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How to vary distance in/with reverb?
Old 31st January 2009
  #1
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
How to vary distance in/with reverb?

I'm paying a lot more attention to space, width, and depth. I am already sending tracks to auxes (reverbs, delays) post pan. This, wider panning, and a better clock seem to help with width. But what of depth?

Maybe a stupid question: how do I make something sound more distant? You'd think I'd know; but I don't.To me it's not the same as simply making it more wet. Not just lower volume either, or wetter and softer, but back a bit or a lot in the field? I don't have a large room so it has to be ITB. I had the idea of setting up 2-3 reverbs in the same space, either similar IR's (small wood room, medium wood room, large wood room) and sending tracks to them accordingly (or blending them differently for each track, where each track goes to all three to different amounts); OR setting up the same reverb with three different predelays (is this a driver of percieved "distance"?).
Forget all that: how to do create a sense of distance?
I think UAD DreamVerb has a distance knob or slider, but I'd like to know what this does and how to achieve it in IR-1 or Altiverb without needing a separate reverb instance for every track (unless that's the only and best way).
Juts looking for a lively and musical realistic soundstage. I like the sound of a band in a room or on a stage. Just that.
What do you advuse? How do you do it? How dumb am I?
Thanks!
Old 31st January 2009
  #2
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Mike Brown's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slopeshoulder ➡️
I'm paying a lot more attention to space, width, and depth. I am already sending tracks to auxes (reverbs, delays) post pan. This, wider panning, and a better clock seem to help with width. But what of depth?

Maybe a stupid question: how do I make something sound more distant? You'd think I'd know; but I don't.To me it's not the same as simply making it more wet. Not just lower volume either, or wetter and softer, but back a bit or a lot in the field? I don't have a large room so it has to be ITB. I had the idea of setting up 2-3 reverbs in the same space, either similar IR's (small wood room, medium wood room, large wood room) and sending tracks to them accordingly (or blending them differently for each track, where each track goes to all three to different amounts); OR setting up the same reverb with three different predelays (is this a driver of percieved "distance"?).
Forget all that: how to do create a sense of distance?
I think UAD DreamVerb has a distance knob or slider, but I'd like to know what this does and how to achieve it in IR-1 or Altiverb without needing a separate reverb instance for every track (unless that's the only and best way).
Juts looking for a lively and musical realistic soundstage. I like the sound of a band in a room or on a stage. Just that.
What do you advuse? How do you do it? How dumb am I?
Thanks!
Try low pass filtering your reverb return (even way down to 2k or farther)...

Also try adjusting the "pre-delay" to somewhere between 5 ms to 35 ms.

The pre delay controls how long the reverb holds onto the signal before letting out the reverbed signal.... basically just like adding a delay in front of the reverb. its CRUCIAL for reverbs especially in dense mixes.
Old 31st January 2009
  #3
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JoeyM's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
What kind of audio project are you doing?

Certain style of music or game development? Like if you wanted depth in a game then Waves doppler might help, or if it's an R & B vocal maybe something different would work like a strictly mono reverb.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #4
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vernier's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
You have dry signal and reverberated signal. To place something further away, reduce the dry signal.
'
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Emi
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🎧 10 years
when tracking, try to track the source thinking what is the final result you want it to sound. If you want it distant, put the mic at a larger distance from the source. If you don´t have the room than track it the best way possible and than you can try with eq by roll off highs and lows. If it´s stereo, pan it more to center.

this apart of reverb, delays and other canned stuff

hope it helps!
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vernier ➡️
You have dry signal and reverberated signal. To place something further away, reduce the dry signal.
'
Sometimes this just makes it quieter, but not further back. You know sometimes you want to give the illusion that the sound is literally coming from across a space, but without the apparent attenuation.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #7
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🎧 15 years
My music is warm melodic pop rock. Half british (think recent Crowded House, Elbow, Keane) and half American (think Ryan Adams, Neil Young, Tom Petty). Some very acoustic (Elliot Smith, Iron & Wine, James Taylor), with touches of ambient (greetings mr. Edge, but i handle that with delays). "Dammit Jim, I'm a musician, not a journalist!" It sounds like me!

So VARYING depth/distance by instrument track is a function of fader down send up? That's not just adding more wet? more mess? Will I inadvertently cloud up my mix with somewhat louder reverbs on somewhat softer instruments? Is that how we hear? I'm talking about real but somewhat shallow depth (i.e. singer is right here, drums are back 15 feet, there's some guitars in the middle, and some background vocals and percussion in there too), not a canyon. Will using multiple instances of the same space or similiar space not give me a bit more...clarity? control? realism?
I really hear this on Ryan adams records, natural from intimacy to roominess. It just sounds like a band, as opposed to a "record." Man I hate "records."
Thanks and please keep 'em coming.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #8
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi ➡️
when tracking, try to track the source thinking what is the final result you want it to sound. If you want it distant, put the mic at a larger distance from the source. If you don´t have the room than track it the best way possible and than you can try with eq by roll off highs and lows. If it´s stereo, pan it more to center.

this apart of reverb, delays and other canned stuff

hope it helps!
Yeah, recording in a booth (treated whisper room), with maximum distance of a bout 4 feet). But even that would help on many parts. Thanks. I'll do that more.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Emi
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Emi's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
sorry, I´ve missed the word "VARY". Try eq automation
Old 31st January 2009
  #10
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by slopeshoulder ➡️
What do you advuse? How do you do it? How dumb am I?
Thanks!
Don't localize the sound.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor ➡️
Don't localize the sound.
Can you elaborate? Thanks.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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🎧 15 years
making things distant.....

When things are close to use, we hear the highs , and lows to a greater degree, as well as , if we're in a small room, quicker early reflections. Making something wetter doesn't necessarily make it sound farther away. You could be close to something , in a highly reverberant room, but still think the instrument were close. I think the best way to create depth is a combination of high and low pass filtering, along with early reflections levels, pre delay, and the eq of the reverb itself.... ( All mix elements are relative, so in accordance to this, depths can be created by varying these parameters...)
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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Beyersound's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukejs ➡️
When things are close to use, we hear the highs , and lows to a greater degree, as well as , if we're in a small room, quicker early reflections. Making something wetter doesn't necessarily make it sound farther away. You could be close to something , in a highly reverberant room, but still think the instrument were close. I think the best way to create depth is a combination of high and low pass filtering, along with early reflections levels, pre delay, and the eq of the reverb itself.... ( All mix elements are relative, so in accordance to this, depths can be created by varying these parameters...)
I totally agree with this and would like to add that panning of the different mix elements will really create space and depth like nothing else. I don't subscribe to the LCR only theory, the combination of panning and reverb/delay,etc creates what you need.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #14
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🎧 15 years
yes...panning...

Yes..I forgot about panning.... in real life , we localize left and right placement mainly from the haas effect and interaural time differences..... ( I think this is it... ) where , because we first hear reflections coming from the side where the instrument is closest, we determine where it is in the soundstage ( as well as the fact that the ear that's closer to the source receives the sound first). It would be neat if reverbs had a pan control, where, when something is panned to one side, the early reflections, eq, and reverb would change to better reflect reality. I guess you could set up 2 stereo aux busses for each reverb, each reverb panned to left and right, and each one would have the early reflections and eq set depending on where the instrument was panned.... This would seem to match reality to a closer extent. (but could be a bit taxing on the cpu since each instrument would have two reverbs patched in) I guess they do kinda have this with convolution reverbs, where you can sometimes choose an impulse that was taken from one side of the acoustic space being sampled..
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Emi
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukejs ➡️
When things are close to use, we hear the highs , and lows to a greater degree, as well as , if we're in a small room, quicker early reflections. Making something wetter doesn't necessarily make it sound farther away. You could be close to something , in a highly reverberant room, but still think the instrument were close. I think the best way to create depth is a combination of high and low pass filtering, along with early reflections levels, pre delay, and the eq of the reverb itself.... ( All mix elements are relative, so in accordance to this, depths can be created by varying these parameters...)
thanx for elaborate what I´ve said, sometimes I don´t explain myself well
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #16
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magibatalla's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukejs ➡️
When things are close to use, we hear the highs , and lows to a greater degree, as well as , if we're in a small room, quicker early reflections. Making something wetter doesn't necessarily make it sound farther away. You could be close to something , in a highly reverberant room, but still think the instrument were close. I think the best way to create depth is a combination of high and low pass filtering, along with early reflections levels, pre delay, and the eq of the reverb itself.... ( All mix elements are relative, so in accordance to this, depths can be created by varying these parameters...)
+1
Start experimenting with low-passing the signal. Immediate results. Shall I recommend you a worthy reading?

Amazon.com: Understanding and Crafting the Mix, Second Edition: The Art of Recording: William Moylan: Books

Lots of useful information about subjects like what you're asking. Priceless!
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