Quantcast
Man they sang out of tune back in the day too! - Page 3 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Man they sang out of tune back in the day too!
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #61
Gear Guru
 
Sqye's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum ➑️
I think singers today are technically better and back in the day there was better artists .
.

i think many singers today technically sing way better out of tune than the ones that only used to think that they said they could almost always mostly sing out of tune, but way better.


you guys need to drop some acid, and steer this conversation off this same boring highway.
...bring in some freeway shooters, or sum'in...


i fully agree w/ james, tho - there are surely some 'cats stuck in a tree' recordings
from back in the day...although today's rnb autotune fest is MIGHTY annoying...

.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #62
Lives for gear
 
Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye ➑️
.

i think many singers today technically sing way better out of tune than the ones that only used to think that they said they could almost always mostly sing out of tune, but way better.

.
Funny Stuff... PMP That's new lingo for pissingmypants.

TW
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #63
Lives for gear
 
vernier's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
To set the record straight . . .

Dylan sings perfect.
It's all there in the recordings. Total control, voice and guitar.
Don't believe myths or spread them.
Study the recordings.


'
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #64
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye ➑️
.

i fully agree w/ james, tho - there are surely some 'cats stuck in a tree' recordings
from back in the day...
Yes, but for the most part, without the ability to "fix" them, those recordings didn't really make it.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #65
Gear Guru
 
Sqye's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vernier ➑️
Dylan sings perfect.
It's all there in the recordings. Total control, voice and guitar.
Don't believe myths or spread them.
Study the recordings.


'
.

yeah, great classic song, message, and all that...

...but that freeking guitar's out of tune...yikes...

.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #66
Gear Guru
 
Sqye's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great ➑️
Yes, but for the most part, without the ability to "fix" them, those recordings didn't really make it.
.

no, james' point is clear: many of them DID make it.

that's what he's bitching about...and i agree - it's painful to listen sometimes.
...like bad tape hiss...nothing charming about it...

damn, how did i get sukked into this. i'm going to go kill myself now.

.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #67
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye ➑️
.

yeah, great classic song, message, and all that...

...but that freeking guitar's out of tune...yikes...

.
Nah, that's nothing. You want out of tune acoustics, how about 'Band on the Run'?
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #68
Lives for gear
 
vincentvangogo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vernier ➑️
Dylan sings perfect.
It's all there in the recordings. Total control, voice and guitar.
Don't believe myths or spread them.
Study the recordings.

'
Sorry but check the chorus around 4.50 and tell me that's not a clunker.
YouTube - Bob Dylan - Mr. Tambourine Man
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #69
Gear Guru
 
Sqye's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo ➑️
Sorry but check the chorus around 4.50 and tell me that's not a clunker.
YouTube - Bob Dylan - Mr. Tambourine Man
.

love you sig., man - that's awesome.

.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #70
Lives for gear
 
vincentvangogo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye ➑️
.

love you sig., man - that's awesome.

.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #71
Moderator
 
James Lugo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye ➑️
.

damn, how did i get sukked into this. i'm going to go kill myself now.

.
I feel worse I started it.

Sorry guys I need a few days off GS, it's been a little rough for the moderator guy...
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #72
Gear Guru
Kurt Cobain sang really great in the 90s, I don't think pitch correction was being used at all.

I don't think Trent Reznor uses pitch correction, and I'm positive that Corey Taylor doesn't use pitch correction in Stone Sour, I think you guys need to stop listening to mainstream pop and dig deeper!
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #73
Lives for gear
 
Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Robert Johnson called..... was sayin something about wanting to drop over and autotune a couple parts before he has go down to the crossroads to meet someone...

TW
Old 30th January 2009
  #74
Lives for gear
 
JoeyM's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo ➑️
...I've spent the morning putting together a play list of songs for my wedding...
Congratulations! The very best!

(maybe a little pre-planning so this dosen't happen: YouTube - Super wedding singer )

Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #75
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Just replayed my 'Making of 'A Night At The Opera' DVD.

A person can learn a thing or two from Mercury, that's for sure. thumbsup
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #76
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
To be fair though, I've heard some live Queen stuff where the vocals were not really all that hot. But they were very good in the studio for sure. You can hear some stuff on the Classic Albums of NatO where Mercury is doing a set of backup vocals all by himself and it's pretty amazing.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #77
Lives for gear
 
Batchainpuller78's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great ➑️
Of course, there have always been people who could sing, and a lot more that couldn't. Diss Dylan and Young and anyone else you want, but they could not only hold a tune, but sounded like no one else. And captivated people. So many of the modern singers are so interchangeable, and so uninteresting, tuning or not. Most of these people never would have made it back in the time you had to sell a song with an actual vocal performance.

Even cheesy 80's stuff. I heard an old Night Ranger tune on the radio and he holds those notes out really long, and solid, and there is no autotune, he's actually singing.
That's exactly the point, nobody is dissing dylan or young, but these were characters that could do something, I think Bob Dylan would be many many times ahead in the lyric and language department than most of today's heroes that are launched upon us by the commercial networks.

and the delivery, I say it again, and these guys could reach to your sentiment.
Okay the analogy has been made that little kids today get thrilled by Brittany but I don't know if it's the same thing, One is real the other one is overly induced, although there probably also were Dylon buttons for sale in carnaby street.

I mean I live in Belgium, luckily i'm into music so I've got myself a collection of music form artists worldwide and from home, but what really annoys me is that when I put on Radio, or any of the music TV stations it only seems that there are 10 artists in the world, 5 of them rappers... pfff.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #78
Lives for gear
 
vernier's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Obviously some people don't get Neil Young. The thing is, he puts each note where he wants it. What you hear is exactly what he intended. It's not the same as singers who are unable to keep pitch. Two different things entirely.
'
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #79
Lives for gear
 
Batchainpuller78's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Sure, but some people would apply autotune for when he reaches the higher notes these days robbing it from the character and the delivery.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #80
Gear Guru
 
Sqye's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
.

i wouldn't use auto-tune on neil young,

...as much as i would use auto-catstuckinatree...

.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #81
Lives for gear
 
Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vernier ➑️
Obviously some people don't get Neil Young. The thing is, he puts each note where he wants it. What you hear is exactly what he intended. It's not the same as singers who are unable to keep pitch. Two different things entirely.
'
I don't think anybody's dissing Dylan or Young here. I think what is being said is that there are artist who sing consistently flat or start the notes flat and slide into the note and that is great. I think autotune would have basterdized these artist. That's their style. That's what we love about those artist.

TW
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #82
Lives for gear
 
steelyfan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78 ➑️
It's not about pitch it's about character & the music & the delivery :D

Give me one modern day equivalent of :
-Billie Holiday
-Aretha Franklin
-Ray Charles
-Dusty Springfield
-Vera Lynn
-Louis Armstrong
-John & Paul
-Bo Diddley
-Chuck Berry
-Barry White
-James Brown
-Frank Zappa
-Captain Beefheart
-Arthur Lee
-David Byrne
-Devo
-Serge Gainsbourg
-Jacques Brel
-J.J Cale
-Johnny Cash
-Nina Simone
-Hendrix
.....
The list is endless, some of them very good vocalist, some less, but it's how they deliver it & how it fits the music that makes it great, and quite honestly, most people from back than are a bit more of a character than todays teeny heroes.

Tuning tuning, the thing is if you have somebody who can't sing and deliver or has nothing to say, it can get problematic, but if the singer is somebody who can project his voice and has a character that if he says something it speaks to you, and he's inventive and musical, the pitch usualy doesn't matter.

And it's not perfect pitching that makes things nice, it usually makes it more boring, it's the right use of tension, contrast timbre and pitch that makes things sound exciting.
Beautifully spoken. Prepare to feel like an outcast in todays music world.
I've stopped using my studio as a business because off all the people that
I/ve had to meet that will never understand this, who have wasted my time and patience , and taste.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #83
Lives for gear
 
steelyfan's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitar ➑️
L.A.,
I'm sure the ratio of good singers to bad singers is about the same whatever era we're talking about. But think about about many of the great vocal performances that don't have auto tune. I think it's the pitch variations that make it MORE soulful.

It used to be about let's find somebody who can DELIVER the song with feeling. Nowadays it's about let's find somebody who looks good and try to infuse the feeling in their ?VOCAL? with autotune, effects, or whatever. I think it's all the imperfections that make it real and MORE human. That's something that I can feel. I can't stand the sound of a vocal that cries out autotune.

I wan't to hear a great singer singing great songs whatever the era.
WORD.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #84
Gear Guru
 
theblue1's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering ➑️
Robert Johnson called..... was sayin something about wanting to drop over and autotune a couple parts before he has go down to the crossroads to meet someone...

TW
I've met the Devil and he's... binary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo ➑️
I feel worse I started it.

Sorry guys I need a few days off GS, it's been a little rough for the moderator guy...
James, I missed my chance to ask you how you, as a vocal coach, approach the equal temperament vs just intonation dilemma -- if you come back into this thread (and have the energy) I'd be interested in your perspective and what you tell your clients about fitting true intervals into the permanently-out-of-tune-by-design equal temperament system.

(To those of you unfamiliar with the issue -- and that appears to be a huge number of people including many formally trained musicians -- I'm not slagging our contemporary 12 tone equal temperament system [12TET] -- it makes modulation between keys -- and hence, modern music as we understand it -- possible. But it does involve serious harmonic compromises that have very definite implications for singers, who must decide whether to sing intervals that are harmonically correct and sound more pure (when considered away from ET-tuned instruments) or to conform to ET-tuned instruments like keyboards and guitars and sing the somewhat out of tune ET intervals. Of course, there are implications for others as well. Any keyboardist who has ever accompanied truly sophisticated singers or ensembles knows that he or she will probably have to avoid stepping on their pitch choices by intelligently shaping his parts.)

[And, of course, it goes without saying that the familiar note grid in most voice re-tuners is equal temp. That said, there's nothing to stop a careful vocal editor from re-pitching vocals with some sensitivity to just intervals. Interesting can of worms, all 'round.]



[PS... no one should go to my music looking for manifestations of such sophisticated concerns... I'm afraid I'm trapped in your Dylan/Jagger vocal thang... And my guitar always seems to be a bit out of tune. heh ]
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #85
Lives for gear
 
taturana's Avatar
 
12 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering ➑️
Robert Johnson called..... was sayin something about wanting to drop over and autotune a couple parts before he has go down to the crossroads to meet someone...

TW
i was thinking about that...

i think my favorite very in-tune singer (and i am not joking) would be muddy waters.

the king of blues is also the king of temperament. commas and all.


and i will go to great lengths to not autotune or melodyne anything coming out of my studio unless it's absolutely necessary and retracking has proven unsuccessful..

so much important emotional content is carried through by the correct adjustment of the notes to what's being sung... and the human variations of it. the autotuned version will miss that quite a lot.

i say be brave and be pitchy!
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #86
Lives for gear
 
taturana's Avatar
 
12 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 ➑️
I've met the Devil and he's... binary.
heh
Joseph Campbell used to compare the computer to an old testament god. with fatal errors and merciless logic.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #87
Gear Guru
 
theblue1's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Well... I have a kind of Taoist orientation... transcendence, union of opposites, and all that... sort of a 'leave behind the absolutist ideas of childhood' kinda thang...

One of the best things about this board is that I don't have to go off-site for the appropriate icon.





PS... Muddy Waters, Pythagorean commas, et al... I say if you have sufficient artistic authority, you will bend the harmonic context around your voice. Like a black hole bends the time-space continuum... We'll call that, TK Major's First Law of Harmonic Relativity...

heh
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #88
Lives for gear
 
Digitar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitar ➑️
"When you buy a new hammer, every thing starts to look like a nail".- The Blue 1
Hey, they paid all that money for autotune so they have to use it. heh
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #89
Gear Guru
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
There modern artists of course, and ones who are very much making highly popular, mass market music, who are very good. Alanis Morrisette comes to mind. She has incredible pipes and can deliver it live. Jagged Little Pill Live makes my big toe shoot up into my boot.

Sia is a more recent one. Check some of these videos from a live studio performance:

YouTube - Sia - Day Too Soon (KCRW 2007)

This one and the other related ones. She has an incredible voice. Or Joan Osborne who has awesome pipes.

Or Fiona Apple. She would have trouble sometimes live because she was doing pretty adventurous stuff for popular music, and it was probably pretty difficult to deliver live. But a great voice.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #90
Lives for gear
 
vernier's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering ➑️
I don't think anybody dissing Dylan or Young here. I think what is being said is that there are artist who sing consistently flat or start the notes flat and slide into the note and that is great. I think autotune would have basterdized these artist. That's their style. That's what we love about those artist.

TW
Yep, I agree.
'
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 295 views: 73842
Avatar for anguswoodhead
anguswoodhead 26th March 2013
replies: 15929 views: 1532164
Avatar for Ragan
Ragan 11th January 2019
replies: 1296 views: 181079
Avatar for heraldo_jones
heraldo_jones 1st February 2016
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump