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Yes you can mix with plug ins
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #211
Gear Head
 
CJdeVillar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante ➡️
The reverse may be said as well.

Of course the reverse could be said. But it would be less true.

If there's printing anxiety ITB then a therapist or a vacation maybe needed It doesn;t get easier.

Recall is not an issue ITB. Recall "i$" an issue OTB, or certainly more of an issue. Now, some will say; "Not for me" and that's great for those few, but it will be an issue even for them often enough, since pleasing the ever savvy client cannot be avoided.

Anyway, I'm not looking to downplay OTB, no no no, It was my life for many years. I miss it a lot, made way more money and loved it when everyone was in the same boat. But, I am also an advocate of ITB. I make it work and seem to please the old school die-hard record makers well. I never get complaints when they compare all the music they've made and mixed OTB. - Cheers
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #212
Deleted 99dc753
Guest
I think the world is having bigger problems as discussing ITB/OTB all the time over and over again.....lately it came to my mind this night.

A child is dieing in Africa every 3 minutes.

We have a credit crunch all over the world.

We have war in Afghanistan as well as in Iraq and in many other places of the world.

So ITB vs OTB should not be our greatest trouble these days.

The next time I will buy gear I think about if I can spent also money for hungry people in AFRICA or Brazil or any other poor place in this world.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #213
Gear Head
 
CJdeVillar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Geez dude, it's quite far from being any trouble at all. It's just fun banter.

Anyway, try this - Link Ethiopia - Welcome to Link Ethiopia
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #214
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
lately it came to my mind this night

you kill me
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #215
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
I think the world is having bigger problems as discussing ITB/OTB all the time over and over again.....lately it came to my mind this night.

A child is dieing in Africa every 3 minutes.

We have a credit crunch all over the world.

We have war in Afghanistan as well as in Iraq and in many other places of the world.

So ITB vs OTB should not be our greatest trouble these days.

The next time I will buy gear I think about if I can spent also money for hungry people in AFRICA or Brazil or any other poor place in this world.
Well we can't all walk around with Kleenex all day.
Old 5th February 2009
  #216
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Scanning for plugins

Prophet10
Good Day Gents,

Can anyone help me out with this question? I just got my macbook(not pro)and Pro-tools8"love it" and I'm trying to install Waves Diamond Bundle Version 5. I installed the waves but my plugins are not showing up in my pro-tools inserts. Does any one what I might be doing wrong?

Thank you in advanced
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #217
Lives for gear
 
dannycurtean@yah's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
So I said I need a break from GS and that is still true but this comment made me curious.

Today I was at a studio of a friend he has a lot of nice Outboard LA3A and LA2A as well as 1176LN Blackface etc.

So I took an Apple Drum Loop and compresed it one with an analouge compressor one with software. I may went a little extreme with both....but software is so bad so it should not sound any equal to yoh?

So if software is so bad it should be easy for you to pick the right sample from the first few bars on.

For me it is very hard to tell which is which.

Andreas
Loop 1 - Software
Loop 2 - Hardware
Not night and day but when you compare the 10% difference per track on 30 tracks then you have a 10% increase on the overall mix which to me is the difference between $1000 and $20,000.

And yes, I can hear a pretty noticeable difference in the two.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #218
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Yeah, that test isn't realistic.

If I was using a sample from a computer or keyboard I would have run it through my console, then my TG2. I would hit the thing hard to try and give it some analog artifacts. After that it would go into whatever comp I was thinking. And lastly, back onto a console channel and I would probably be using my consoles eq too.That would be the chain.

It adds up.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #219
Gear Addict
 
van Overhalen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5down1up ➡️

in music like yours, DYNAMITE, AGRESSION & CONVICTION is what the performance needs & deserves.

i bet theres a lot of processing going on, still the drum sound small and lush, the bass is somewhere else, the gits are wide but far away from being rude, the vocals go like lalalala.

thats all ITB things to my ears at least.

the final thing should rip your head off. of course you can go, the mixer doesnt know it any better. but theres some things that are very hard to achieve.

dont get me wrong, no offense ! i am having those problems most of the time, at least to my ears ... " oooooohhhhh, that sounds great " ... " are you f***** kidding ? "

Are you saying that if he'd use no plugins but hardware the vocals would lose their "lalala" quality and she'd all of a sudden sound like Alanis in "You Oughta Know" ?
Or by using hardware eq and compression you could make his guitars sound like Metallica's ?

I'd love Melodioso to give his raw tracks to you so you could try to make them sound like "DYNAMITE, AGRESSION & CONVICTION" by mixing them in the analog domain.

But you'd fail anyway because last time I looked there was the song, the arrangement, the room to record in, the singer/player, the voice/instrument/amplifier, the performance, the mics/-placement, the preamp/s even before you hit a medium be it analog or digital.

What you suggest here is a "fix it in the mix" by means of using hardware - approach
and I do not believe that this would improve any of the "weaknesses" you mention.

I am quite astonished that you say:

DYNAMITE, AGRESSION & CONVICTION is what the performance needs & deserves.

You speak of performance but you say that the lack of DYNAMITE, AGRESSION & CONVICTION is caused by mixing ITB.

Which analog console, which hardware compressor and eq guarantee me a performance like that ?
I'd like to own such items !

Oh and Melodioso, I too do not want to offend you in any way,
I do not think that your songs sound bad at all, it is just that in the meantime plugins are even
to blame when people feel that a vocal performance doesn't meet one's expectations.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #220
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hi @ van overhalen !

first of all, please keep in mind, that i mix in the box as well. we are just sharing opinions here, why some *think*, it still makes a difference !

as most know and JEDI Brauer pointed it out again, the person whos using it, makes the difference. -end of story-
if i am able to make it better or not doesnt matter at all, this aint a competition.

so, theres that little problem, that in probably 99% of the scenarios getting mentioned, theres always tons of " human power & knowhow " involved. so we need to cut the human factor off a little, or otherwise, where does it end ?


" yeah but they have those big speakers ... and that xyz console and recording to tape, alligned by the one and only, and all those eqs and that xyz compressor on the snare, and ... those microphones, and the stands, and the drums and the drummer who knows the son of the unlce whos sister married a guy and his friend who went to school with him when he was 7 knowed the owner of the store where bonham bought a pair of sticks back when he was 12 and that nice room and the pinball over at the lounge and and and ........... "

nevertheless i heard some things during my days on this planet and if we forget about the vodoo its as obvious as it gets to me thats theres MAJOR differences between different gear + platforms.

i dont even get the whole discussion ... can you hear a difference ?


and whats finally on tape when it comes to mixing, i mean the easiest excuse is, that it cant be good because the performance sucks. it is as it is and you have to make the best out of it ?

so your probably right when you say that i am probably unable to make it sound like metallica or whatever artist comes to mind. but there are people who can ... and then it doesnt really matter again, what they are using

* mein wort zum freitag *
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #221
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
I dug up a registration email I haven't used in almost a year to come in this thread and thank Paul F. I came from the last era of analog students who were learning the ropes when people started replacing their gear, and the whole ITB ideology was being born. I had some stubborn mentors who convinced me that this new "digital revolution" wouldn't last, because the sound simply couldn't compete.

It would take me a decade and a half before I could afford to start purchasing my own gear, because of that stubborness. Sure I had a laptop and I played around with all the new ITB toys, but I never took them serious. Then one day I read a thread on a forum by Paul F. in which he explained how much freedom he now had to create because of digital. He explained how while the results achieved in analog stand on their own sonically, as far as the engineers desires they often were as close as they could get within the limitations. Reading this a light clicked in my head.

I've since taken to enjoying working ITB and really exploring the possibilities. One of the biggest hurdles I think many people have ITB is that they think it should be simple, and that just isn't true. It may have took an engineer three years to dial up the 'perfect' setting on that 1176 (during which time the actual wear on the box itself may have played a role in shaping). You're not going to get stellar results ITB until you've put in just as much time. There is a feel ITB as much as there is OTB. A touch, and that takes practice. If you don't want to spend that time then ITB is not for you. If you want fast results, the sound result will be the evidence of such. But if you take the time and care to learn your tools ITB you can have phenomenal results. Will they ever sound like the 'perfect' signal chain you've got going OTB? Of course not. But here's the catch, if you invest the time, you may just find something better.

I know, I know that's heresy, but... I said it.

At any rate, thank you Paul F. I pretty much search the net for threads where you pop in just to get inspiration whenever I'm struggling to get a good result. Today is no different.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #222
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by avanturb ➡️
I dug up a registration email I haven't used in almost a year to come in this thread and thank Paul F. I came from the last era of analog students who were learning the ropes when people started replacing their gear, and the whole ITB ideology was being born. I had some stubborn mentors who convinced me that this new "digital revolution" wouldn't last, because the sound simply couldn't compete.

It would take me a decade and a half before I could afford to start purchasing my own gear, because of that stubborness. Sure I had a laptop and I played around with all the new ITB toys, but I never took them serious. Then one day I read a thread on a forum by Paul F. in which he explained how much freedom he now had to create because of digital. He explained how while the results achieved in analog stand on their own sonically, as far as the engineers desires they often were as close as they could get within the limitations. Reading this a light clicked in my head.

I've since taken to enjoying working ITB and really exploring the possibilities. One of the biggest hurdles I think many people have ITB is that they think it should be simple, and that just isn't true. It may have took an engineer three years to dial up the 'perfect' setting on that 1176 (during which time the actual wear on the box itself may have played a role in shaping). You're not going to get stellar results ITB until you've put in just as much time. There is a feel ITB as much as there is OTB. A touch, and that takes practice. If you don't want to spend that time then ITB is not for you. If you want fast results, the sound result will be the evidence of such. But if you take the time and care to learn your tools ITB you can have phenomenal results. Will they ever sound like the 'perfect' signal chain you've got going OTB? Of course not. But here's the catch, if you invest the time, you may just find something better.

I know, I know that's heresy, but... I said it.

At any rate, thank you Paul F. I pretty much search the net for threads where you pop in just to get inspiration whenever I'm struggling to get a good result. Today is no different.
Fer'Shizzle!
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #223
Gear Head
 
CJdeVillar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by avanturb ➡️
I dug up a registration email I haven't used in almost a year to come in this thread and thank Paul F. I came from the last era of analog students who were learning the ropes when people started replacing their gear, and the whole ITB ideology was being born. I had some stubborn mentors who convinced me that this new "digital revolution" wouldn't last, because the sound simply couldn't compete.

It would take me a decade and a half before I could afford to start purchasing my own gear, because of that stubborness. Sure I had a laptop and I played around with all the new ITB toys, but I never took them serious. Then one day I read a thread on a forum by Paul F. in which he explained how much freedom he now had to create because of digital. He explained how while the results achieved in analog stand on their own sonically, as far as the engineers desires they often were as close as they could get within the limitations. Reading this a light clicked in my head.

I've since taken to enjoying working ITB and really exploring the possibilities. One of the biggest hurdles I think many people have ITB is that they think it should be simple, and that just isn't true. It may have took an engineer three years to dial up the 'perfect' setting on that 1176 (during which time the actual wear on the box itself may have played a role in shaping). You're not going to get stellar results ITB until you've put in just as much time. There is a feel ITB as much as there is OTB. A touch, and that takes practice. If you don't want to spend that time then ITB is not for you. If you want fast results, the sound result will be the evidence of such. But if you take the time and care to learn your tools ITB you can have phenomenal results. Will they ever sound like the 'perfect' signal chain you've got going OTB? Of course not. But here's the catch, if you invest the time, you may just find something better.

I know, I know that's heresy, but... I said it.

At any rate, thank you Paul F. I pretty much search the net for threads where you pop in just to get inspiration whenever I'm struggling to get a good result. Today is no different.
Really well said. Great first post.
Old 7th February 2009 | Show parent
  #224
Deleted 99dc753
Guest
Discussing is still going on?

OK I have not read all comments from my last point on I made.

1.
Sorry to RCM may I was bit too sarcastic.

2.
Yes I know what you mean with HW and that it sounds different I never wrote that it is the same.

3.
Yes I still believe that we have enginners which can make it happen fully ITB with a lot of knowledge about the digital domain.

4.
Yes I like analogue summing and I am going to have my own unit in march.

This is not a fact of sound mainly for me the mixing is more easy because I do not have to care so much about levels.
I can concentrate on the music more.

5.
I believe we can recreate analogue artefact's better and better these days.
Take for example the harmonics which the UAD Percision Maximaizer does when the limiting unit is switched off.

It reacts very analogue when you raise the input and lower the output it creates more and more nice H2 H3.

Compare this one to some HW Units and you will recognize it is in a blindfold test very hard to tell the difference.
You can make statements about what you like more...but nothing more.

I think we have to live with the fact that more and more studios switch over to mixing ITB with summing .... a reason of costs.

I never was a person who was/is dogmatic and myself I am open to changes!!!

Otherwise I had to do all my mixes in a local studio with a NEVE-Desk
which would be very expensive and would mean for my customers to give up their wish of a great CD or Demo.

That is all I can say and I hope that the thread I opened is now dieing with this.

I did not knew that I was provocative to many slutz here.

Sorry

Andreas
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #225
Gear Addict
 
van Overhalen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey 5down1up,

I too just shared my opinion which happens to be that what you said is just plain wrong.
Sorry !
In my opinion you overestimate what can be achieved in mixing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5down1up ➡️
so your probably right when you say that i am probably unable to make it sound like metallica or whatever artist comes to mind. but there are people who can ...
I was not saying that YOU can't make it sound better, I was saying that you can't make it sound like "DYNAMITE, AGRESSION & CONVICTION" JUST BY MIXING IT IN THE ANALOG DOMAIN.
It was not about "YOU" it was about "in the analog domain".
Nevertheless I believe that nobody in the world can take a soso lala vocal performance and change it into something outstanding just by mixing it (with or without outboard gear).
Nobody in the world can take a given track and "make it sound like whatever artist comes to their mind".
To suggest that anyone can is just wrong IMHO.
And it is far beyond the ITB/OTB debate.
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #226
Deleted 99dc753
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by van Overhalen ➡️
Hey 5down1up,

I too just shared my opinion which happens to be that what you said is just plain wrong.
Sorry !
In my opinion you overestimate what can be achieved in mixing.


I was not saying that YOU can't make it sound better, I was saying that you can't make it sound like "DYNAMITE, AGRESSION & CONVICTION" JUST BY MIXING IT IN THE ANALOG DOMAIN.
It was not about "YOU" it was about "in the analog domain".
Nevertheless I believe that nobody in the world can take a soso lala vocal performance and change it into something outstanding just by mixing it (with or without outboard gear).
Nobody in the world can take a given track and "make it sound like whatever artist comes to their mind".
To suggest that anyone can is just wrong IMHO.
And it is far beyond the ITB/OTB debate.
This is logical to me if you do not have recorded eg metallica it would never sound like them even not with finest outboard.

but this is an old storry you cant fix performace and vibe with gear...
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #227
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
sorry guys, ... but then you never had the pleasure, to be around, when >someone< was mixing.
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #228
Gear Head
 
CJdeVillar's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
It is certainly true that putting ones PT rig or 3348 or Mits thru an analog console is not analog. It's partly analog, but if one is to say "It's an analog mix" it should be 100%, yes?

So many levels and such. There should be a 1 thru 10 analog/dig ratio.

PT as playback only > analog console. PT w plugs > analog console. PT transfers w/wo plugs to/from, AtoD's on processors, bla bla bla.

I mean is anybody really bitching about the same things?

What the frick is what?
Old 8th February 2009 | Show parent
  #229
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Different does not have to equal better/worse.

Its a matter of workflow, skill, and preference. Good/bad can come out of either, its in the hands of the person running the show.

Analog Vs. Digital debates are not unlike Middle Eastern conflicts...
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #230
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithcok ➡️
Different does not have to equal better/worse.

Its a matter of workflow, skill, and preference. Good/bad can come out of either, its in the hands of the person running the show.

Analog Vs. Digital debates are not unlike Middle Eastern conflicts...
lol
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #231
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithcok ➡️
Good/bad can come out of either, its in the hands of the person running the show.
You would think...and yet very little good has come out of digital.
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #232
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJdeVillar ➡️
It is certainly true that putting ones PT rig or 3348 or Mits thru an analog console is not analog. It's partly analog,
Actually it is a 100% analog mix of analog signals. There is nothing digital about that, when discussion the ITB/OTB issue.
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #233
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm ➡️
Actually it is a 100% analog mix of analog signals. There is nothing digital about that, when discussion the ITB/OTB issue.
Interesting...how come?
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #234
Deleted 99dc753
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm ➡️
Actually it is a 100% analog mix of analog signals. There is nothing digital about that, when discussion the ITB/OTB issue.
RCM said it even mixing with a summing unit is for him not ITB.

Anyway RCM is right if you use PT as Play-Back-Media and mix on a console it is 100% analogue mixing what else?
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #235
Gear Addict
 
van Overhalen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5down1up ➡️
sorry guys, ... but then you never had the pleasure, to be around, when >someone< was mixing.
Who is your "someone" ?
Might be interesting to ask him if he thinks that he's as omnipotent as you think he is ?

Most of the "someones" I know about tend to agree that you can't

fix it in the mix
polish a turd
make something happen that's not on tape in the first place

Most of them seem to agree on

I want to push up the faders and the mix should happen at that very moment
You have to record what you want to hear

but then maybe your "someone" is the great exception from the rule ?
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #236
Lives for gear
 
Kronos147's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
RCM, maybe you would also agree to the fact that mixing ITB is also for the most Musicians a fact of cash.

And you may also would agree that there are out many different great plug ins.
I paid more for my Waves Renaissance TDM than I did for my current console. I could do without the Waves now, I would not say the same of the console.
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #237
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 ➡️
You would think...and yet very little good has come out of digital.
Total Bull****. Your personal bias is quite clear
Old 9th February 2009 | Show parent
  #238
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by van Overhalen ➡️
> fix it in the mix, polish a turd, make something happen that's not on tape in the first place

>> I want to push up the faders and the mix should happen at that very moment

>>> Who is your "someone" ?
> those are all phrases, which occur to be right. they say nothing about how far it can or cant go.

>> thats the last thing imo you cant expect from itb

>>> you always need an official permission for every word being said ?
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #239
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect ➡️
Total Bull****. Your personal bias is quite clear
Is it?

I was sort of trying to put it aside and look at the reality of it.

I tell you what...you name 10 great digital albums, and I'll name 10 analog albums, and we'll take a vote as to which 10 are better.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #240
Lives for gear
 
Jimbo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 ➡️
Is it?

I was sort of trying to put it aside and look at the reality of it.

I tell you what...you name 10 great digital albums, and I'll name 10 analog albums, and we'll take a vote as to which 10 are better.
better == sonically superior, right?
So, this is not a contest about the tunage, but the AE work, right?

I'm intrigued...
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