009
  #1
Lives for gear
 
mbradzick's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
How the hell do you get Guitar Rig 3 to sound good?

I've ran clean-amped-miked guitars and DI guitars through Guitar Rig and it takes such a damn long time to get it to sound halfway decent. It's literally like throwing a digital cheese grater against my ears.

Can we discus some techniques on how to get GR to sound pleasant? I have MA5s, 512c's and E27s, as well as an Aurora Audio compressor. I was hoping I could use some outboard to get away from that nasty tone.
Old 8th February 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I use the orange rock setting or something then tweak it from there. (For rock) Still not great and I usually reamp.
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
weezul's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
something about GR3 doesn't agree with me, especially for bass. I've always prefered the sound of Amplitube 2 for Guitars, but have recently had to revert back seeing as any Amplitube plug-in claims its unauthorized in PT8, despite it having a challenge/response system.
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Nut
 
nurfen's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I've actually never managed to get GR3 sounding good on guitars...

But I use it all the time on bass
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Where all amp sims fail is in speaker simulation. Route the sim to a power ampand then into a cabinet loaded with the drivers of your choice then mic the results. Effects, if used, are fairly simple to model with accurate results. Even Preamp sections can be done with some level of satisfactory results. It's when it comes to a moving speaker cone pushing air with a real mic's results where they fall flat on their face.
Old 8th February 2009
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I agree, it really just stinks for anything but maybe bass. I recently got Waves GTR and it wipes the floor with the latter. It sounded so good on bass, I went back and did recent projects bass's with it just to improve it a little!
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
phillysoulman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
GR 2 seems much better
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
mbradzick's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysoulman ➑️
GR 2 seems much better
Yeah, surprisingly so. I can't believe it.
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
GS Community Manager
 
Whitecat's Avatar
For me the trick with GR3 is keep it simple... the more you add to the effects chain, the worse things get (even if in real life it would sound awesome).

Sometimes it's good/smart to use other plug-ins for certain fx if necessary.
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Amplitube sounded better to my ears, I like Guitar Rigs interface better though
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
Agreed's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Spend time with it, learn how to use the power section controls, and especially get used to its cabinet simulation because it is a little counter-intuitive. There are good tones in the program but they take more coaxing than with some other programs. See my on-going comparison of modern amp modeling software here if you're interested in more info.
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Nut
 
mp54u's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
To my ears, the cabinets don't seem to sound as good in most of the Amp Sim Plugins. Go to Guitar Amp Modeling; Index page and start digging in to the info available there. They have some presets that the community has put up there that can be downloaded and could be useful. There might be some better starting points for you that will get you closer to where you want to be with your tone and you can tweak from there.

Also google Guitar Hacks Impulse Responses. There are some pretty good IR's that can be used for better cab simulation. You can find alot of info out there on using the Amp Cabinet impulses that people have graciously put out there for us to try :-) For me though, disabling the cabinet sims in GR2 and using an IR plug after GR2 gave me much better sounds. As always, YMMV :-)
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
I have never had great succes with any amp simulator. Maybe with the exception of clean amps in the Twin Reverb camp. But distorsion no, neither distorting amps or pedal emulations. What I can do with success is add one of my favorit distorsions pedals (real tangible ones) before going through DI to the software or hardware amp simulator that usually helps a lot. Anyway it is what I do in real life too, a pedal or two in the chain going into a clean Twin Reverb.
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
best amp simulations I've gotten is by using the freeware Simuanalog plugin of the JCM800. i use Steinberg's Free Filter plugin and pull the EQ signature from a bank of samples i've acquired, blend EQ and gain to taste. My Guitar player's Less Paul Sounds awesome with the EQ curve from Dream Theater's 'The Mirror.'

I don't think Free Filter is available anymore, I bough my CD over 10 years ago, I;ve tried other EQ matching applications over the years but FF is best for this.

I'll post some examples when I get home tonight.
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
mbradzick's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I'm thinking maybe I can use the miked amp signal and just bypass the cab modelers, keeping the heads or other distortion units.

I actually find Cubase 4's amp sim to be pretty descent although limited in tones.
Old 9th February 2009
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Empire Prod's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Zick ➑️
How the hell do you get Guitar Rig 3 to sound good?
You don't
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
pootkao's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Seriously, why not just buy a small decent tube amp?

You could record an entire record in the time it takes to get these amp sims to produce an even moderately acceptable tone.
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Zick ➑️
I'm thinking maybe I can use the miked amp signal and just bypass the cab modelers, keeping the heads or other distortion units.

I actually find Cubase 4's amp sim to be pretty descent although limited in tones.
The Marshall and Fender tones in Cubase 4 actually sounds really pretty good - better than AT2 and GR3...Peavey Revalver sounds great, but there's NO support and no RTAS.
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Sk106's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I have found that GR3 is not worth the time I put into it. It does sound good and fine, but I just can't get much differences out of the sounds. I have found myself sitting hours and hours and whatever I do the sound just seems to sound different and change character, but it never get much better or comes alive and sings. It's got a kind of 'no personality' flat, almost dead sound about it that just won't come alive without massive efforts.

I have found better luck with the Amplitube 2 and its IK Multimedia siblings. In my opinion, the Amplitube 2 doesn't sound as much better as one might hope, but it does come alive, I get the same kinds of sound I get in GR3 with only very small tweaking time, and if I tweak as long as I did in GR3 I get a very good sound indeed out of the Amplitube.

My 5 cents
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
Agreed's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Amplitube 2 is actually the least impressive of the IK products now, to be honest, though it still puts out some good sounds. They upped their game big time with Amplitube Jimi Hendrix and Metal, and the sound samples on their web site for Fender are pretty mouth-watering. I also seem to get better results running Amplitube 2's models in X-Gear, even when I'm not using them with other Amplitube-family stuff... Something's better about X-Gear, I don't know what it is but try it and I think you'll agree. And it's free to registered owners of any Amplitube product.

Since the forum I keep linking to might be a little hard to navigate and sometimes stops you from browsing if you don't have an account, I've started a blog to archive my reviews and comparisons. It's still pretty basic right now, but I've got comparisons of Mesa, Vox, Fender, and Marshall amps uploaded to it right now. Check it out, Agreed's Gear Reviews, if you want to get some sound examples of the different programs today and see some of my thoughts on using them creatively.
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
RCM - Ronan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire Prod ➑️
You don't
+1
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Dog_Chao_Chao's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
a friend of mine bought the damn thing. came in so I would track some guitars for him. Man, what is that thing? Never heard such a lifeless digital crap. scaring.

My advice would be to buy the cheapest amp and cheapest distortion pedal. there you go, now it sounds 500% better. grow from there.
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Silver Sonya's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Native Instruments doesn't do "real" very well.

Akoustic piano is awful. Grating and hard on the ears.

GR3 = unlistenable.

NI are better at pure innovation. 'Cause, man, Reaktor = gift from God!

Don't look to a synth plug-in company for authentic guitar sounds. If you think about it, it's an unrealistic expectation.

- c
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Bounce's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya ➑️
Native Instruments doesn't do "real" very well.

NI are better at pure innovation. 'Cause, man, Reaktor = gift from God!

- c
Yeah Reaktor killls.
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks for the tip about Cubase amp emulator, never even considered looking at it.

Anyway, I reamp with a real amp for the final recording. I have a Rivera R55-12 which can do both Marshall and Fender sound. Since I lean more towards Fender I have replaced the EL34 tubes with 6L6. With this small amp you can dial in a lot of different sounds and it has several outputs whether you want preamp out or poweramp out.
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #26
Lives for gear
 
H-Rezz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
It's funny to read some of the comments on here from, 'you have to get know it' or 'yes there are good sounds but you have to muck around with this or that ', all seemingly defeat the purpose of actually using a guitar sim in the first place , for quick and easy results ........

I don't know the reason why the OP is using GR3 but it seems to me that setting up an amp with an Sm57 in front of it is quicker and will get better results without the cheese grating.
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
Agreed's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz ➑️
It's funny to read some of the comments on here from, 'you have to get know it' or 'yes there are good sounds but you have to muck around with this or that ', all seemingly defeat the purpose of actually using a guitar sim in the first place , for quick and easy results ........

I don't know the reason why the OP is using GR3 but it seems to me that setting up an amp with an Sm57 in front of it is quicker and will get better results without the cheese grating.
I think there might be a cultural difference between those who think that a digital simulation is "quick and easy" and those who recognize that the skillset of recording a real amp translates only partially, imperfectly to dialing in any given amp modeler. They all have their own idiom, their own nuances. Patience is needed to get over the hump.

Have you ever taken a look at the GR3 manual? Multiply nested frequency-dependent signal splitting, synth-like parameter control options, and tweakable parameters to take "real" modeled effects well beyond their original intentions. And then you've got the amplifier power section and cabinet simulation, both of which must be really well understood to dial in good sounds with Guitar Rig, neither of which works like the real thing. That means there's a learning curve.

If you want quick, pick a different program, mon frere, but you'll have a learning curve with any of them.

Except Studio Devil Virtual Guitar Amp, it's all sort of right there and there just isn't a lot you can do to muck it up. Good program, inexpensive compared to the others, no effects and only two cabinets (it lets you bypass the cab sim to run your own IRs if it suits you, I do so and use the Recabinet library). It's got a noise gate, three-band EQ and presence, preamp and power amp Drive controls, and 18 amp circuits; all accessible from the plug-in's one and only GUI screen. That'd satisfy the "amp modelers must be quick!" folks, I think.
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #28
Lives for gear
 
mbradzick's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pootkao ➑️
Seriously, why not just buy a small decent tube amp?

You could record an entire record in the time it takes to get these amp sims to produce an even moderately acceptable tone.
I have an amazing tube amp...'76 Deluxe Reverb, but the guy who's tracking guitars wants to do DI and clean amped then mixed through GR3.

I think I'm gonna need to reamp. GR3 is a mojo vacuum worse than its predecessors. Or maybe I'm just getting better at hearing good tones
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Dog_Chao_Chao's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz ➑️
I don't know the reason why the OP is using GR3 but it seems to me that setting up an amp with an Sm57 in front of it is quicker and will get better results without the cheese grating.
my point exaclly
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
Jorg's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i actually quiet like guitar rig, especially compared to other similar products out there.
I'm just wondering if a POD pro is better or worse.
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