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Yes you can mix with plug ins
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #151
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mixerguy's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor ➡️
Read Casey's from Bricasti explanation in this thread:

https://gearspace.com/board/new-prod...-fx-pcm96.html
specifically this post looks interesting to read......

https://gearspace.com/board/3647089-post17.html

Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #152
Gear Addict
 
gransonik's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The great thing about plugins is this: You can do much better mixes with plugins that cost let's say 800$ (Waves SSL) than 2-3 DBX compressors and cheap onboard EQ from your low-end board.

Unless you can afford the real thing, these kind of plugins are way ahead compared to similary priced low-end outboard.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #153
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ryanojohn's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericwall ➡️
It's like a five-star chef saying "I'll cook a great meal with whatever meat you give me"...


I'd say the song is the meat... the mix tools are the kitchen...
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #154
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gussyg2007's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
OTB,ITB,OTB,ITB..............
who gives a crap
when you switch on the radio you gotta ask yourself ...seriously.....what percentage of the population are going
"hmmm i wonder if they mixed that on G series or a HD3 rig "
if its good its good
if its bad its bad regardless !!
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #155
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
That is 5 posts a day between working?

But you know I have changed my opinion just with this thread.

It is mostly useless to post something here.

1. Some people do not have humour and do not get the aim of
my opening post.

2. You post something and it starts a religious war here.

Yes most of the GS threads are time wasting MHB is right and this here opened my mind and eyes.

By the way both of my files have been digital compresors.
Did you saw any engineer posting here....

NO WAY THIS IS BOTH DIGITAL.

So it is totally stupid.
We can have great mixes in both domains and many enginners agreed it.

Or as another slut wrote:

Do you like apples or bananas!

I ask myself what is so funny about talking two different fruits.

NOTHINGheh

you still use your MPX500 ITB?
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #156
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm ➡️
Its funny you mention golf, I was thinking about that analogy today. Could Tiger Woods play a great game of golf with a cheap set of golf clubs from walmart? Yes, he could still probably beat 99% of the golfers in the world, but could he make his personal best course scores with them?

I am waaaaay far from being the Tiger Woods of mixing. I need all the help I can get.
I disagree with that, but for a different reason (besides 99% of the golfers not being at the pro level).

What he does is so precise and so practiced, that taking the set of clubs that he uses daily would alter his game.

I know that you point was it's not the clubs that makes the player, but altering someone's tool absolutely has an effect.


Take someone off of a console and make them work with a mouse. At the bare minimum, that no level of concentration required to navigate with a mouse rather than hand takes away from your listening concentration. So, assuming, for the sake of argument, that the box and console sound identical, you won't end up with an identical mix because the process is different.

The interface between analog and digital, even when using a control surface is significantly different in a results affecting way.

(note I'm not making a judgment about how it affects results)
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #157
Gear Addict
 
van Overhalen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor ➡️
Read Casey's from Bricasti explanation in this thread:

https://gearspace.com/board/new-prod...-fx-pcm96.html
Thank you !
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #158
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dangoudie's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericwall ➡️
There's always a wall of outboards behind top-mixers that talks about mixing ITB.

Still waiting to see one of them in a room with a laptop, two speakers and a smile on their face...
Did you not see pictures of Craig Potter's mix room for when he did Elbow's most recent Grammy winning album?

Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #159
GS Community Manager
 
Whitecat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangoudie ➡️
Did you not see pictures of Craig Potter's mix room for when he did Elbow's most recent Grammy winning album?
No Grammy... Mercury Music Prize though.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #160
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cosmos's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yes you can mix with plug ins

yes i can! i just dont want to.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #161
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colinmiller's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Does anyone else giggle because the thread title reminds them of an Obama campaign?

"We we can!" (mix with plugins!)
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #162
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5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
I forgot to mention I will give you 500$ extra on your booking fee because you are great
your a sarcastic man my friend heh

everything is sorted out, its nothing new that every single tool you use, always depends on the user.

no matter if its a ball, a hammer, a tatoo machine, guitar, cooking pot *insert whatever comes to mind here*

theres no doubt that an experienced eng can have great results on both platforms. the final result may occur as the most important but for some others ( myself included ) ... *what gets you there* has the same importance.

besides that, all the setups we use may vary a LOT. i am not in the position with my lil guerilla audio setup, to have the whole arsenal @ hand.

if there wouldnt be digital & plugins and all those wild technologies i wouldnt be able to afford an comparable, speaking options, analog only setup.

then theres the marketing brigade, of the almost uncountable companies, who try to make the tools available for a lot more end users as it was 20 years ago. you can bet that f.ex .the " reverbmakers " never gonna release a plugin thats eye to eye with the hardware they want to sell. most living rooms nowadays have more cpu power compared to those 60s space ships. if the soundquality would depend on the horse power only, there should be a 480 plugin for a long time !?

but of course its great to are able to buy a computer nowadays which lets you run and simulate big boards & a hughe array of dynamic & fx boxes. thats what its trying to do. and for some tasks like film, x.1 etc. the digital machines have taken over already speaking about hughe sessions, controllers, recall etc.


being able to tell if theres a digital eq on the hihat or not has no importance for me at all. its just a tiny lil piece ripped out of a big picture !

enough said, i am gonna go and hook up the m5000
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #163
Lives for gear
 
RCM - Ronan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey ➡️
I disagree with that, but for a different reason (besides 99% of the golfers not being at the pro level).

)
sounds like we are in agreement.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #164
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Just because a record sells lots of copies doesn't mean that it sounds good. Just because you paid a contractor 10000000 to build a house doesnt mean its a good house. Most houses now are built like ****...but they look good and cost more than many of the older and better houses out there. The formula isn't straight forward. It has many variables. Its why there is an argument going on. But seriously...listen to Phil Ramone records...listen to Lanois...you think some ITB record from last year sounds better...if so you might want to start building houses LOL

At the end of the day the best sounding records out there were recorded OTB. I dont care who won what award...who sold more records...OTB sounds better. Listen people!
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #165
Deleted 99dc753
Guest
@RCM

How long is it ago that you tried to mix with state of the art plug ins like the UAD 2 platform and very minor outboard.

I know what you mean with your last statement and I know you are longer in it than me.... just what I can say I have heard great ITB mixes and thought they where done analogue on a console.

I think it is also a preference and also a matter of space.
Even if I had the money I would have space problem.

Comparing my 1176 simulation to the real deal I must say UAD did great job and I can live with this. And if this holds stand for all the channel strips by UAD I do not know why with a bit experimenting and a lot of patience some one could not find out to do great mixes where most enginners cant say where they have been mixed.

But thats only me and for me it is fun to get better and better mixing ITB and using minor outboard.

Again I know waht you mean but you also statet that you failed too and this shows us today taht the enginners is the key to it and plays a bigger role as the gear.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #166
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badboymusic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
this here opened my mind and eyes.
Now if you could just shut your pompous mouth
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #167
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I found this on Mr holmes website

Most musicians can't!!
Thanks to modern communication systems, however, there is a budget-friendly solution. Mixing-Room-Berlin has partnered with a Texas-USA based studio which is equiped with a 24 Track Tape Machine and a late-1970's MCI-Console. We run all your single tracks through the tape-machine and the console and back into Pro Tools via a High-End-Converter. With this you get nonlinear saturation products and come very close to the real desk sound, while maintaining all the advantages of contemporary digital editing.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #168
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gussyg2007's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keire ➡️

At the end of the day the best sounding records out there were recorded OTB. I dont care who won what award...who sold more records...OTB sounds better. Listen people!

hogwash
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #169
Kush Audio
 
u b k's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangoudie ➡️
Did you not see pictures of Craig Potter's mix room for when he did Elbow's most recent Grammy winning album?

i've been wondering why their latest has so much less depth than my favorite, cast of thousands. i assumed it was the mastering and the extra, gratuitous rms-boosting compression. did they mix their older records on the same rig?

don't get me wrong, the latest sounds cool, it just lacks in comparison to 'cast', which is one of those magical recordings where i feel like i can reach out and touch the sounds. and the bottom end on the new one isn't in the same league, and i do miss the wider overall dynamics.


gregory scott - 'ubk'
.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #170
Lives for gear
 
gussyg2007's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k ➡️
i've been wondering why their latest has so much less depth than my favorite, cast of thousands. i assumed it was the mastering and the extra, gratuitous rms-boosting compression. did they mix their older records on the same rig?

don't get me wrong, the latest sounds cool, it just lacks in comparison to 'cast', which is one of those magical recordings where i feel like i can reach out and touch the sounds. and the bottom end on the new one isn't in the same league, and i do miss the wider overall dynamics.


gregory scott - 'ubk'
.
i should imagine Elbow would beg to differ with you i'm sure they are very happy with it
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #171
GS Community Manager
 
Whitecat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k ➡️
i've been wondering why their latest has so much less depth than my favorite, cast of thousands. i assumed it was the mastering and the extra, gratuitous rms-boosting compression. did they mix their older records on the same rig?

don't get me wrong, the latest sounds cool, it just lacks in comparison to 'cast', which is one of those magical recordings where i feel like i can reach out and touch the sounds. and the bottom end on the new one isn't in the same league, and i do miss the wider overall dynamics.


gregory scott - 'ubk'
.
Can't be much compression, the record is approved/certified by turnmeup.org... I think it's got quite a lot of dynamic range myself, a different texture than their other stuff but by no means poor at all.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #172
Gear Addict
 
van Overhalen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I think this ITB/OTB debate would be much more relevant if people could really and definitely agree on which records sound good and which do not in the first place.

But they can't.

Usually Mr. Anybody will say: "Revolver by The Beatles made me become an engineer, it sounds so beautiful !"
Mr. Anybode-Else will chime in and say:"Are you mad, this record sounds like a ****ing demo !But listen to the new Nickelback release, man it's sooo punchy!"
And on it goes...

If you don't agree please prove me otherwise.
Start a poll around here about which records sound good beyond a doubt and which don't!

When you have that settled you can continue arguing which method yields the "best "results.

In the meantime I'll lean back in my chair and get some popcorn.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #173
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by van Overhalen ➡️
I think this ITB/OTB debate would be much more relevant if people could really and definitely agree on which records sound good and which do not in the first place.

But they can't.

Usually Mr. Anybody will say: "Revolver by The Beatles made me become an engineer, it sounds so beautiful !"
Mr. Anybode-Else will chime in and say:"Are you mad, this record sounds like a ****ing demo !But listen to the new Nickelback release, man it's sooo punchy!"
And on it goes...

If you don't agree please prove me otherwise.
Start a poll around here about which records sound good beyond a doubt and which don't!

When you have that settled you can continue arguing which method yields the "best "results.

In the meantime I'll lean back in my chair and get some popcorn.
Why - oh why do all these threads have to descend into a polarised and almost religious OTB/ITB argument - it beats me.

It seems amazing that anyone would do anything other than use whatever they can get their hands on to further their art? After all that's exactly what I have done my whole life - first it was valves/tubes, then it was transistors, then integrated circuits, then digital signal processing - whatever I could get my hands on to make new interesting and useful stuff.

The idea that anyone would dismiss any tool that comes available based on whether it is in or out of some 'box' is crazy. It's a bit like saying you won't drive a car because it's got a roof and there ain't no horse at the front - LOL - And I could have spent my whole life since the 1960's limited to fiddling endlessly with tubes and expounding their superiority - whilst declaring that all this new stuff developed since then from large scale consoles, workstations, amazingly innovative new applications are all rubbish - because there ain't no tubes inside :-(..

Surely this would be an absurd notion?
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #174
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericwall ➡️
There's always a wall of outboards behind top-mixers that talks about mixing ITB.

Still waiting to see one of them in a room with a laptop, two speakers and a smile on their face...

I've also noticed that most the time the interview is sponsored by a plug-in company. fuuck
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #175
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Frindle ➡️
Surely this would be an absurd notion?
+1 ...
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #176
GS Community Manager
 
Whitecat's Avatar
Once again Paul F. is the voice of reason cutting through all the ridiculous preaching from both camps. Go buy his plug-in, it's superb, and there isn't a single piece of hardware that can do what it does. heh
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #177
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keire ➡️
Alot of people on this board say things like "you need to learn how to do it" or "learn the gain staging" etc...

It just seems like a handicap to me.
Its not a handicap. You have to learn those things for analog gear as well.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #178
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The MPCist's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm ➡️
..... the sonic compromise for the financial gain of addressing client demands for super easy recall.
Yep, ain't that the truth. It takes less than a day to mix and then five to six days for everyone from the artist's boyfriend, label's secretary, manager, and the manager's dog to listen to it and finalize any mix changes. Keeping that up on the console/outboard even with recall would be way too much $$$. So the best thing is to do as much as you can with ITB/select outboard........ compromises compromises.......
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #179
Deleted 99dc753
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by badboymusic ➡️
Now if you could just shut your pompous mouth
This is a forum and did you see that RCM ever bashed me.
I can tell my opinion here as every other user as well as RCM said this is the idea of GS we talk about diffrent ways to do the same and may can learn from each other.

I would say shut your own mouth and show us who you are.
I never said I am great but I am a bit proud that I had a few clients which where happy with the things I did for them.

I think RCM is respecting that if some one starts out and tries to offer different possibilities for their mix down.

For my part I am happy that people like RCM are here.

And if I ask him a question I am sure that he does need you as lap dog answering his questions.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #180
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericwall View Post
There's always a wall of outboards behind top-mixers that talks about mixing ITB.

Still waiting to see one of them in a room with a laptop, two speakers and a smile on their face...

This is because people would never book a room that didn't have all of the toys.
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