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Man they sang out of tune back in the day too!
Old 26th May 2009 | Show parent
  #121
Lives for gear
 
vincentvangogo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by js1 ➡️
Where the autotune grousing comes from is that there are people today with careers that do not have talent. They have connections, they have looks, but vocal talent? In the old days, no career. We're not talking Britney, not Christina - they do have talent, and they don't need correction.

But I heard Jennifer Lopez without autotune. It sounded like Leonard Nimoy. Without autotune, she ends up on the next Golden Throats compilation. With autotune, she's #1.

js
Hey don't knock Spock!
YouTube - Leonard Nimoy's Ballad of Bilbo Baggins
Old 26th May 2009 | Show parent
  #122
Gear Guru
 
John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78 ➡️
It's not about pitch it's about character & the music & the delivery :D

Give me one modern day equivalent of :
-Billie Holiday
-Aretha Franklin
-Ray Charles
-Dusty Springfield
-Vera Lynn
-Louis Armstrong
-John & Paul
-Bo Diddley
-Chuck Berry
-Barry White
-James Brown
-Frank Zappa
-Captain Beefheart
-Arthur Lee
-David Byrne
-Devo
-Serge Gainsbourg
-Jacques Brel
-J.J Cale
-Johnny Cash
-Nina Simone
-Hendrix
.....
The list is endless, some of them very good vocalist, some less, but it's how they deliver it & how it fits the music that makes it great, and quite honestly, most people from back than are a bit more of a character than todays teeny heroes.

Tuning tuning, the thing is if you have somebody who can't sing and deliver or has nothing to say, it can get problematic, but if the singer is somebody who can project his voice and has a character that if he says something it speaks to you, and he's inventive and musical, the pitch usualy doesn't matter.

And it's not perfect pitching that makes things nice, it usually makes it more boring, it's the right use of tension, contrast timbre and pitch that makes things sound exciting.
The word is NUANCE - something sadly lacking in most of today's music. Autotune is a blight.
Old 26th May 2009 | Show parent
  #123
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78 ➡️
It's not about pitch it's about character & the music & the delivery :D

Give me one modern day equivalent of :
-Billie Holiday
-Aretha Franklin
-Ray Charles
-Dusty Springfield
-Vera Lynn
-Louis Armstrong
-John & Paul
-Bo Diddley
-Chuck Berry
-Barry White
-James Brown
-Frank Zappa
-Captain Beefheart
-Arthur Lee
-David Byrne
-Devo
-Serge Gainsbourg
-Jacques Brel
-J.J Cale
-Johnny Cash
-Nina Simone
-Hendrix
.....
The list is endless, some of them very good vocalist, some less, but it's how they deliver it & how it fits the music that makes it great, and quite honestly, most people from back than are a bit more of a character than todays teeny heroes.

Tuning tuning, the thing is if you have somebody who can't sing and deliver or has nothing to say, it can get problematic, but if the singer is somebody who can project his voice and has a character that if he says something it speaks to you, and he's inventive and musical, the pitch usualy doesn't matter.

And it's not perfect pitching that makes things nice, it usually makes it more boring, it's the right use of tension, contrast timbre and pitch that makes things sound exciting.
Great List !!!!!!!

Add to it, The Fifth Dimension which to my ears has some fantastic production on their tunes. The right vocals and the right use or in many cases lack of use of instruments. The Mama's and Papa's are similar in that their harmonies are deceptively simple sounding, but they are in reality carefully crafted and quite complex. Sadly the recording quality of most of their stuff is pretty awful, audio wise.

Some older off tune people are:

Dinah Shore (flat all the time).
Rolling Stones, especially Ruby Tuesday. I think that's their style though.
Tuesday makes my teeth chatter, I have perfect pitch.

Like the other person said, I feel lost in today's music.
Even jazz is getting awful as most of it sounds like elevator music.

One tune I recently heard on the radio was that Brittany Spears Amy song.
I had no idea who was singing, but darn if that isn't one hook filled song.
The scale the song is based upon is simple yet haunting and I really like the way it sounds. Couldn't get it out of my mind for a day or two.
Don't laugh at me
BTW I can't stand Spears, but that's one darn good tune.
It's supposed to sound over processed so i guess it's ok to cheat once in a while.

That's a rare one though. Most of the stuff on mainstream radio is garbage IMHO.
Old 26th May 2009 | Show parent
  #124
Lives for gear
 
junior's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd&4thT ➡️
Thirty years from now, couples will be sitting on the porch swing in the moonlight, listening to some potty-mouth rap about bitches and ho's, and murmer to each other, "Darling, they're playing our song!"
Maybe I'm getting old or something... but, man that's depressing!
Old 26th May 2009 | Show parent
  #125
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior ➡️
Maybe I'm getting old or something... but, man that's depressing!
Cuddle up with an oldie but goodie if you're feelin' romantic:

Old 26th May 2009 | Show parent
  #126
Lives for gear
 
junior's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 ➡️
Cuddle up with an oldie but goodie if you're feelin' romantic:
Or, maybe you'd like to cuddle up with this classic: heh



There's a BIG difference between using clever innuendo (Beatles) and being straight-up vulgar, no?
Old 26th May 2009 | Show parent
  #127
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior ➡️

There's a BIG difference between using clever innuendo (Beatles) and being straight-up vulgar, no?
"Why don't we do it in the road" is innuendo? You mean if they had said "why don't we f*ck in the road" that would be vulgar?

Vulgar songs have been around forever, old blues songs and ancient ribald stuff, drinking songs, rugby songs...maybe it seems more crass in some commercial songs but even the nice moptops predicted it, both in song and in interviews...

there are still plenty of corny love songs being written...

it just seems funny that people think things are "so much worse" now when the previous generation was all about drugs, sex, and rock n roll...
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #128
Lives for gear
 
junior's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 ➡️
"Why don't we do it in the road" is innuendo? You mean if they had said "why don't we f*ck in the road" that would be vulgar?
Yes, exactly. Innuendo means to hint or insinuate. On the other hand, vulgar can mean offensive in language or lewdly / profanely indecent. Sounds like you hit the nail on the head. heh
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #129
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior ➡️
Yes, exactly. Innuendo means to hint or insinuate. On the other hand, vulgar can mean offensive in language or lewdly / profanely indecent. Sounds like you hit the nail on the head. heh
Ah, well I see now why The Beatles song would be considered so romantic...a nice wedding ballad for hippies in love...
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #130
Lives for gear
 
junior's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
???
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #131
Gear Guru
 
John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior ➡️
Maybe I'm getting old or something... but, man that's depressing!
Nah, gangstas from da hood don't live that long......
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #132
Gear Guru
 
John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy ➡️
Great List !!!!!!!

Some older off tune people are:

Dinah Shore (flat all the time).
Rolling Stones, especially Ruby Tuesday. I think that's their style though.
Tuesday makes my teeth chatter, I have perfect pitch.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear some heavy VSOing on Ruby Tuesday. I'm pretty sure it was constructed from more than one take that were'nt quite in tune or at the same tempo as each other...... I think it was stuff like that that was responsible for them firing Andrew Loog Oldham as their manager/producer - wouldn't let them do the studio work needed to finish a lot of their songs.....

There are a couple of songs by The Animals that are like that as well..... Mickey Most.....
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #133
Gear Maniac
 
dodgeaspen's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I would rather have a singer do the best he could do then to mask his or her voice unless they sang like alfalfa from our gang.
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #134
Lives for gear
 
Old Goat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I think it takes more writing skill to skirt around the nasty, rather than come right out and say it. Witness old blues numbers like "Long John" and "Dust my Broom". Course, it takes more energy to think about the lyrics and get them...
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #135
Gear Guru
 
John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 ➡️
"Why don't we do it in the road" is innuendo? You mean if they had said "why don't we f*ck in the road" that would be vulgar?

Vulgar songs have been around forever, old blues songs and ancient ribald stuff, drinking songs, rugby songs...maybe it seems more crass in some commercial songs but even the nice moptops predicted it, both in song and in interviews...

there are still plenty of corny love songs being written...

it just seems funny that people think things are "so much worse" now when the previous generation was all about drugs, sex, and rock n roll...
"Squeeze my lemon till the juice runs down my leg" - Robert Johnson.
(Maybe you thought Led Zepplin wrote that? No way!)
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #136
Gear Guru
 
John Eppstein's Avatar
 
58 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 ➡️
"Why don't we do it in the road" is innuendo? You mean if they had said "why don't we f*ck in the road" that would be vulgar?

Vulgar songs have been around forever, old blues songs and ancient ribald stuff, drinking songs, rugby songs...maybe it seems more crass in some commercial songs but even the nice moptops predicted it, both in song and in interviews...

there are still plenty of corny love songs being written...

it just seems funny that people think things are "so much worse" now when the previous generation was all about drugs, sex, and rock n roll...
Yes, but not mysogeny and murder.
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #137
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
When it gets down to marketing a product, which is where the money is made or not, it is all about the look, sound, image and feel of the product.

Recording popular music for sale is manufacturing a product.
Autotune is a part of the process of manufacturing the poduct.

Autotune is no different than the use of trans fats in food manufacturing.
It allows food to be manufactured quickly and cheaply and it tastes good enough... that is if you are not too picky or sophisticated.

Big Macs are VERY popular.
McDonalds used to use lots of trans fats until the popular sentiment about trans fats made them appear bad in the public's mind.

Autotune = trans fats

One makes your shi*t slide through you easily and the other makes sh*t slide past your ears easily.
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #138
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein ➡️
Yes, but not mysogeny and murder.
You've got to be kidding...John Lennon sang "I'd rather see you dead little girl than to be with another man", which was a line he stole from an Elvis song...

Johnny Cash, old ballads about gunslingers...songs about dead wh*res...I could look em up but I'm too lazy and I'm getting sick of posting...
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #139
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
I have a Stones Biography on my bookshelf..althought I am too lazy to get up from my computer to go refernce it
BUT supposidly some tunes took a year to "get right", does that mean they were too coked up, juked up, infought amoungst themselves to complete the song/album in less time ? or where they seeking sonic nirvana pitch/sounds/riffs/ etc?
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #140
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitar ➡️
L.A.,
I'm sure the ratio of good singers to bad singers is about the same whatever era we're talking about.
No. Used to be, guys would practice their singing. Now they practice rapping. And you can say what you want about practicing rapping, but you got to admit it doesn't do much for your singing... if by singing you mean stuff like pitch. So the ratio of good singers to bad singers has gone down, because a lot of the potentially good singers don't try to sing any more. They're busy donig something else.
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #141
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman100 ➡️
I have a Stones Biography on my bookshelf..althought I am too lazy to get up from my computer to go refernce it
BUT supposidly some tunes took a year to "get right", does that mean they were too coked up, juked up, infought amoungst themselves to complete the song/album in less time ? or where they seeking sonic nirvana pitch/sounds/riffs/ etc?
Only partially. It also means that, while the Stones are fantastic when they're running on all eight cylinders musically, usually they're running on 5.. or 2..
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #142
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
I absolutely ****ing DETEST the autotune bull**** that's around these days. It's the absolute antithesis of the kind of work ethic I think goes in to making REAL music. And by real music I mean music that an intelligent, worldly, and creative person could admire. Not the cookie-cutter, formulaic dog**** they call music now (from the last 20 years) which is only appreciated by people without any clue as to how stupid it all is.

Fock Autotune and anything else like that. If you can't sing to begin with, what the fock are you doing making music? I bust my ass to make damn good music, so if someone else can't even be bothered to learn to sing properly, I don't want to hear their whiny **** music.

I honestly can't even fathom how someone could justify the use of such a trick and have any self-esteem or worth left in them. It's just shameful.
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #143
Lives for gear
 
vincentvangogo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 ➡️
You've got to be kidding...John Lennon sang "I'd rather see you dead little girl than to be with another man", which was a line he stole from an Elvis song...
..and which he later said he never felt comfortable about.
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #144
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo ➡️
..and which he later said he never felt comfortable about.
I don't think he thought much of the song...but I'm sure he wouldn't think it a good idea to censor anything...it's just a song, like a story or a movie...lots of people write about violence and sex and all kinds of crazy stuff...Randy Newman has written some bizarre stuff....why do people freak when it's rap or hip hop...but everywhere else, it's no biggie...?? Tell me there's no double standard...
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #145
Lives for gear
 
hollywood_steve's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
As someone old enough to remember when the White Album was released, I've still got to admit that "Smell Yo Dick" is some funny ****!

"Why don't we do it in the road" = 40 years of listening enjoyment

"Smell yo dick" = laughed so hard beer flew out my nose this evening. (just reading the title, never even listened to the clip....)

both provided entertainment in their own way.
Old 27th May 2009 | Show parent
  #146
Lives for gear
 
Phil Cibley's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye ➡️
.



...but that freeking guitar's out of tune...yikes...

.


They just did that so it would match the vocal.
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