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DBX 163X
Old 30th July 2009 | Show parent
  #31
Gear Guru
For real low noise use a AD8599 or a BB OPA2211 for the dual and a AD8597 or OPA211 for the single, those are very low noise opamps. They are S0-8 only so use a Brown Dog or Aries adaptor into a millimax machined socket.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 30th July 2009 | Show parent
  #32
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
i'm actually not a freak about noise, but these 163x's were distractingly noisey. not sure if the 2180 was supposed to help the noise, but it did. i've got all the low noise chips you recommended on order as well as some of the ones you previously mentioned so i'll socket them and mess around. i'm interested in tone (thickness? "mojo"??) over low noise so i assume i'll probably end up using the nationals.

also i'm going to make ghetto fabulous adapters out of sockets for the 8SOIC chips because it seems a little weird to spend $5 on an adapter for a $3-$5 chip. (plus the more soldering practice the better)

thanks for de-mystifying DIY one post at a time.
-will
Old 4th August 2009 | Show parent
  #33
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
just for posterity (and for newbs like me) i believe the 470uf caps to be replaced by 1000 or 2200 are c28 and c29.
Old 4th August 2009 | Show parent
  #34
Registered User
 
vernier's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Btw, 163 is the only non-tube compressor I keep around.
Old 3rd October 2009 | Show parent
  #35
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Reid ➡️
Can someone please explain what this mod does to the sound ?
i'd second this request --- can anyone give an idea of how the sound is affected ?
Old 22nd January 2010 | Show parent
  #37
Gear Maniac
 
wrekdahouse's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
hello, does anyone knows how this compresor compares with the old dbx 166 over easy, the one with the red knobs, made in china, with peakstop and gate, comparing them soundwise ?

thanks in advance

Patricio
Old 22nd January 2010 | Show parent
  #38
Lives for gear
 
edvdr76's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrekdahouse ➡️
hello, does anyone knows how this compresor compares with the old dbx 166 over easy, the one with the red knobs, made in china, with peakstop and gate, comparing them soundwise ?

thanks in advance

Patricio
I have both and I find the 163x to be more agressive sounding than the 166. Similar in sound though....
Old 22nd January 2010 | Show parent
  #39
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by edvdr76 ➡️
I have both and I find the 163x to be more agressive sounding than the 166. Similar in sound though....
hmm, i was thinking about trying to score a pair of 163x's, but i'll just hold out for another 166, then. i love my DBX comps. my 160x's and 166 the most.
Old 22nd January 2010 | Show parent
  #40
Gear Maniac
 
wrekdahouse's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
very interesting, i will go for the 163x, already have some 160xt so i think this will do good for my setup...
thanks !
Old 22nd January 2010 | Show parent
  #41
RTR
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
so what are you guy's using your 163x on these day's?
I have to ship mine out for a mod but am broke at the moment!
Old 22nd January 2010 | Show parent
  #42
Registered User
I have a pair of modified DBX 163X's. I went all out, bypass capacitors, new VCA and op-amps, new electrolytic and film capacitors...I use them on a drum buss on occasion.
Old 22nd January 2010 | Show parent
  #43
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTR ➡️
so what are you guy's using your 163x on these day's?
I currently own the DBX 163X, 166, 160X and a 128.

I often use the 163X on bass guitar. It is somewhat thinner sounding than the 160X which is warmer/rounder/fuller sounding with more lo end but the 163X often sounds somewhat more defined. Obviously it all depends on the track but in most cases i prefer the 163X.
Old 8th February 2010 | Show parent
  #44
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Hello everybody,

I'm a beginner DIYer... and I would like to try some of the John williams mods. More precisly, I really would like to understand when someone says "swap out" resistor etc.. does it mean cut the component, and live an "open loop" at this place ? or does it mean "replace with a 0 Ohm wire" ?
Same question concerning the caps ...

Thank you for advance, and sorry for the obvious answer you certainly have to make...


peace
Old 8th February 2010 | Show parent
  #45
Gear Head
 
Derrick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
wullong, I think people mean the more traditional use of the word 'swap'. You would be expected to swap one component value for another weather it's a cap or resister. If you are simply expected to remove or short (bridge with a o ohm wire) a component, that should be made clear. I'm surprised that this isn't clear to you though because usually when you are directed to swap a component, the direction gives a value to swap with. A bit of advice... careful with the soldering iron so as not to heat the board long. If you do, you will lift the traces on the board and that sucks! Practice on a piece of junk first to get the feel of the work Good luck.
Old 8th February 2010 | Show parent
  #46
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Derrick,

I'm sorry, I must confess that I'm french and that I confused some words a little. Thank you for the explanation about "swap". Actually, the I would have been glad to have details about is more "remove". If I remove a resistor, leaving an empty space is equivalent to put a infinitely big ohm resistor. Is that what "remove" technically means ? Or does it mean that I remove the resistance on current putting a 0 ohm bridge ? The same (or to be precise, the inverse) question is on capacitors.

No problem, I have some experience with soldering and unsoldering, I'm quite precise and carefull, that ok for this part.

again, sorry and thank you !
Old 8th February 2010 | Show parent
  #47
Gear Head
 
Derrick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Oh, no need to apologize. Cheers up there to France from the USA. I toured through there in a band for the better part of a month and loved it!

If the instruction is to remove, then there is no need to add a wire bridge in it's place unless instructed to do so. Sometimes instructions leave out things that are pretty obvious, but adding a wire in place is a very specific instruction. If the instructions says to remove and nothing else for that step, then that is all I would expect the modifications is calling for. Hope that helps.

Derrick
Old 9th February 2010 | Show parent
  #48
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➡️
For real low noise use a AD8599 or a BB OPA2211 for the dual and a AD8597 or OPA211 for the single, those are very low noise opamps. They are S0-8 only so use a Brown Dog or Aries adaptor into a millimax machined socket.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Merci Derrick !

Just to be sure, on mouser, OPA211 and OPA2211 are the to names for the same opamp.

So John, did you mean "OPA2111 for the single" ? Or is it the same for the tow opamps (weird)? I prefer to ask, for ~10$ opamps...

Thanks !
Old 15th February 2011 | Show parent
  #49
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Summary of this thread

Hi. This is my first post in this forum and I just wanted to start by saying thank you to the people who provide this valuable assistance, in particular Jim Williams.

I have a 163X that I now (from reading this thread) realize was made in Hong Kong. I've put together a summary of all the questions and answers in this thread and hope to get a little clarification. Here's what I've gathered from this thread:

DBX 163X Upgrade:

1. The 163x (made in Hong Kong) has the C1252H2 (IC1) like the 160x.

* Jim Williams: That's the older marker for the same vca chip. Yank it, drop in
a that 2180A and remove the 47/51 ohm resistor at pin 4 and remove the
100k trim resistor off the vca trim pot to pin 4.


2. The 2nd chip (IC2) is a C1253H2. Should it be replaced with the 2180A, like the C1252H2?
Damn Yankee replied with: I answered my own question about the other chip.

However, I don't see the answer to this one and I'm a newb to these types of mods. Can someone confirm if it's supposed to be replaced with the 2180A also? If not, what chip should it be replaced with?


3. Do I yank R9 (47k) & R10 (100k) and what do I do with R11?

Or do I yank R10 (100k) & R11 (47k) and what do I do with R9?
R9 & R11 are both 47k...

* Jim Williams: Snip out R9 (47 ohm) and R10 (100k ohm). Leave the 1253,
it's the RMS detector. R11 the trim pot can stay.


4. Is it okay to substitute the THAT 2180A with a THAT 2181?

* Jim Williams: The 2180 is pre trimmed. The 2181's are not and so you would
need a decent distortion analyzer to set it for lowest THD. The A grade is
their best.


5. What exactly does the the cutting of R9 and R10 do? (i assume from the discussion they are cut, not jumpered). are they something that is done only with the upgrade to the 2180 chip or are their effects heard with the stock chip.

* Jim Williams: Those resistors are for the that 2180A replacement only. Leave them if the original VCA is kept. The dual input opamp can be swapped for a National LME49860NA and the output 5534 opamp can be a LME49710NA or a ADA 4898-1 or similar. Replace the small 470 uf mains caps with 1000 uf or 2200 uf if you can fit them.


6. Would these 470uf mains caps be C14 and C21? (i'm going to assume the 1M50E1 @ C13 and C20 are fine as-is). Going to assume 25v is what they should be since it looks like they are running to the +/- 24v, but i'll double check what's currently in there. I’m also going to put in some sockets for the input/output IC's. So far the 10 bucks per unit for the THAT 2180 seems to be worthwhile, hopefully 20-ish total for new vca, in/out op amps, and mains caps will be a big step from the original unit.

* Jim Williams: For real low noise use a AD8599 or a BB OPA2211 for the dual and a AD8597 or OPA211 for the single, those are very low noise opamps. They are S0-8 only so use a Brown Dog or Aries adaptor into a millimax machined socket.

* Against88: the 470uf caps to be replaced by 1000 or 2200 are c28 and c29.


7. The last question was not been answered directly: "Just to be sure, on mouser, OPA211 and OPA2211 are the to names for the same opamp. So John, did you mean "OPA2111 for the single" ? Or is it the same for the tow opamps?" However, looking back at Jim's initial response, I think it's clear.

* Unanswered.
-------------------------------

So the only questions I have are:

1. Can the 2nd chip in IC2, a C1253H2, be replaced with the 2180A, like the C1252H2 chip in IC1?

2. Does anyone have any good sources for the parts discussed in this thread:
- 2180A chips
- National LME49860NA
- LME49710NA or a ADA 4898-1
- Capacitors: has anyone verified if there are particular 1000uF or 2200uF that will and won't fit?

3. An answer to #7.

-------------------------------

Thanks. I hope I didn't miss anything and I hope that summarizing this helps others who stumble upon this thread in the future. My honest intention is to help by consolidating all the info, so hopefully that's what I've done.
Old 15th February 2011 | Show parent
  #50
Registered User
 
Marshman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
@keastland...

1. Jim does say the 1253 is the RMS detector. Not replaceable with the 2180 or 2181 which are VCA's.

2. You can source all these at many places. They are common. Mouser and Digikey would be good starts.

3. The OPA211 and OPA2211 are more than likely different chips. Google the data sheets and be enlightened!! MY GUESS is that one is a single op amp, and the other a dual op amp. Pin outs will be different and not interchangeable.

mm
Old 15th February 2011 | Show parent
  #51
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshman ➡️
@keastland...

1. Jim does say the 1253 is the RMS detector. Not replaceable with the 2180 or 2181 which are VCA's.

2. You can source all these at many places. They are common. Mouser and Digikey would be good starts.

3. The OPA211 and OPA2211 are more than likely different chips. Google the data sheets and be enlightened!! MY GUESS is that one is a single op amp, and the other a dual op amp. Pin outs will be different and not interchangeable.

mm
1. Sorry, missed that.
2. Yeah, I usually go to DigiKey for things of this nature. I was just wondering about the 2180A. Thought they might be more of a specialized item.
3. My thoughts too. This was partially to obtain more clarification and partially just to consolidate.

Thank you!
Old 16th February 2011 | Show parent
  #52
Registered User
 
HudHudson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
For those of you who are still looking for a 163X manual, it's printed in its entirety on the rack mount kit.
Attached Thumbnails
DBX 163X-dbx-163x-manual.jpg  
Old 16th February 2011 | Show parent
  #53
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
More questions (and links)

It appears that the DBX 163X I have is the one made in Hong Kong, so the board layout is a bit different than the schematic shows.

I ordered the 2180A for IC1 from Mouser.
- 2180AL08-U THAT Op Amps

I'm getting a couple different 1000uF capacitors from DigiKey for the C28 and C29 (ordering different units because they're different heights and I just want to make sure they fit... and WTH... they're cheap).
- Digi-Key Part Search
- Digi-Key Part Search

Here's my questions (one of them is most likely REALLY dumb):

1. I have two other capacitors that are bad/leaking. They're on C12 and C16. They only say 334J on the outside of them. Looking at the schematic, I can see that they're .33uF, but I can't find any other info on them. Entering 334J on DigiKey's search brings up a lot of options. First, are these particular caps stacked film capacitors? IF so, they range in volts from 50 all the way up to 630. Lastly, regarding these, is there one type that's better than the others (e.g. Plastic, Metallized - Stacked, Polyphenylene Sulphide (PPS), Polyester, Polyester, Metallized). Is there only one type I can use? I've emailed DBX, but I'm not holding out much hope that they'll have anything for me.

2. Lastly, here's my REALLY dumb question; according to this thread, I can/should replace the dual opamp. I see two IC's that are the same which I believe are the dual input amps located in OA3 and OA4. Is that correct? Do I replace them both?

Thanks a ton... and sorry for what's probably such a dumb question.
Old 17th February 2011 | Show parent
  #54
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by keastland ➡️
It appears that the DBX 163X I have is the one made in Hong Kong, so the board layout is a bit different than the schematic shows.

I ordered the 2180A for IC1 from Mouser.
- 2180AL08-U THAT Op Amps

I'm getting a couple different 1000uF capacitors from DigiKey for the C28 and C29 (ordering different units because they're different heights and I just want to make sure they fit... and WTH... they're cheap).
- Digi-Key Part Search
- Digi-Key Part Search

Here's my questions (one of them is most likely REALLY dumb):

1. I have two other capacitors that are bad/leaking. They're on C12 and C16. They only say 334J on the outside of them. Looking at the schematic, I can see that they're .33uF, but I can't find any other info on them. Entering 334J on DigiKey's search brings up a lot of options. First, are these particular caps stacked film capacitors? IF so, they range in volts from 50 all the way up to 630. Lastly, regarding these, is there one type that's better than the others (e.g. Plastic, Metallized - Stacked, Polyphenylene Sulphide (PPS), Polyester, Polyester, Metallized). Is there only one type I can use? I've emailed DBX, but I'm not holding out much hope that they'll have anything for me.

2. Lastly, here's my REALLY dumb question; according to this thread, I can/should replace the dual opamp. I see two IC's that are the same which I believe are the dual input amps located in OA3 and OA4. Is that correct? Do I replace them both?

Thanks a ton... and sorry for what's probably such a dumb question.
Bump...

I really need help with Question #1 above. I did find out that the voltage really isn't an issue, because no more than 20v goes through this compressor. So I have that aspect, I just don't know what kind of caps these are.

Thanks.
Old 17th February 2011 | Show parent
  #55
Registered User
 
Marshman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I don't have a schematic for this, do you know if they are in the signal path or not? Power supply?

Can you post a pic of the caps?

mm
Old 17th February 2011 | Show parent
  #56
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Shoot, I didn't bring it with me to work today. I'll have to get a pic tonight.

The schematic is located here though: dbx® Vintage downloads

Thanks.
Old 19th February 2011 | Show parent
  #57
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
pics of caps in C12 and C16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshman ➡️
I don't have a schematic for this, do you know if they are in the signal path or not? Power supply?

Can you post a pic of the caps?

mm
Here's a couple pics of the caps I was referring to in C12 and C16.





Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help get an answer.

Thank you.
Old 21st February 2011 | Show parent
  #58
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Bump... hoping someone can help me identify what type of cap's are in the pic's above.

Thanks.
Old 21st February 2011 | Show parent
  #59
Registered User
 
Marshman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I think the 334 should be a .33uf and the J = 5% tolorance

Those appear to be pretty standard non polorized poly caps.

ECQ-V1H334JL Panasonic Electronic Components Polyester Film Capacitors

Can't be totally sure though.

Hope this helps.


mm
Old 21st February 2011 | Show parent
  #60
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshman ➡️
I think the 334 should be a .33uf and the J = 5% tolorance

Those appear to be pretty standard non polorized poly caps.

ECQ-V1H334JL Panasonic Electronic Components Polyester Film Capacitors

Can't be totally sure though.

Hope this helps.


mm
Yeah, you're absolutely correct about the ".33uf and the J = 5% tolorance". I was wondering what kind of caps they are though. So you're saying Poly Film. That's what I was thinking... but then someone led me astray. I guess I'll just order a couple of those and hope they work.

Thanks!
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