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Snare Trick - Old School
Old 6th February 2009
  #1
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ScumBum's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Snare Trick - Old School

Hey guys I don't have sound replacer and I got a track with a snare drum that is not that great .

I heard about this trick where you mic up a nice snare then crank a speaker playing the track with the crap snare and record the nice snare resonating to it .

sound familiar ? whats the best way to do this ?
Old 6th February 2009
  #2
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Realziment's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
hmmm interesting, new technique to me, but if its a crappy snare adding to it will usually not make it uncrappy, the technique sounds cool but maybe with a good sounding snare. maybe get a nice snare sample that works and fits well and just program it in. Just my 2.
Old 6th February 2009
  #3
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Player1's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Player1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum ➑️
Hey guys I don't have sound replacer and I got a track with a snare drum that is not that great .

I heard about this trick where you mic up a nice snare then crank a speaker playing the track with the crap snare and record the nice snare resonating to it .

sound familiar ? whats the best way to do this ?
$200.00+ for Drumagog and your done! I'm currently using it on a CD project for replacement of kick and snare and in some cases the toms too. I will solve your problems quickly!
Old 6th February 2009
  #4
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Ol' Betsey's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum ➑️
Hey guys I don't have sound replacer and I got a track with a snare drum that is not that great .

I heard about this trick where you mic up a nice snare then crank a speaker playing the track with the crap snare and record the nice snare resonating to it .

sound familiar ? whats the best way to do this ?
Well I've never saved a drum track that way but I have reamped snares to add a bit snap/rattle/texture.

What software are you on? You don't really need soundreplacer these days.

But if you just wanna mess around then go for reamping!

R.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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close/far's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I think that method would be more useful if you didn't record a bottom snare mic and wanted one later. Otherwise, I don't know that it will achieve the result that you're after.

Perhaps you could ask an online friend to sample replace for you?

Or you could probably find a free VST plug that generate MIDI data from audio files via threshold, etc. And then you could use the output of that to trigger a downloaded sample or a synth snare or something.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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DCtoDaylight's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If you're using Logic, the audio-to-MIDI function is built in. I've used it to double up kick drums with good success.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
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ScumBum's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm on Pro Tools . I guess I could download a free trial of something . The snare itself is not that bad its an old Rogers , but it was slightly out of tune so it has a annoying bong to it every now and then . I tried EQ but its a tuning problem so it doesn't help .
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
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close/far's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Is the problem only in the snare track, or do you also hear the issues in overhead(s) and/or room(s)?
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
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2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
That is indeed an established old school trick. Lay two drum sticks across the drum and put something like an Auratone facing down on top of them. Feed a tightly gated (and maybe compressed) snare track to the speaker, mic the bottom of the snare and record the result. Then you use the original for hit, and the new track for snap.
Old 6th February 2009
  #10
ITJ
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ITJ's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum ➑️
Hey guys I don't have sound replacer and I got a track with a snare drum that is not that great .

I heard about this trick where you mic up a nice snare then crank a speaker playing the track with the crap snare and record the nice snare resonating to it .

sound familiar ? whats the best way to do this ?

At least, mic the snare from the bottom. Place a speaker(Auratone) speaker face down on the top head. Send the original snare to the Auratone and adjust level, eq, etc until you get the desired sound. Then record back to your MTR.

No sound replacer? Copy a great snare sound. Make a new track and view it adjacent to the original. Tab to transit on the original and then paste copy to adjacent track.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
It's worth trying. I would suggest this:

Tune your snare the way you want it to sound - record a short clip and analyse it to find the resonant frequency (highest peak in the spectrum).

Clone your snare track, and savagely eq this with HPF and LPF to focus the energy into this resonant frequency range. (The idea is not to make it sound good, but to create an appropriate impulse for virtually hitting the snare).

Savagely gate this track, so each hit is very short and there is mostly digital black between each hit.

Compress this track to even out the performance (if necessary). Then, if dynamics are required, draw in fader moves, or whatever techniques work best for you to end up with appropriate dynamics.

Cut & Paste & audio quantise, or whatever takes your fancy at this stage.

I would use a guitar cab, rather than monitor, and power it with a clean, quiet amp (not a guitar amp). But a powered studio monitor would be nearly as good.

Try the cab on it's back, support the snare over the speaker on some foam blocks. The idea is to project these short, sharp shocks into the snare so you can mic it up. The louder the better. Try the snare upside down and right side up - maybe two seperate takes ...

Worth a try ... create a mix out of the various tracks, messing with time & polarity to taste.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITJ ➑️
No sound replacer? Copy a great snare sound. Make a new track and view it adjacent to the original. Tab to transit on the original and then paste copy to adjacent track.
Well, yeah, but the science project is more fun!heh
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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ScumBum's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITJ ➑️

No sound replacer? Copy a great snare sound. Make a new track and view it adjacent to the original. Tab to transit on the original and then paste copy to adjacent track.


I thought of doing the Tab to transient , paste copy thing but on this project didn't want to use samples .

I want to try this old trick . I've never done it before , and see what happens . There actually is no bottom snare mic on the recording so this might work .
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #14
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ScumBum's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwiburger ➑️
It's worth trying. I would suggest this:

Tune your snare the way you want it to sound - record a short clip and analyse it to find the resonant frequency (highest peak in the spectrum).

Clone your snare track, and savagely eq this with HPF and LPF to focus the energy into this resonant frequency range. (The idea is not to make it sound good, but to create an appropriate impulse for virtually hitting the snare).

Savagely gate this track, so each hit is very short and there is mostly digital black between each hit.

Compress this track to even out the performance (if necessary). Then, if dynamics are required, draw in fader moves, or whatever techniques work best for you to end up with appropriate dynamics.

Cut & Paste & audio quantise, or whatever takes your fancy at this stage.

I would use a guitar cab, rather than monitor, and power it with a clean, quiet amp (not a guitar amp). But a powered studio monitor would be nearly as good.

Try the cab on it's back, support the snare over the speaker on some foam blocks. The idea is to project these short, sharp shocks into the snare so you can mic it up. The louder the better. Try the snare upside down and right side up - maybe two seperate takes ...

Worth a try ... create a mix out of the various tracks, messing with time & polarity to taste.
Thanks for the details .

I re tuned the snare so its ready to go .

I also have powered monitors to use .

I guess 240hz would be a good freq to use to pop the snare .

Thanks
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
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2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum ➑️
I thought of doing the Tab to transient , paste copy thing but on this project didn't want to use samples .

I want to try this old trick . I've never done it before , and see what happens . There actually is no bottom snare mic on the recording so this might work .
It's the kind of thing that works great when it works, which is not always. Definitely worth a shot.

Part of the trick is that what gets sent to the speaker should be as short as possible. It's really just an impulse to hit the top head like a stick hit. Gate tightly! And mess with the volume and EQ of the send before you start playing with the return
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #16
ITJ
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum ➑️
There actually is no bottom snare mic on the recording so this might work .

The old school trick works great in situations like this.

Roy Thomas Baker used this trick a lot in the late 70's with The Cars.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCtoDaylight ➑️
If you're using Logic, the audio-to-MIDI function is built in. I've used it to double up kick drums with good success.
can you elaborate on this? i'd love to learn!
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #18
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🎧 15 years
It's one of those things I'd heard of but never tried or witnessed. I've always been suspicious it's just a studio myth.
Love to hear it though if anyone has or can cite an example?
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #19
Led
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Led's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
One of the senior engineers where I started used to do this sort of thing, but he used to use a JBL monitor laying on it's back and sit a snare on top of the speaker, facing right way up. You have to sit it so the snares still rattle. He also used to mic it a little further back.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #20
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axisdreamer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I did this a while back when I was mixing a song and found that the snare sounded too thin.I laid a snare drum right on top of a mackie powered pa speaker laying on it's back. I sen't the gated thin snare to the mackie and set up a mic over top of the new snare and presto it added some body to the old track. It sounded much better then the original snare track.



Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #21
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strat+ac30's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Also be sure to try the old "mult the channel and do radically different things to them", e.g. try to get the crack on one channel and body on the other, etc.

Won't always give you what you're looking for, but might make it less bad.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #22
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ScumBum's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks guys it worked !

It was like a ghost was playing the snare all by itself .
Old 6th February 2009
  #23
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jayfrigo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum ➑️
I heard about this trick where you mic up a nice snare then crank a speaker playing the track with the crap snare and record the nice snare resonating to it.
That's the trick for when you have no bottom snare mic recorded. It doesn't really completely change the main snare sound like sample replacement would. Still, cool trick for what it is.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum ➑️
Thanks guys it worked !

It was like a ghost was playing the snare all by itself .
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #25
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DCtoDaylight's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jicolson ➑️
can you elaborate on this? i'd love to learn!
You use the "Audio to Score " function under the Factory menu in the Sample Editor - you select a MIDI track you want to send the data to, and then open the audio track (which has to be mono) in the Sample Editor.

For the kick drum doubling, I was starting with a stereo track I'd made out of loops; I EQ'd it so that the kick was very prominent, and bounced it to a mono file, which I then ran through the Audio-to-Score gizmo. It has presets for different sorts of program material (drums, guitar, etc.), and you can also futz manually with the various settings. My application was pretty straightforward and it worked well; if I recall right, I adjusted the sensitivity so that it only picked up the kick and not the snare, hat, etc. I've never tried it on anything like a melody line or solo.

Good luck!
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #26
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Barry Lird's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayfrigo ➑️
That's the trick for when you have no bottom snare mic recorded. It doesn't really completely change the main snare sound like sample replacement would. Still, cool trick for what it is.
I agree. I've used this trick several times with more than satisfactory results.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #27
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Joram's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwiburger ➑️
Clone your snare track, and savagely eq this with HPF and LPF to focus the energy into this resonant frequency range. (The idea is not to make it sound good, but to create an appropriate impulse for virtually hitting the snare).
You might try to flip phase of the savalegy eq-d clone track and blend it with the original.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #28
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum ➑️
Thanks guys it worked !

It was like a ghost was playing the snare all by itself .
Audio samples? Before and after?
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #29
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🎧 10 years
I've always wondered if it's the snare coming through the speaker is the main reason why the snare seems "beefed" with this trick....
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #30
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bobsandifer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I used this trick quiet a bit in the 80's but at that time I didnt know everyone else knew about....LOL

To be honest it was simply a way to slightly help a really crappy snare. Now I either use drumagog or the audio to midi function. I have to admit drumagog was one of my best investments in the past 25 years.

What if you sent the snare track to one of your fellow sluts and let them use drumagog to correct the track for you? Seems like a legit way for one of to help out a forum friend in a time of need.
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