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Do you need an amazing signal chain to get the quality of bands like Paramore's Riot?
Old 6th February 2009
  #1
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Do you need an amazing signal chain to get the quality of bands like Paramore's Riot?

It seems bands on labels are getting these great recordings that i LOVE the quality and mix of...

Examples:

Paramore paramore on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos
This Providence This Providence (NEW SONG) on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos
The Audition THE AUDITION (Is In The UK w/Alkaline Trio!...) on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

Are million dollar mics/pres/cables/instruments/amps the culprits? or is it strictly the producer/AE?

-evan
Old 6th February 2009
  #2
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plexisys's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
While the better the quality of the signal chain the better the chance to get what you want.

However, what's more important than the gear is an engineer/producer that understands gain structure and the proper use of compressor/limiters.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #3
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It just seems like these mixes and bands sound "different" then other mixes i hear...they stand out to me for some reason...
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
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🎧 15 years
i think plexy is right... my experience suggests a few good tools do help, no question, but after that a really good engineer and musicians who know how to produce a sound they really like for the music they're making are the keys...
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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so to get that sound is just experience? it can be done with mediocre gear?
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
a producer and mixer who understand Pop as much as rock. Got fek all to do with signal chain etc etc. As always - it's in the hands of the users.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
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Max The Dog's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
with good gear stuff will sound good. without good gear you can get stuff to sound good, but you have to work much harder. Crap gear with a lame user will sound like crap. good gear with an expert should sound great. the best guys would never work with less than the best.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
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Chaellus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
no medicore gear wont get you there even with a talented and experinced engineer may be higher end prosumer- high end
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
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So it DOES require pro gear to get that sound

along with PRO ae+producer...

along with PRO musicians...

?
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #10
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kojak's Avatar
 
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Somewhere on GS there's a rather lengthy thread with the guys who recorded and mixed "Riot" where they answer several questions about gear and mix techniques and stuff...search for it, it's a good read if you're looking to achieve a similar sound.

And I agree, as far as pop rock records, the Paramore one was done extremely well. Impressive for kids that age.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
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narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by etcd32 ➑️
So it DOES require pro gear to get that sound

along with PRO ae+producer...

along with PRO musicians...

?
absolutely - i didn't say one could do it with budget stuff. I mentioned that it's to do with the experience of the producer and recordist/mixers.... Selection of the right gear for the right artist for the right sound. Getting a recommendation that is suitable for Paragenerics (can you guess MY opinion !! heh - but lets not get into that) guitarist may not suit you or who you have in mind. So in those terms - the specifics of the signla chain are largely bunk. Knowledge of all the gear and selecting the right stuff is what matters. In the right rooms. With **** hot players....it's all in the fingers....etc etc
Old 7th February 2009
  #12
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by etcd32 ➑️

Are million dollar mics/pres/cables/instruments/amps the culprits? or is it strictly the producer/AE?

-evan
It's never one or the other. You could put me into a world class studio with the best of the best gear and still come out with a lame ass recording, but you could put some talented kid straight out of SAE into an Β£8 p.h. rehearsal room and get pure gold.
Obviously the ideal situation is the best guy in the best room but it's always the people involved that limit how good the end product is going to sound.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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mikymike's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kojak ➑️
Somewhere on GS there's a rather lengthy thread with the guys who recorded and mixed "Riot" where they answer several questions about gear and mix techniques and stuff...search for it, it's a good read if you're looking to achieve a similar sound.

And I agree, as far as pop rock records, the Paramore one was done extremely well. Impressive for kids that age.
Just remember, those guys achieved "THAT" sound w/ extensive use of sound replacement, reeeeaaalllyyyy easy way to get "THAT" sound IMHO>
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #14
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RARStudios's Avatar
 
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🎧 10 years
using programs such as drumagog?
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
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DJamesGoody's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikymike ➑️
Just remember, those guys achieved "THAT" sound w/ extensive use of sound replacement, reeeeaaalllyyyy easy way to get "THAT" sound IMHO>
Thank you..... I was going to say this....... it's quite a bit easier to do that glossy thing when you're using drum samples. Drum replacement with good samples can make a terrible recording sound good, albeit artificial - which is how that record sounds to me.

It's like the CGI graphics in The Matrix. The scene becomes a novelty video game....... but that's a personal thing, and off topic.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #16
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So you can only replace drum sounds and guitar? and bass? (maybe?)
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #17
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikymike ➑️
Just remember, those guys achieved "THAT" sound w/ extensive use of sound replacement, reeeeaaalllyyyy easy way to get "THAT" sound IMHO>
this is laughable mike i'd love to hear your best effort at writing a song and recording it and coming remotely close to the sound of this record.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #18
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Id like to hear the people who are critiqueing this as well..=)


Anyone want to show me some
Before and afters of you actually accomplishing this???
I mean, i for sure cant (Obviously because of lack of resources or i would be attempting it opposed to asking)

anyone?

-evan
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #19
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narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
but you could put some talented kid straight out of SAE into an Β£8 p.h. rehearsal room and get pure gold. .
my ass !!heh
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #20
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman ➑️
my ass !!heh
It may weigh the same as pure gold, but I doubt it sounds as good heh

Haha, yeah I know. It might happen??

Dunno what this whole Paramore Riot trip is all about. Its just another step down the funnel to "cut and paste" "no balls" "generic" "rock? actually a gay pop song with guitars" trash.

Where are the real rock bands?
Old 7th February 2009
  #21
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davedarling's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Do you need an amazing signal chain....

in a word, yes.

cheers dd
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #22
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awakened's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by etcd32 ➑️
It just seems like these mixes and bands sound "different" then other mixes i hear...they stand out to me for some reason...
yes, a good signal chain gets you the good source sound, but in paramores case, its ben. he is a great mixer.


i've heard engineers with high-end gear kill it in the mix . you gotta know how to make everything sit together.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davedarling ➑️
Do you need an amazing signal chain....

in a word, yes.

cheers dd

For that type of record, my opinion differs greatly.

What you need is a budget, because you have to pay a "platinum selling producer" that pays a Pro Tools operator sit in front of the screen for 14 hours a day, in a different room, and beat detective drums, then replace the close mic sounds with the samples du jour, (be it your own, or another Campbell's Soup sample library).

Then, you will have said Pro Tools operator sit and do the same for the vocals, using auto tune, et al....... (this according to Ben's own account : “We’re going in there, note by note, and putting together a vocal that’s realistic. Instead of making (our songs) perfect by industry standards, we’re making (them) perfect by the band’s standard.”)

I'm sure they used some fantastic gear to make that record, but the gear has MUCH less impact on the sound of that record, than do the processes and techniques used.

And FWIW, I'm not devaluing this at all. I do hate that record, and most like it, but for musical reasons. While my aesthetic differs greatly from someone like Dave Ben, he is good at what he does. For that, he deserves respect, and I am more than willing to give him that.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #24
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What's up with the skull on his name? It does it automatically.....
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #25
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hes just that awesome...and i cant see how you hate that album....the music is fantastic...
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #26
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what happens when im the one doing all of that....melodyning, drumagoging, etc

so its just up to me the producer/AE to make it sound "that" way?
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #27
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by etcd32 ➑️
what happens when im the one doing all of that....melodyning, drumagoging, etc

so its just up to me the producer/AE to make it sound "that" way?
of course.

Or hire David Ben, who is obviously really good at this sort of thing.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #28
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Chaellus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hmm i thought i heard there was no triggering for this record...that from the time the AE posted about the record.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #29
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narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB ➑️
It may weigh the same as pure gold, but I doubt it sounds as good heh

Haha, yeah I know. It might happen??

Dunno what this whole Paramore Riot trip is all about. Its just another step down the funnel to "cut and paste" "no balls" "generic" "rock? actually a gay pop song with guitars" trash.

Where are the real rock bands?
tell me about it !!
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #30
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narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by etcd32 ➑️
hes just that awesome...and i cant see how you hate that album....the music is fantastic...

but it isn't!! Well - subjective I guess - but it's yet another example of fame before art..... it's the rock (ha) equivalent of Kate Perry...music to get famous. Sure - I accept you really like it and that's totally okay.... but I really don't like any bands were it's so obviously fame driven....sorry ! Success is fine, laudable in fact, - but music first please....
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