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Yes you can mix with plug ins
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #241
Deleted 99dc753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronos147 ➡️
I paid more for my Waves Renaissance TDM than I did for my current console. I could do without the Waves now, I would not say the same of the console.
So as TDM is 1.2 K in dollars.
I would like to see how you do compression with the console without the bundle.

Come on Guys I have the Waves SSL Bundle and the EQs are superior compared to any console in the range 1-2 k so every coin has two sides.

And please thread DIE NOW DIE....
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #242
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 ➡️
You would think...and yet very little good has come out of digital.
That's a pretty profound (and arbitrary) statement to make without any supporting evidence (or at least give us some examples of why you think that)

You are saying only a handful of "worthy" tracks have been released that use digital audio??
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #243
Gear Head
 
CJdeVillar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 ➡️
Is it?

I was sort of trying to put it aside and look at the reality of it.

I tell you what...you name 10 great digital albums, and I'll name 10 analog albums, and we'll take a vote as to which 10 are better.


I see, you get the beatles, count basie, neil young, miles davis, led zepplin, yada yada.

Please dude. You tried to put it aside... i guess.

best album? vote? ....Not a good retort.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #244
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithcok ➡️

You are saying only a handful of "worthy" tracks have been released that use digital audio??
I'm not even sure there's one.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #245
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo ➡️
better == sonically superior, right?
So, this is not a contest about the tunage, but the AE work, right?

I'm intrigued...
The tunage, the recording, the whole deal...for whatever reason, way more lasting or "important" music that sounds good (however you define "sonically superior") came out of analog, even in the comparatively primitive state that it was in for most of it's existence...is it the people or the format or both...I dunno...I'm just saying that that's the facts of how it's gone down...

correct me with the avalanche of ground breaking life changing recordings in all digital...what are they?
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #246
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 ➡️
I'm not even sure there's one.
I think Rush's Signals was an all digital affair. Always sounded pretty good to me. That's going back a ways though - don't think they used many plugins
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #247
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 ➡️
I'm not even sure there's one.
Stop being so goddam lazy. There's a ton. Here's a few that stand up with anything recorded in the history of popular music.

Talk Talk - "Spirit of Eden"
Tortoise - "TNT"
Bjork - "Vespertine"
Autechre - "Confield"
Eno/Byrne - "Everything that happens will happen today"

The point being, if you're gonna use digital, use it to its strengths. Sticking on 1001 "analog sim" plugs to recreate the sound of Led Zeppelin is not one of them.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #248
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 ➡️
The tunage, the recording, the whole deal...for whatever reason, way more lasting or "important" music that sounds good (however you define "sonically superior") came out of analog, even in the comparatively primitive state that it was in for most of it's existence...is it the people or the format or both...I dunno...I'm just saying that that's the facts of how it's gone down...

correct me with the avalanche of ground breaking life changing recordings in all digital...what are they?
There is no such thing, analog or digital. What was recorded might be those things but how it was recorded and on what platform is totally irrelevant. Not to mention Analog has at least 4-5 decades of a head start.

However, I'll play. Most releases on the GRP label were awfully damn good and were pretty much all DDD. If we are going to confuse what they sound like with what you happen to like musically this is a pointless argument. Unfortunately it seems pretty clear that is whats happening.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #249
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by basho ➡️
Stop being so goddam lazy.
Why are so many replies so rude. This is only a pointless thread. Stop being so goddamn rude.

Quote:
There's a ton. Here's a few that stand up with anything recorded in the history of popular music.

Talk Talk - "Spirit of Eden"
Tortoise - "TNT"
Bjork - "Vespertine"
Autechre - "Confield"
Eno/Byrne - "Everything that happens will happen today"
Okay, that's five. I stand corrected.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #250
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect ➡️
There is no such thing, analog or digital. What was recorded might be those things but how it was recorded and on what platform is totally irrelevant.
Totally irrelevant? I don't think so.

Quote:
Not to mention Analog has at least 4-5 decades of a head start.
Digital has an incredible advantage over analog...not only all that was learned prior, all the outboard and tracking techniques, tuning and perfecting...analog was incredibly primitive even in the 60s and 70s...they were just graduating from 4 tracks for godsakes, stereo was relatively new, having to bounce, tape hiss, using razor blades to edit!...even at 8, 16 or 24, an incredible disadvantage.

Quote:
If we are going to confuse what they sound like with what you happen to like musically this is a pointless argument. Unfortunately it seems pretty clear that is whats happening.
The sound and the music go hand in hand...I agree it's pointless though.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #251
Lives for gear
 
gussyg2007's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 ➡️
Why are so many replies so rude. This is only a pointless thread. Stop being so goddamn rude.



Okay, that's five. I stand corrected.
and the rest!!! in 20 years time there will only be digital recordings , strikes me if the otb boys here had there way we would all be riding around on a horse and cart!!!face facts dude don't be a luddite
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #252
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gussyg2007 ➡️
and the rest!!! in 20 years time there will only be digital recordings ,face facts dude don't be a luddite
Yes, lots of digital recordings...digital TV, digital movies, digital everything....that doesn't make it good....it just makes it digital.

Whatever, I made the point and I'm sticking to it...it doesn't matter, I don't know why it seems to bother people.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #253
Lives for gear
 
gussyg2007's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 ➡️
...it doesn't matter, I don't know why it seems to bother people.
no it seems to bother you that the world is moving into it's next phase ,the stone age, the irone age ,the bronze age, the industrial revolution , the digital revolution,nobody can stop the march of time
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #254
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gussyg2007 ➡️
no it seems to bother you that the world is moving into it's next phase ,the stone age, the irone age ,the bronze age, the industrial revolution , the digital revolution,nobody can stop the march of time
Where did I say it bothers me? What makes you think I don't use all these tools that 90% or more on these boards use...(and, btw, I think the "next phase" has been here for quite awhile already)...

I'm simply facing the facts of the results over the course of music and modern recording. Maybe it will change in the next decade and everyone can calm down.

I'm not telling anyone to not use digital. Use whatever you want. You guys are the ones being pushy and saying get with the program and don't be a Luddite. I'm saying nothing of the sort.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #255
Lives for gear
 
RCM - Ronan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gussyg2007 ➡️
, strikes me if the otb boys here had there way we would all be riding around on a horse and cart!!!face facts dude don't be a luddite
What on earth makes you think that? I did my first ITB box 15 years ago. I did my last one a few months ago. I find the results of mixing on analog consoles sonically superior to mixing inside of a computer. This is an opinion that the overwhelming majority of high end mixers in rock and guitar based pop share. What is the problem?
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #256
Gear Addict
 
van Overhalen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5down1up ➡️
> those are all phrases, which occur to be right. they say nothing about how far it can or cant go.
Well at least you say that they occur to be right !

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5down1up ➡️
>> thats the last thing imo you cant expect from itb
There you go again...
Why the hell should this not happen if the bloody tracks contain well performed and stellar recorded performances ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5down1up ➡️
>>> you always need an official permission for every word being said ?
Aha, now down the personal route ?

Do you always hide behind some anonymous "master" when you're running short of arguments ?
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #257
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm ➡️
This is an opinion that the overwhelming majority of high end mixers in rock and guitar based pop share. What is the problem?
The problem is that while it may be the case they prefer OTB, it is NOT evidence that it has any sonic advantage. People are creatures of habit and frankly, ones ears are about the worst tool for a truly "scientific" analysis. If they prefer OTB, great. They do great work. That is not evidence of sonic superiority. Its evidence of personal preference.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #258
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
I know that I myself is by far the most limiting factor for the recordings I make. Still I'm very thankful for the great possibilities that digital reciording is offering for hobby level musicians and studios. The sound quality of a lot ”demos” (or just unreleased recordings) today is often at least as good as a lot of commercial released albums in the time before the digital-home/demo/semi-pro studio explosion. Yes, there is a lot more crap now than ever before but there is also loads of great music and recordings as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm ➡️
I find the results of mixing on analog consoles sonically superior to mixing inside of a computer. This is an opinion that the overwhelming majority of high end mixers in rock and guitar based pop share.



What I’m wondering (just out of curiosity so I guess it’s semi-OT) is what you, or anyone else, feel is the biggest improvement of (high end) analog gear in the last 10, 20 or 30 years? Personally I don’t know and I don’t think I’ve noticed them as a listener (except for a improvement in consumer level gear). Great recordings were made decades ago, so even if analog gear were far from perfect then it was still good enough for me. I guess this don’t apply to all music genres but at least to kind of normal rock (guitar based) music.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #259
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by van Overhalen ➡️
Aha, now down the personal route ?

Do you always hide behind some anonymous "master" when you're running short of arguments ?
hrhr, come on man, i have blood on my fingers already, ... from typing

aint nothing personal at all, ... fu**** germans
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #260
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by van Overhalen ➡️
There you go again...
Why the hell should this not happen if the bloody tracks contain well performed and stellar recorded performances ?

Because it doesnt happen for me. If i work that way, the mixdown sounds like a lush piece of cake. Would you mind removing that curtain in front of the speakers ?

Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #261
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect ➡️
People are creatures of habit and frankly, ones ears are about the worst tool for a truly "scientific" analysis
analysis ? ... its just what puts a smile in your face. doesnt need no scientific analysis.

its not the way that people talk about things they have NO clue about. and most dont want to sell nothing, thats for sure !

the workflow ITB is a total different scenario compared to an analog setup. so it seems to me, thats where the problem starts. it takes a lot of brain cells to organize a hughe mixing session itb, for me at least.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #262
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5down1up ➡️
analysis ? ... its just what puts a smile in your face. doesnt need no scientific analysis.

its not the way that people talk about things they have NO clue about. and most dont want to sell nothing, thats for sure !

the workflow ITB is a total different scenario compared to an analog setup. so it seems to me, thats where the problem starts. it takes a lot of brain cells to organize a hughe mixing session itb, for me at least.
Its really a question of what you are used to. I am far more accustomed to my keyboard and screen than I am a desk as long as the room it sits in.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #263
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect ➡️
Its really a question of what you are used to.
Absolutely +1

that goes for workflow & sound ! the business plan " mentality " is not part of the discussion imo.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #264
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5down1up ➡️
Absolutely +1

that goes for workflow & sound ! the business plan " mentality " is not part of the discussion imo.
I agree :-)

This whole discussion reminds me of a stunningly sad comment I once heard over lunch when I was working for a very highly respected console manu, which had just got 'professional management' in. From one of these celebrated new guys came the throw away remark that "of course, nothing musical worth listening to has ever been created since the 1800's. The stuff people are churning out now with what we are making here is a cacophony and not art at all"!!

After I managed to cough up my choking lunch, I had to remind him who was ultimately paying his wages!!

Although luckily I wasn't to be amongst the swathes of our team these guys subsequently summarily marched out of employment one afternoon a few weeks later, the realisation that I had go on my own volition was cemented that very day with that very comment - regardless of how much it was going to cost me financially :-(
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #265
Lives for gear
 
camus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
This an old thread from PSW. Well worth a read again:

PSW Recording Forums: Reason In Audio => DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #266
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Nice story @ Paul

did you edit your post @ camus ( i received something different in my mail )

yep, i remember the MOTHER of all vs debates. 2005 ! times flying away
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #267
Lives for gear
 
camus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5down1up ➡️
Nice story @ Paul

did you edit your post @ camus ( i received something different in my mail )

yep, i remember the MOTHER of all vs debates. 2005 ! times flying away
I think the forum has enough noise vs signal already. A bit of self censorship never hurt anyone!
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #268
Lives for gear
 
gussyg2007's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm ➡️
This is an opinion that the overwhelming majority of high end mixers in rock and guitar based pop share. What is the problem?
"rock and guitar based pop" is how much of the overall music that is being recorded in the world ????
ok for instance i had to deliver twenty 3 minute tracks for sky tv last week i had one week to do it,there is no way i'm gonna put these together OTB and have them ready for a deadline ...and have there ppl make me do a s**t load of tiny tweeks and amendments thank god for totall recall !!
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #269
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gussyg2007 ➡️
"rock and guitar based pop" is how much of the overall music that is being recorded in the world ????
You didn't get the memo? Rock and guitar based pop is the evolutionary peak of music. Anything else is savage!!
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #270
Lives for gear
 
RCM - Ronan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3770 ➡️
[COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]What I’m wondering (just out of curiosity so I guess it’s semi-OT) is what you, or anyone else, feel is the biggest improvement of (high end) analog gear in the last 10, 20 or 30 years?
I do not feel that there has been a single significant advance in the sonic quality of recording technology in a few decades. There are have great advances in convince though, and there is currently manufactured technology that is on par with the best tools made 30 years ago.
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