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CDs are going away Slutz. Here comes Memory Cards!!!!
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #31
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DONNX ➑️
Yea like the war against drugs. We need a different angle. hehheh
And that angle is a war against corrupt dfegad ISP's.

It's very simple, and there is no other solution.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #32
Lives for gear
 
bcgood's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I agree, until ISP's are held accountable in some way shape or form it is going to be difficult to control the transfer of pirated material. I like this idea of having audio on the cards. Although I think it's stupid to offer 320 kbps mp3 files. If they offered these albums with the songs as 24/96 wave files then this would be something to celebrate. Eventually it would be nice to hear albums as 1 bit 5.6 MHz DSD files but I know that this is still a ways off.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #33
Gear Maniac
 
Digital Send's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I think CDs will be around for a long time yet:




''According to Pioneer's internal roadmap, its super multi-layer technology development is read-only (ROM) discs in 2008-2010, rewritable discs in 2010-2012 and 1TB (1,000GB) disc in 2013, the company indicated.''


Link to artical is here.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #34
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSky ➑️
Sure, CDs are going away, but as for nothing to replace them, well I don't think the internet is nothing and it sure seems to be the replacement of choice.
But the internet does not 'replace' CD's - it obviates the need for them. The internet is the replacement for record stores, not for CDs. You can't call an MP3 player the replacement for CDs either- an iPod is the replacement for the Discman- for the CD player.

So what has replaced the CD?

A file. Some data. But there already was a file on the CD. Now there is just the file. The CD has been replaced by "nothing" heh

It's not like "Last Time" where LPs were replaced by CDs. In that earlier change, there was a one-to-one correspondence. An object was replaced by another object, cost about the same, marketed the same way, sold in the same stores, money split pretty much the same.

The internet does not provide revenue the same way, nor provide a tangible product to the consumer the same way. The game has changed and some things have NOT been replaced.

Quote:
Economies of scale are such that if they start issuing music on memory cards, the price of 5Gb cards will be down under a dollar pretty soon.
'they' can start issuing music on memory cards tomorrow. Nobody is going to buy them. Nobody is going to be the first to pay too much for them so the rest of us can have them cheaply. Unlike HDTV, where every football fan wants a bigger picture, we audio geeks are the only ones Yearning for 24/96.

Besides, these cards are already manufactured in huge quantities - for phones, cameras, players, jump drives. Yet they still cost quite a bit. There are some serious limitations on the ability to manufacture these devices cheaply, size, speed complexity and heat being a few. These limits will not be cheaply overcome. Compared to stamping some pits on a piece of plastic, well there is no comparison.

The prices of these devices is subject to ongoing battles that are not typical of a technology that can just be 'scaled' into inexpensiveness. The price will be going up before it comes down:

Quote:
Canada (Press Release) January 19, 2009 -- Flash Drive Memory cost jumps 87% in the past 2 weeks



USB flash drive manufacturer Blue Loyal, has seen price increases from its flash drive memory suppliers Samsung and Hynix explode by nearly double in the past 14 days. Company spokesperson, John Graham, states “We have not seen price spikes like this in nearly 18 months”.

Flash drive memory chip suppliers are fighting back from their strategy of buying market share. The extreme price decline seen during the past 9 months that was the spearhead of the drive to corner market share has nearly broken the fiscal backs of the major flash drive chip suppliers.

The collusion between the major chip makers to increase their market share through price cuts failed to produce the results that the chip makers anticipated. This failure to deliver a knockout blow to the minor market chipmakers has prompted the flash drive chip manufacturers, Samsung, Hynix and Intel to reverse course and drive prices back up through the reduction of their manufacturing capacity.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #35
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
every time a new format is released, the industry makes a lot of money. The movie/tv industry has done it with the new HD formats -- why can't the music industry get on board?
Because even my grandmother can tell the difference between a DVD and High Definition television, whereas practically no-one, professionall audio geeks excepted , can tell the difference between a 16-bit 44.1 Khz CD and a 24 Bit 96 Khz disc.

And even if the difference were'nt so miniscule, most modern miusic is so compressed that it's only taking place in the top couple of bits anyway!

The gfture is paid subscription services to a massive library of music kept on servers on the internet somehwere: Pay your 100 dollar yearly subscription fee, and listen to whatever you like via Wi-Fi enabled ipods, phones, computers or whatever you have.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #36
Lives for gear
 
Batchainpuller78's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
bah who cares,
I still buy vinyl, it has been working great for decades.
what do bands still do when they really into the album they releasing??? they also release it on vinyl.
A lot of old albums are being reissued on vinyl so i'm pretty happy with the way that trend is going.

great thing is you have to buy a good record player and audio system, only once and that will keep you happy for years and years, I can play music on it from the 50's/60's/70's/80's/90's/00's
I don't have to worry bout bitrates, conversions and what not, I get great artwork and all I have to do is keep the record clean and the needle fresh.
I don't have to worry bout the sound quality, that's good enough for me.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #37
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by larry b ➑️
Right. CD's...going away!? Craaaazy, thats just crazy. Who'da thunk it?

IMO the automobile market tells the story of consumer music media. When i was a kid cars used to have either just radios or the radio/8-track combination. Then cassettes became all the rage. Car manufacturers began offering the radio/cassette option, with the just radio and radio/8-track still available. Then that was phased out over a number of years until it was just cassette players. Then CD's became all the rage. Car manufacturers began offering the CD player option, with cassette/radio still the standard. Over the years, cassette players were mostly (not entirely) phased out and the radio/cd player became standard. Than a few years back we all began seeing car manufacturers addressing the ipod generation with aux inputs, miniplug line-ins, and yes, memory card slots as options, with the radio/cd player still the standard. These days almost all cars have a way to hook up your ipod or play songs off a memory card as standard. The CD player is being phased out. Wait, what? I said it. Yes. The CD player is being phased out. It's so crazy, i know!
exactly.

It's not as if some manmdate body is deciding to do this. It's an organic process.... companies wanna make money, and if things "catch" the public will want it too. No amount of Fox reporting on it will stimulate a sudden change. CDs will go - no bad thing otherwise our industry is over. But you can't plan the stimulus...you just have to keep developing and hope something sticks (ho ho).

The other thing is - piracy isn't a major contributor to falling music sales. Lack of interest is the major player. There is too much music being made - the democratisation of the industry has allowed EVERYONE to see what a fallacy most music production actually is..... Nearly all new startup bands are looking at the fame rather than making music that represents something. S'funny that the niche areas haven't suffered at all isn't it? Stoner rock, garage rock, trance, political rap - all doing exactly the same now as they were ten years ago. The only thing that has changed is the mass market "we're not really into music" stuff - the Nickelbacks and Kate Perrys of this world.

Art music will survive - it's never been a mass market lucrative area anyway - but it will survive. all that's changing is the MOR.

No bad thing for this listener....
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #38
Lives for gear
 
Unclenny's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️
And Copy Protection is a chimera.
Great word!!
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #39
Lives for gear
 
dougb415's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78 ➑️
bah who cares,

I don't have to worry bout bitrates, conversions and what not, I get great artwork and all I have to do is keep the record clean and the needle fresh.
I don't have to worry bout the sound quality, that's good enough for me.
Might be a bit of a problem in the car, at the gym, etc. Then again I guess you get your exercise getting up and changing the album every 20 minutes or so.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #40
Lives for gear
 
Batchainpuller78's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Gym? you must be kidding?
The car still has a cassetteplayer,
I mean In general I don't feel the need to take music anywhere or to listen to it in all the actions I do during the day.
Listening to music is an action in itself for me, it could be background to some people coming over but even then most of the music I have is so good that it's not really suited to have as background, it demands you to listen to it. heh

I never understood the earbud culture.
I like ambient noise and I can hear music in my head without an Ipod if I wanted to.

about the 20 minutes and change over, I feel that's perfect first male attentions span is weak anyway so longer than that is not necessary, and after 20 minutes you get refocused again as you have to change the side.

I only see plusses on vinyl...
You get something that satisfies the hunter collector as one used to go out to hunt for albums in vinylshops and collects them at home :p
artwork+
sound+
and if it was not for cd's and computers, all you could do is copy it to a cassette and cassette and vinyl are both fading media, so if you really liked an album you'd buy it twice or again after many years if you really turned it grey.
Now are those bad things for the industry?
( of course I went through several cd players versus my 30 year old record player so yes for the throw away consumption industry it's bad)
but for economical ecological standards it's actually better why waste earths resources on stuff that get's thrown away because it fails quicker then something which can service you years and years.

I really don't think I'd get excited about buying a new album on a memory card.
yeah anyway most music these days is not worth a whole lot so it prolly deserves a memory card.

and historic value??? i'll bet ya if this civilization goes down it will be a lot harder to retrieve info from all the computer formats going on from the 80's till now then finding a book or a vinyl which can be read or played with relative simple means in comparison with what you need to play back something on a disk or usb stick.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #41
Lives for gear
 
Martin Kantola's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote from the Fox article:

"The files will be MP3s encoded at a bitrate of 320 samples per second, the highest possible setting ensuring roughly CD-quality sound"



Martin
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #42
Lives for gear
 
Martin Kantola's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulbrother ➑️
Because even my grandmother can tell the difference between a DVD and High Definition television, whereas practically no-one, professionall audio geeks excepted , can tell the difference between a 16-bit 44.1 Khz CD and a 24 Bit 96 Khz disc.
To me, the question is not if we can tell the difference, but if we can enjoy a higher resolution or not. My recent experiment here with 16 vs. 24 seems to indicate that most people can't tell a difference, but I'm not convinced that we lack the ability to enjoy it.

An interesting experiment would be to provide higher and lower bit rates and see which one people prefer buying. If the music is on a memory card there's no longer a download time issue. Don't you think more than a few music lovers might get pretty excited about actually buying an accurate copy/clone of the master tape?

Martin
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #43
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman ➑️
and this is news?

I've been to many many concerts where you can buy the concert on a USB stick for the last 5 or so years..... Sony BMG (ouch) have also been selling albums on USB memory sticks for years.... sloooooow to catch on some of these types!
I think this is the delivery format for indie sales at live gigs along with CDs. Most fans aren't critical about the fidelity loss of going from a CD to mp3. The USB stick is something they can reuse, so after uploading the stick to their player or computer it has some utilitarian value beyond the transfer of music to their mp3 player of choice.

Going to the store to buy music CDs just seems an inconvenience these days for many people. Waiting for them in the mail equally so. Internet transfers of music will be the medium of choice, with USB sticks as a manner of fans giving appreciation to local bands that they like, or as a souvenir from a concert if the USB stick has a printed logo on it.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #44
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
All mechanical disk players and drives are going away soon because they can't possibly compete with the manufacturing cost of solid state storage.

I don't buy that packaged music is going away. It's just moving back upscale where the album started out in the 1950s. It will use some form of memory card and be packaged along the lines of today's lavish CD box sets.

One of the most exciting possibilities is that artists will have control over the user interface and graphics of high resolution and surround flash players. For the first time an album can really be a multi-media experience. The earlier generation stuff was far too primitive to be more than just a gimmick.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #45
Gear Guru
 
10 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
a word about copy protection.

as much as I agree that nothing will keep people from stealing who want to steal, I have to say the RIAA really blew it as the trade organization representing the major labels.

the idea is not to have FULLPROOF copy protection, but to have FOOLPROOF copy protection. a first level deterrent that at least makes transferring files in BULK a little more difficult. Just maybe a little more difficult. An 8 yr old can have 200gb of music they will never listen too...

Realtime copying of music is old school cassette business. It's a pain in the ass and takes to long for most people to put in the effort. Copying GIGS of material in minutes is the problem.

I hope the RIAA gets their act together. I'd love to see the introduction of a hi-rez 24bit/96k format with INDUSTRY STANDARD DRM - which means all digital resellers use the same RIAA approved format.

Could you imagine if every physical record store sold music in it's own propriety format - this is just one of the huge failures of the RIAA in the digital age by not standardizing a digital delivery spec the same way the industry developed and a approved vinyl formats, 8 track tapes, cassettes and CDs.

CDs are dead. Physical media is dead for music sans for the media players themselves.

I beleive the industry will rebound but the winners are the labels with the largest offerings who can take advantage of the long tail. Gross revenue will increase over time, profits will rise as we put the looses of CDs behind us.

However it is the one off artist who really looses as the pie gets divided into more and more slices. Everyone left makes less money. No money.

What no one saw with the "leveling of the playing field" was the leveling of the industry with it... I could go on and on...

Although I think creative people will always find a way to make a living making music, the entire model has shifted. My hat is off to Mr.Lugo who seems to have the drive and hustle to make things work in the new world order.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #46
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
How am I supposed to play these memory cards? At home I listen to music through my very nice cd player/record player, through my very nice amplifier, through my very nice speakers. On a bus/train I listen to music through my sony walkman - yes the model that had megabass. People always comment on how nice my system sounds, even those who have nice converters/monitors on their computer. The reason is simple, my system is made to listen to music, theirs isn't. It seems strange to me that people these days prefer to listen to poorer quality formats than they did 10 years ago. I know you say it will be 24/96 but so what? Does this mean that people are going to invest in quality audio equipment to hook up to their computer? And I don't know about you but I don't keep my computer in the room where I predominantly listen to music. And if they do bring out a player specifically for playing these cards, so what? What's the difference between that and my record player?

I think that the problem is that nobody really listens to music anymore. Most people don't sit down and listen to an album, they will play occasional tracks/parts of tracks whilst they are talking on facebook.

I seriously hope that CD's never fade away because I still buy them very regularly. I am very proud of my CD/record collection which has taken me a lifetime to collect.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #47
Gear Guru
 
charles maynes's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
the delivery method is really irrelevant- value must be ascribed to the IP.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #48
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Kantola ➑️
Don't you think more than a few music lovers might get pretty excited about actually buying an accurate copy/clone of the master tape?
I would!

But according to the article, the record companies don't seem too excited about SELLING an accurate copy/clone of the master tape. tutt

the Gearslutz are talking 24/96, but guess what:

Quote:
"The files will be MP3s encoded at a bitrate of 320 samples per second, the highest possible setting ensuring roughly CD-quality sound"
They want to put high bitrate MP3's on these flash drives. Not even the uncompressed .wavs at 16 bit!

So are the drives going to be 95% empty? Or are bands going to have to write 100 'filler' tunes per album? Either way, it's weird.

The one place that cards win (today at least) is that if you had a race to obtain a very high resolution album, you could drive to the store, buy a flash card, and be back some time before the download finished. Take away the high res, and download wins.

Except of course you won't have this lovely product with a half inch logo on it to hold in your hand and admire.

It is making less and less sense. Are they crazy, or just stupid?

Could it be the flash card supposed to be its own dongle? That it needs to be IN to play? If you want ready access to a lot of songs, are you going to have to carry around dozens of them on a keychain like a school janitor?
Old 13th February 2009 | Show parent
  #49
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadsweeper ➑️
And if they do bring out a player specifically for playing these cards, so what? t.

they already exist and have been out for a long time. I have two tascam players - one at work, one at home. Play 24bit mixes at home to check them out. You can also get a car version.
Old 13th February 2009 | Show parent
  #50
Gear Addict
 
Jay Dee's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78 ➑️
i'll bet ya if this civilization goes down it will be a lot harder to retrieve info from all the computer formats going on from the 80's till now then finding a book or a vinyl which can be read or played with relative simple means in comparison with what you need to play back something on a disk or usb stick.
Voyager - Golden Record
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