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Solid Core Door for a vox booth
Old 1st February 2009
  #1
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skiroy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Solid Core Door for a vox booth

Im going to close off my corner for a vox. My room is 20x20ft and it serves as my control room as well so I obviously wont be listening to the monitors while tracking. My question is when I make the booth how important is it to have a solid core door vs a hllow one? Is a solid core door more for noise isolation? Im IM not monitoring while tracking does it really matter?
Old 2nd February 2009
  #2
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NYMo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hi there,

Having a solid core door will help to keep low freq coming in and going out....but make sure you seal everything...otherwise it will be slightly wasted.

In my studio door i have..a solid core door, a 1 inch thick mdf sheet attached to that and green glue inbetween.

Think about sound coming INTO the vox booth as well as coming out ;-)

Cheers
N
Y
M
O

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Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #3
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skiroy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Dont care bout noise getting out and what noise do I have to worry about coming in.A\C vents and computer fan only noise sources.They wont be gone without a solid core door.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
A word of advice from experience ... when getting your solid core door made, don't cheap out and use MDF. Use plywood - it won't cost much more, and it will be far more solid.

The problem with MDF, which you probably would never think of, is that it can be compressible. And that means that when you have your door handles installed, they will work loose as the MDF compresses ...

Also don't be afraid to put a window in this door - as big as you want. As long as you use double glazing with different thickness glass, so the resonant frequecies of one pane get stopped by the other pane. Don't accept normal double glazing, which is far too thinly spaced. You have the whole thickness of the door to use, and then some, so make the most of this distance.

Airtight sealing all around the door is essential, because the smallest crack defeats the purpose. Think about refrigerator doors ...
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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TEMAS's Avatar
If you apply the primary principle for sound isolation, which is Mass > Air > Mass, then having a hollow core door can actually work better than a solid core door. And this is a technique, which is recommended over at John Sayers forum.

I started with a Β£30 hollow core door and added one layer of MDF and one layer of plywood on both sides (different thicknesses works best. You end up with a very thick door, but in theory it will outperform most solid core doors and is actually pretty cheap and easy is build.

In my opinion, cutting a hole for a window and getting it air tight is really quite difficult and you'll need some seriously thick glass. I've tried making windows and unless you know what you're doing you could ruin the performance of your new thick door.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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NYMo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hi there,

When they are talking mass air mass...the air should be 4-6 inches...not 3/4 in !
(How do i know ??...i spent 8 months reading 4 hours a day at John Sayers site

Cheers
N
Y
M
O
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
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TEMAS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMo ➑️
When they are talking mass air mass...the air should be 4-6 inches...not 3/4 in !
Depends what range of frequencies you are trying to isolate. A one inch air gap will help prevent a lot more frequencies than no gap.

Lots of info over at John Sayers about the hollow core technique that Knightfly recommends.

John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum • View topic - Installing a door - anything I should keep in mind?
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
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skiroy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This is not really addressing my question. What sound am I isolating from? I recording vox in a room with no noise besides when A/C running and a PC fan and a quiet ventilation system fan for the booth. Are you saying that I should be concerned enough about solid core vs. hollow core door in my situation?

Im going to cover the walls in the booth with 703 or ultratouch. So this should cover any reverb issues,even if I l put not treat ment on the door,wether its solid or not,right?



Also Im going to screw the wall studs directly into the floor carpet. Is this going to be that big of a deal,since it may not be very air tight there? REMEBER my sistuation.My control room is my vox area so no monitoring,no other intsrument going or anything else going while recording in the booth.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
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CompEq's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiroy
What sound am I isolating from?
I would assume you want to monitor the sounds you are recording. If you're doing that through headphones then you've got problems other than leakage , but if you've got nearfields or mains going then leakage will be an issue you'll want to address.
Old 2nd February 2009
  #10
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Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiroy ➑️
Is a solid core door more for noise isolation?
Definitely yes, a solid core door provides much more isolation than a hollow core door.


Quote:
Originally Posted by skiroy ➑️
What sound am I isolating from?
You are isolating from every sound.

I think several people are telling you that but it seems like you have your mind already made up.

TW
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
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goldenlotus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Why are you building a booth if you don't need isolation? Recording vocals in a small room, you will encounter many more problems than you will be helping. If you like to monitor with headphones on, why not put acoustic treatment in one corner to create a dead corner? Have your vocalist stand with their back to the corner projecting out into the room. You can vary the amount of ambience by pulling the mic away or moving it closer to the vocalist.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
To make things simple, call a local millwork shop and custom order a solid woodcore 1 3/4" thick rabbited jamb prehung with bubble weatherstripping and the adjustable threshold with 4 1/2" hinges.
Ask for it to be prepped for a standard 2 1/8" hole, 2 3/4" back set lock hole.
If you want a piece of glass, specify insulated glass lite / size / location.

It will come ready to install into your rough opening...of course it would be wise to give them the size of your rough opening prior to ordering.heh

Good luck!
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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skiroy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlotus ➑️
Why are you building a booth if you don't need isolation? Recording vocals in a small room, you will encounter many more problems than you will be helping. If you like to monitor with headphones on, why not put acoustic treatment in one corner to create a dead corner? Have your vocalist stand with their back to the corner projecting out into the room. You can vary the amount of ambience by pulling the mic away or moving it closer to the vocalist.
Tracking with headphones is not unheard of. Yes I want isolation but Im asking in my situation how much is a solid core door really going to matter since my noise Im dealing with is low level(headphones,pc fan,A/C)?
This is my question.

But I want the booth because I do rap and I was told a smaller space is desirable for a more intimate vox.The space will be 6ft x 6ft. All walls covered with 2" ultratouch and covered with pyramid foam and bass traps on ceiling.

And why would you face artist with back facing treated corner?My corner is treated,Dead flat but I always face the treament. I thought the idea was to absorb the sound into the treatment so it doesnt reflect back.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
You don't need a solid core door in your case.
Solid core doors don't really attenuate sound like you'd think.

It is the same as comparing a cinder block wall to a properly built, double wall with double thickness sheetrock.
The cinderblock wall will allow more sound to be transmitted.
Look at the specs and measurements in books.
Rigid structures transmit more sound energy than flexible structures.
The flexible structure will absorb the sound energy.

Two hollow core doors with an air gap works OK.
One solid core door with proper treatment applied also attenuates a lot of sound energy.

If you don't seal the edges properly it won't matter what you use, so do that part right, too.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
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goldenlotus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiroy ➑️
And why would you face artist with back facing treated corner?My corner is treated,Dead flat but I always face the treament. I thought the idea was to absorb the sound into the treatment so it doesnt reflect back.
Because your mic is directional, so it picks up the most sound from the direction it is facing. If you have your mic facing the corner, it rejects most of the sound coming back from the room and whatever does get reflected is absorbed by the foam/traps in the corner.

Try it out you'll probably get a drier sound.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #16
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Why not get portable baffles ( I use office cubicules) that you can make your "booth" what ever size you need..If you want more intimate ( focused/drier) vocals, move the baffles closer around you. If you want more air in the signal, move the baffles further away..Good luck
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #17
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skiroy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Has anyone tried to hang those sound proof curtain or sewing a porous cloth with some ultratouch in it and hang it from the ceiling to close off a corner.I know this would provide no isolation but it should create the intimate effect right,or no?
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #18
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mikymike's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwiburger ➑️
A word of advice from experience ... when getting your solid core door made, don't cheap out and use MDF. Use plywood - it won't cost much more, and it will be far more solid.

The problem with MDF, which you probably would never think of, is that it can be compressible. And that means that when you have your door handles installed, they will work loose as the MDF compresses ...

Also don't be afraid to put a window in this door - as big as you want. As long as you use double glazing with different thickness glass, so the resonant frequecies of one pane get stopped by the other pane. Don't accept normal double glazing, which is far too thinly spaced. You have the whole thickness of the door to use, and then some, so make the most of this distance.

Airtight sealing all around the door is essential, because the smallest crack defeats the purpose. Think about refrigerator doors ...
Whatever you do, do not listen to this advice. MDF is the BEST thing you can use for sound-proofing. DO NOT PUT A WINDOW IN THE DOOR!!! He is correcy about the seals though.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #19
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mikymike's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba ➑️
You don't need a solid core door in your case.
Solid core doors don't really attenuate sound like you'd think.

It is the same as comparing a cinder block wall to a properly built, double wall with double thickness sheetrock.
The cinderblock wall will allow more sound to be transmitted.
Look at the specs and measurements in books.
Rigid structures transmit more sound energy than flexible structures.
The flexible structure will absorb the sound energy.

Two hollow core doors with an air gap works OK.
One solid core door with proper treatment applied also attenuates a lot of sound energy.

If you don't seal the edges properly it won't matter what you use, so do that part right, too.
This is true. 2 seperate walls, 2 solid core doors, 2 sets of seals is adequite for about any situation. If its in the budget, 1 IAC 51 stc door will do, ($10,500 installed)
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #20
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skiroy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Do I have to double up on the dry wall on the out side booth wall as well as the in side and is there an altenative to green glue?Is doubling thw alls really neccessary for the level of isolation I need for A/C vents,headphones and ceiling fans?

Last what do I NEED to stuff the walls with if anything?
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
stuntbutt's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiroy ➑️
Dont care bout noise getting out and what noise do I have to worry about coming in.A\C vents and computer fan only noise sources.They wont be gone without a solid core door.
Why not isolate computer fans from your "control room" and record vocals in the control room? That scenario worked for me for many years. Make a corner dead and set up the singer with his back to the corner. The null of a directional mic is facing the noise. In some ways I actually prefer this method to a booth because it allows direct communication with the vocalist.

Of course, if you are working with guys who ask you "where is the booth?"............
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #22
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skiroy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I think Im going to try that.But a booth just has that cool factor.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #23
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skiroy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
If I do do the booth does the walls have to be stuffed with something specific?
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #24
jhg
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jhg's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
things to stuff it full of

stuff it with (quiet) ac/ventilation
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #25
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skiroy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Not standard fiberglass insulation? Does this A/c insulation the kind that has the silver film on one side?Is it cheaper?
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