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Thickening a band with a single guitar
Old 21st January 2016 | Show parent
  #31
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by phanlon ➡️
Producer's JOB not engineers. Don't know about you but with the producers I've worked with, if I spoke up an said yeah "thats a great idea but we need to double this part with a different guitar/ and or a different amp" I don't think I would get hired again. This is heresy but, have heard stories of a producer/engineer making a record and sending the drums on a stereo track, guitars without di's. Of course the mixer bitches but he wasn't in the room.. and still made it sound great. Make some decisions and commit people. This is not to say do a ****ty job, but I would bet an "A list" mixer would prefer a single great sounding guitar track than the same guitar track with a 57, 121, 421, u67, di all on separate tracks.
And a mixer would prefer two separately tracked, doubled guitar in many situations; not talking about two mics, one take here.

I thought that was obvious.

Hence the "recording a double." From the 7-year old post.
Old 21st January 2016 | Show parent
  #32
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosleepPDX ➡️
And a mixer would prefer two separately tracked, doubled guitar in many situations; not talking about two mics, one take here.

I thought that was obvious.

Hence the "recording a double." From the 7-year old post.
How much better would the beatles records have been if they sent them out to the " hip, best, most posh" mixer of their time? My guess? A million times worse. "Sorry John that distorted tone in revolution doesn't sound like I think it should… Great you sent the DI to me though now I can send it through.. XXX" Mr. Emerick "the drum tones you got sound like **** in tomorrow never knows… there is so much bleed in the snare mic i have no choice but to sample that ****."

We could have the same argument with a million different bands. and you can prove me wrong with a million others.

I didn't even notice its a 7 year old post. But, I have certainly not noticed guitars sounding better in the last seven years. When I listen to the beatles or zeppelin... anyone really I do notice how awesome they sound before people started following the advice mentioned above.
Old 21st January 2016 | Show parent
  #33
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by phanlon ➡️
How much better would the beatles records have been if they sent them out to the " hip, best, most posh" mixer of their time? My guess? A million times worse. "Sorry John that distorted tone in revolution doesn't sound like I think it should… Great you sent the DI to me though now I can send it through.. XXX" Mr. Emerick "the drum tones you got sound like **** in tomorrow never knows… there is so much bleed in the snare mic i have no choice but to sample that ****."

We could have the same argument with a million different bands. and you can prove me wrong with a million others.

I didn't even notice its a 7 year old post. But, I have certainly not noticed guitars sounding better in the last seven years. When I listen to the beatles or zeppelin... anyone really I do notice how awesome they sound before people started following the advice mentioned above.
I don't even mean changing the tone of a track just recording another track played the same or with separate chord voicing or with a different guitar also or with a different amp or any combinations of the above. I have a feeling you are misunderstanding me. Not two separate tracks of the same "take." Two tracks of two takes. Not always necessary and sometimes awesome. Is this making sense?
Old 21st January 2016
  #34
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy ➡️
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyhey ➡️
The tone also,... weezer/sp sounds pedal fuzzy to me and he was going Mesa tube amp. I also wonder if those massive walls are direct to tape, they are so tight, deep and ambience free.
Big Muff Pi, run a gate after it with a low threshold
Thanks! I have a muff and immediately suggested it, ...he didn't want to believe me.. (teenagers)
Old 21st January 2016
  #35
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Those mid-90s post-metal era guitar layered recordings are truly something else. Before the protools grid. I'm guessing guitarists must have spent days getting the perfect layers tracked.

You can hear the clear attack of notes, the timing is perfect. Pretty incredible.

I do notice some songs on the same album ...the guitar tone sounds a little more magical on some than others. So I know producer/engineer must have struggled at least some.

Siamese Dream:
Ocassionally I'll hear a distant layer on one of the sides, (I can tell by a feedback note for example)... So I do wonder how many layers, how they blended them. An absolutely incredible production that breaks so many rules..
(Stereo phaser on the vocals all the time?? Yeah! Why not! Bass/lows way too much? Sure! it will sound great on radio... even after the loudness wars)
Old 21st January 2016 | Show parent
  #36
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyhey ➡️
Thanks! I have a muff and immediately suggested it, ...he didn't want to believe me.. (teenagers)
You'll want to layer it in the mix with the Muff in the back, crunch/palm mute Mesa up front a bit. But the gate after the muff is crucial here or there will be a little trail of fizzle say if they do palm mute stops. The gate (low threshold) will take care of that.

Tell them if they want to recreate this live on stage it's best if the bassist runs the Big Muff or it will get lost in the mix and mess with the bass (phase cancellation say if the guitarist were to run the muff). Best of luck!
Old 21st January 2016
  #37
Gear Addict
 
jakson's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I just experimented quickly in my set up to see if i could get something to work. I have cubase 8 pro. I set up 2 group tracks. then used 2 sends on the guitar track to send to each group channel and then hard panned my group tracks. I eq'd each side a little differently. 1 side was brighter with a little less low end and a small scoop in the mids. The other side i made darker with a mid scoop in a slightly different spot. I sent both of those group tracks to my guitar bus and used brainworx sheadspread to widen the guitars. To my ears it sounded decent
Old 22nd January 2016
  #38
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
 
18 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
The first album I did like this I did the Haas effect thing of sending a duplicate track to the opposite stereo channel with 10-20 ms delay. Sounded weird but OK. I got the job done with minimal knowledge or effort and I was happier than just using a mono sounding guitar.

The more recent thing I did a few years back, we went full on Smashing Pumpkins. Different amps, different pedals, sometimes L-C-R guitars, with a double on the sides and a third up the middle playing the same part. Sometimes tremolo on one side but not the other, etc. I think it sounds a lot more impressive.

You can't fake that sound, you just have to put in the work. You can still use some of the stereo enhancing and M/S plugin techniques to enhance your mixes. I heard the Smashing Pumpkins sometimes would have 40 guitar track on one song, that's crazy, but you can hear how cool it sounds.

Sometimes if you want to make a guitar album, you just need to make a guitar album. The Big Muff is also good advice for the jet plane or saturated sound, of course there are many other options for gain and distortion.

And I agree that the bass plays an important role also, as others have said. You are going to want to crank up the Decapitator or whatever you have to get the harmonics going.
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