Quantcast
Mixosaurus Drums (any need for good mics, pre's, room?) - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Mixosaurus Drums (any need for good mics, pre's, room?)
Old 26th January 2009
  #1
Lives for gear
 
BrandRecordingCo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Mixosaurus Drums (any need for good mics, pre's, room?)

Ok, obviously there is still an art to recording your own sounds and I'm not saying drum replacement is the way to go...the reason I am posting this is I am wondering if someone who is trying to invest in some gear (such as myself) and who doesn't have great converters, mics, pre's, or a good sounding room for drums, will Mixosaurus drums bypass needing all this gear and a good room to get good/decent drums at least for now?

Here is my situation. I have an M-audio fw 1814 interface, a Behringer ADA 8000 (ugh..), and some nady, shure, akg mics. So as you can see, not a great setup for drums. I do not have a good sounding room to record them in right now either. I'm just starting to build my gear list, and it will take awhile, and lots of money, before I get to where I want to be.

So, could I throw up some of my cheaper mics, pre's, etc...record drums in any room, and then use Mixosaurus to make the drums sound better? Or do the mics, converters and pre's still matter or make a difference in the sound even when replacing drums? Obviously they do if you are mixing your sounds with the Mixosaurus kit, but if I just fully replace them, I am guessing all the gear I have would not matter?

...This is not how I want to work forever, but for now it would allow me to get decent drum sounds and practice my recording/mixing techniques while having a back up to fall on. I would still try to get decent sounding drums on my own for practice, but it would be cool to have a back up such as Mixosaurus drums until I get a good room and gear.

MIXOSAURUS | Expert Virtual Drums for DAW Music Production | Berlin, Germany

Thanks!

Seth
Old 26th January 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
BrandRecordingCo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Can Mixosaurus even be used to replace a real kit, or is it only for use with MIDI? Can't seem to find a for sure answer.
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Moderator
 
psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
any well used drum replacement method will make the drums sound BETTER.

It's unlikely to ever sound as good as well recorded drums in the first place - overheads are a very difficult thing to fake for starters. and if you're going down the route of reprogramming cymbals etc, you may as well just program the kit from scratch - there'll be so little live sound left. Or get an electronic kit and use that to trigger the drums.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
BrandRecordingCo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Hey Phsyco Monkey...thanks for the reply. I do understand that recording real drums would be much cooler and is the way I would rather do it. However, right now it is hard for me to do that. I am just looking for a good alternative for now to get good realistic drum sounds. I do also have an electric kit that I could use to trigger the sounds of Mixosaurus, but I am more interested in being able to use Mixosaurus with a real kit. The reason for this is if I am recording other local bands, I don't want to force them to use my electric kit and would rather mic up their drums, then mix in my home and be able to replace the sounds. I'm not quite sure Mixosaurus will do this however...
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
peeweedrummer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
just use your best signal chain on your o/h's and worst on kik and snare because you can easily replace the sounds on the kik and snare and mix it with the good o/h sound.

as for room acoustics, there are plenty of cheap ways of improving the sound of your room. if the room is too bright hang some thick blankets around, if its too dead get some things with refletive surfaces in there. for a bass trap get a couch and put it at the back of the room, cut a hole in the fabric underneath it and stuff it tight with old blankets and stuff. or spend $500 on some 4-1 timber 703 insulation and fabric and build some very effective bass traps(worked wonders for me).
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
BrandRecordingCo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks for the responses. I'm wondering, is it possible to use drumagog with Mixosaurus? That would be cool...
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
el cochino's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by $uper$tar ➑️
Hey Phsyco Monkey...thanks for the reply. I do understand that recording real drums would be much cooler and is the way I would rather do it. However, right now it is hard for me to do that. I am just looking for a good alternative for now to get good realistic drum sounds. I do also have an electric kit that I could use to trigger the sounds of Mixosaurus, but I am more interested in being able to use Mixosaurus with a real kit. The reason for this is if I am recording other local bands, I don't want to force them to use my electric kit and would rather mic up their drums, then mix in my home and be able to replace the sounds. I'm not quite sure Mixosaurus will do this however...
Mixosaurus is a virtual instrument based on the NI Kontakt technology, and not just a sample collection. So the answer is no, but there's a workaround if you convert your audio to midi and trigger Mixosaurus with it. Drumtracker from Toontracks will do that, and it's probably not a bad idea to record the signal of cheap trigger mics, as well. That will make triggering much easier and accurate, since these mics won't pic up much bleed from other drums.

However, if you want to use Mixosaurus' cymbals and hats, too, you'll pretty much have to use your electronic drumkit.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Head
 
Mixosaurus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by el cochino ➑️
However, if you want to use Mixosaurus' cymbals and hats, too, you'll pretty much have to use your electronic drumkit.
Indeed, this will yield the best results. #2 would be programming from scratch (or using our HH/Ride Cymbal MIDI tracks or some from various sources), and the "replacement" method will probably sound weakest.

The reason is that it is virtually impossible to trigger subtleties from a recorded drum track unless you have recorded every single drum/cymbal with close mics (and even then, I doubt it'll work without some VERY tedious editing and adjusting). You can't easily trigger soft cymbal hits from overhead tracks carrying loud snare hits or vice versa, and it's these subtleties that make the realism, even in straight-forward rock drumming (OK, you could replace the main hits and add subtleties manually...ouch).

What's also difficult is the phase relation/alignment of sounds/tracks that is needed to have a consistent sound. Drums are multitracked and it is crucial that the phase relation of the tracks stays intact. Now - if you add some more audio to it (that of the original, recorded drums in case of a non-100% replacement) then you need to make sure that the samples trigger in perfect, steady sync to the original audio, otherwise there will be varying phase cancellations/additions with each hit, resulting in e.g. ever-changing kick and snare sounds. Of course this depends on the exact mix of original/triggered sounds (10/90 will probably work, 50/50 likely won't) and on the control/steadiness of the recorded drummer, but I wouldn't recommend the "replacement" approach in general.

Regards,
Uwe

PS to clarify: My scepticism is fed mainly by the vision of a "poor sounding" original drum track - replacing all of it 100% won't work for the abovementioned reasons, but keeping poor sounding audio in the mix isn't the best of options either.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Uwe,

How well is the E-drum set up working with Mixosaurus.?
I am using Superior 2.0/Sup.C&V/ Ezdrummer.
I have a hard time with the hi hat the most. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.
But, I don't feel it comes close to the demo they showed.
I have the TDW-20 and various Roland pads,vh-12 and a Hart snare.

I listened to your sample on line(the live edrum) but,it's too busy. Why not show it playing it live to music and soloed. Via the v-kit?

Getting them to play on the V kit is the biggest thing. I am tired of forking out the cash when the product doesn't quite deliver as well as companies say they do. So, don't hype it to me give it to me straight! Pretty please.

Thanks!
Trevor
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevort ➑️
Getting them to play on the V kit is the biggest thing. I am tired of forking out the cash when the product doesn't quite deliver as well as companies say they do.
I think the answer is tweak, tweak, and tweak again.
I'm pretty sure Toontrack aren't trying to cheat you.
The answer is they've been using the same e-pad and brain set up for a couple of years now (TD20 and Hart). They use it almost daily. Also, the drummer in the video (Nir-Z) is an experienced and regular e-drum user.
I'm sure he's tweaked the set up a lot.
Have you tried altering your playing style slightly?
I don't think it's possible to play e-drums exactly the same way you play acoustic drums and expect perfect results.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Head
 
Mixosaurus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevort ➑️
Getting them to play on the V kit is the biggest thing. I am tired of forking out the cash when the product doesn't quite deliver as well as companies say they do. So, don't hype it to me give it to me straight! Pretty please.
Yep, I should've shot that with a video cam - you're not the first one asking for it, so that's my dumb mistake indeed. I'll be taping (not really) some live-drumming at our booth at Musikmesse at the latest, not sure if I manage to do it earlier.

A few questions though regrding the inconsitencies of your gear's MIDI performance:
- have you ever tried to use a Roland pad instead of the Hart? Does it make a difference?
- have you tried adjusting the HiHat's sensitivity parameters?
- what exactly does "sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't" mean?

kindest regards,
Uwe
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixosaurus ➑️
Yep, I should've shot that with a video cam - you're not the first one asking for it, so that's my dumb mistake indeed. I'll be taping (not really) some live-drumming at our booth at Musikmesse at the latest, not sure if I manage to do it earlier.

A few questions though regrding the inconsitencies of your gear's MIDI performance:
- have you ever tried to use a Roland pad instead of the Hart? Does it make a difference?
- have you tried adjusting the HiHat's sensitivity parameters?
- what exactly does "sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't" mean?

kindest regards,
Uwe
-The only pad that isn't Roland is the Hart snare 13"
-They recommend adjusting this in the Superior sets not in the Roland
I've tried to do everything they tell you to set it up manually(program all the hits on the hats.
- Sometimes it works on certain kits but, you have to be careful with your hits they tend to slightly open the hats when you try to play tight closed.It only works with the presets I've gotten from others.

-I've tried to reset(program the hi hat is sup.2.0 and I can't get it to work right. I've used some preset midi settings from others including Superior's
which was a (general) midi preset from tech support forum.
and they work to an extent but,once again not happy with the hats. I can't get the cymbal mutes to work right when I try to program them either.
I follow instruction from users and get terrible results.

I'm kind of getting frustrated with the whole thing. I wish I had a great room so I could just mic up a kit and be done with it. But,I am a guitar player singer turned drummer because I hate programming drums and I don't like the sound/feel of the drum machine stuff. I did one cd playing and recording drums in my converted garage. No control room so very difficult
and time consuming to get a good sound. My time is limited now that I have a child so, hence the Vdrum idea.Looks good on paper but, Not totally convinced yet.

So, I'll take any recommendation's at this point. Sorry to steal the thread like that.

Thanks!
Trevor
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Trevor,
I have no doubt the clunky nature of e-drums is raining on your parade.
It's not your fault.
I think one factor is the v drum manufacturers aren't collaborating with the software drum sampler people too closely. They are kind of in competition.
People like Roland and Yamaha want you to use their drum brains and not BFD, Mixosaurus etc....

Quote:
Originally Posted by trevort ➑️
-I am a guitar player singer turned drummer
And that's another thing I'm afraid.
I think e-drumming is a little different from regular drumming.
I've been an acoustic drummer for more than 30 years and I find e-drums very hard to play. In order to get the most realistic results, some of the required techniques are counter intuitive.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Actually, with the TDW-20 the playabuility isn't half bad. It starts to get
if'y when I use the sampled kits in the software. If I could get the sound of the sampled stuff with the closeness and control of the TDW-20 I'd
be a happy camper. But, like you said they are competing.
Although, the new 2box looks like a step in the right direction.
If you aren't familiar with it, look it up. it allows you to add sampled
sounds from the likes of BFD. At this point though, we'll have to wait and see as they haven't released it yet.

But, thanks for your input!
Waiting for Uwe to chime in with any answers as to how his compares or works with Vdrums.

Trevor
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
el cochino's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevort ➑️
Actually, with the TDW-20 the playabuility isn't half bad. It starts to get
if'y when I use the sampled kits in the software. If I could get the sound of the sampled stuff with the closeness and control of the TDW-20 I'd
be a happy camper. But, like you said they are competing.
Although, the new 2box looks like a step in the right direction.
If you aren't familiar with it, look it up. it allows you to add sampled
sounds from the likes of BFD. At this point though, we'll have to wait and see as they haven't released it yet.

But, thanks for your input!
Waiting for Uwe to chime in with any answers as to how his compares or works with Vdrums.

Trevor
I have a Ddrum4 set, which was made by the same people who created the 2box, and I couldn't be happier. It works great with DFHS and I'm expecting the 2box is at least just as good. Anyway, setting up the the trigger module takes some time and tweaking, plus you pretty much have to do it for every drummer individually. The trigger sensitivity is super fast and precise, but you still have to edit the midi tracks to get the best results.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Head
 
Mixosaurus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I've modeled the MIXOSAURUS MIDI Translations to follow the TD-20 (TD-10, TD-3) MIDI output as closely as possible, and I'm confident to say that it will work out of the box with VERY little tweaking necessary. If your TD-20 feels good and reacts well on your playing, so will MIXOSAURUS. The only exception would be the cymbal mutes which aren't supported (programming them later as you described will work flawlessly).

Chris is right though - an edrum is not an acoustic kit. Nobody would expect to be able to play an electric guitar exactly like an acoustic one, and nobody would expect this from grand piano<->non-weighted keyboards. So yes, it takes some drumming skills to be able to adjust your playing to the pads and to the way the edrum brain reacts. But if I understand you correctly, then that's what you have already achieved - the TD-20 is fine, but the samples aren't.

I invite you to email me a piece of MIDI from your TD-20's MIDI output. I'll run it through the default KIT A MIDI Translation for the TD-20 and send you an mp3 (there's a thread in the MIXO Support Forum where I did exactly this for another potential user).

best,
uwe
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
uwe,


Thanks a bunch. I will send you a midi file as soon as I can.

We'll see what happens.

Trevor
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixosaurus ➑️

I invite you to email me a piece of MIDI from your TD-20's MIDI output. I'll run it through the default KIT A MIDI Translation for the TD-20 and send you an mp3 (there's a thread in the MIXO Support Forum where I did exactly this for another potential user).

best,
uwe
I've sent you a midi file to your support mail.

Trevor
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #19
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Since Uwe is in the business of selling Mixosaurus, you may feel his answers would be biased, so I'll chime in. I have had Mixosaurus for probably pushing a year maybe? I have a set of Roland TD 20s. This set up works great. The drums trigger the samples just fine. I've gone back and forth between my v drums and my Korg padkontrol and it just sounds (because I'm actually playing drums) more realistic to use V drums. If you can play the v drums well, you'll get a great response out of the Mixosaurus. I've raved about them to everyone, they are so realistic. They really sound amazing, so its well worth your money. Can't wait for Kit B Uwe!

AM
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMMusic ➑️
Since Uwe is in the business of selling Mixosaurus, you may feel his answers would be biased, so I'll chime in. I have had Mixosaurus for probably pushing a year maybe? I have a set of Roland TD 20s. This set up works great. The drums trigger the samples just fine. I've gone back and forth between my v drums and my Korg padkontrol and it just sounds (because I'm actually playing drums) more realistic to use V drums. If you can play the v drums well, you'll get a great response out of the Mixosaurus. I've raved about them to everyone, they are so realistic. They really sound amazing, so its well worth your money. Can't wait for Kit B Uwe!

AM
Am (not to be confused with FM) (Ha Ha... he He...) Just kidding!,

Thanks much for the insight. I appreciate the help.
I can see Uwe being very honest and I know he wants to make a buck too!
But, who the hell doesn't? I'm sure he is biased. But, possibly for good reason.
Nothing wrong with that kind of belief and passion. So, I can't wait to hear the sample from him!

Trevor
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #21
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevort ➑️
Am (not to be confused with FM) (Ha Ha... he He...) Just kidding!,

Thanks much for the insight. I appreciate the help.
I can see Uwe being very honest and I know he wants to make a buck too!
But, who the hell doesn't? I'm sure he is biased. But, possibly for good reason.
Nothing wrong with that kind of belief and passion. So, I can't wait to hear the sample from him!

Trevor
Sorry, maybe I came across wrong. I wasn't trying to say that Uwe wouldn't be honest. I was mainly trying to give the opinion of a user that has no financial ties to the product. Of course he wants to sell a product, I just came across wrong.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMMusic ➑️
Sorry, maybe I came across wrong. I wasn't trying to say that Uwe wouldn't be honest. I was mainly trying to give the opinion of a user that has no financial ties to the product. Of course he wants to sell a product, I just came across wrong.
No, I'm sorry, I came across wrong...
You made a lot of good points.
I do think he is honest. And wanting to make money on something you
love to do is of no sin, especially if you love what you do.
This is what I'm trying to say more or less in response.
I wasn't thinking he was dishonest or motivated only by greed.

Thanks!
Trevor
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I just received some samples of the Kit A from Uwe.
Really nice of him spend time on it.
The midi file I sent over wasn't anything to speak of and has some flaws in it.
I think it translated pretty well. They sound very solid to me. I like the superior drums I use also but, I think these have a bit more punch.
If I can get these to work well with my Vdrums then I think it's a winner for me.
I hope to possibly get in the very near future. Can't wait to hear the new Kit B too!

Thanks Uwe!

Trevor
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Addict
 
ORGANIK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
my 3 cents

whats up.

ok...my gear is very simple some good stuff but crap mics.
apogee ensamble,Logic 8,presonus fs, dbx 386 tube pre,and a lonley api 512c. i record the drums in a small room, actually in the same room as all my gear LOL. so i mick up everything as best as i can with an old cad mic drum pack etc. get the best sounds i can....
wind up sounding good but very thin and kinda boxey because the room and poopy mic's.....
I then use the audio to score functionin logic for the kick and snare....
and use any midi instrument you want to add a nice kik and snare ...
i then buss those out on 2 busses with the orig kick and snare blend em nice compress etc.. and add to taste....
it def makes a huge differnce while retaining the performance feel and sound of the orig
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Ya, I was using live drums too. I don't care much for the sound of replacement or adding on a lot. I've tried it. There are things you can do in the virtual world that I can't do when live mic-ing a kit.

If I don't like the tempo of the song where it's going I can change that.
and because I am recording a midi track I can use any sound or sample I want.
This is useful when you are recording everything yourself, it's hard to make those final decisions before hand. This way I can change things up if I feel
I need to.

Also to note:It's hard to beat drums recorded in a great room,with great equipment and engineers.

Trevor
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 5883 views: 1882451
Avatar for nobtwiddler
nobtwiddler 2 days ago
replies: 120 views: 29114
Avatar for Mixosaurus
Mixosaurus 3rd May 2011
replies: 78 views: 29277
Avatar for OolalavSuperfukk
OolalavSuperfukk 27th February 2013
replies: 59 views: 1741
Avatar for themiracle
themiracle 10th August 2020
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump