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Yes you can mix with plug ins
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #121
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Frindle ➡️
Yes - I would agree with that, there is just so much out there of such varying quality and usefulness. Also there are a lot of 'fashion trends' that muddy the waters (like attempted and sometimes dubious legacy clones), and stuff that's really innovative can so easily be lost in the hubbub of marketing 'noise'. There are also the confounding claims of 'digital accuracy' that is wrongly used to confer a notion of 'lateral validity' onto things that are not accurate emulations of past kit, or indeed innovative at all - even though their internal math maybe floating point 64bit blah-blah.. The industry is largely killing itself with it's own marketing 'noise'.

All this certainly makes my brain hurt like everyone else's - and I have to be honest that I ignore this stuff when designing anything - I always have. I am after something that I want mostly always based on sounds in my head - and I don't look at anything else out there for fear of being waylaid from that vision.

It's just a terrific shame if people buried under all this stuff give up trying to find out what's really worth using that could make their lives so much easier and produce results unavailable by other means? But I must confess that I really do understand their sentiments.....


i feel like toxic with all this math stuff and things about digital plug ins, marketing noise etc..

how to disintoxicate ?

only way i've found is using hardware things like AMPS! to me is really the better way to achieve a sound that is in my head.. and also great dynamic mics like 441
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #122
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHB850 ➡️
As long as the debate over the success of a mix is based on equipment rather than the person using it, you are wasting your time. mhb
ok guys..

this is the ultimate answer.. stike given by the master himself.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #123
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firby's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
In my experience, I can add any compressor, eq, reverb, de-eser, delay, etc. to my OTB mix system and the OTB mix system will still boot up and do it's job. I find that comforting, personally. Plugins have not shown themselves to be the same. Often my Logic system has been rendered unconscious by a lewd lowdown and trifling plugin.

If my console takes a wank on a channel or whatever I don't have to call overseas and talk to some guy from India (no offense to guys from India). I don't know how support from the plugin companies works(I have never called service on any) but I would be pretty offended if they shipped their support overseas like so many IT companies do. I really despise the "is it me or you hardware or software ??" games that those people play to help the bottom line for their shareholders or whatever.

If something here breaks, I'll get it fixed and yes, it will cost money.

If I mix for a year on the OTB system nobody is going to come around and tax me for another year of mixing OTB. Although yes I still have maintenance costs.

I don't hear much difference in a lot of the plugins, I feel like it takes alot of plugins stacked up on tracks to effect the same difference as one piece of hardware driven just right.

Also I like dancing around and bopping/standing up when I mix. If I wanted to sit in a chair all day and make big bucks I would get really good at excel or something.

When I went to audio school I was all hot and bothered about doing ITB mixes using waves plugins. I did some great mixes that way. Now though I am all OTB with exception that I use Logic as a 24 track tape machine, oh and I edit. I think that ITB is absolutely ace for editing.

Good consoles are so frickin cheap used now, I can't fathom not having one on hand.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #124
Gear Maniac
 
ericwall's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigramp ➡️
did you track the vocals through the MC77, or sent a pre-recorded vocals through it ?
Yeah, as you wrote, Mic-Pre-MC77-DAW, and then I did another take without MC77.

To me, if you're after punchy "cut-through-dense-mix" or "radio-pop-lead-vocals" e.g. where you would reach for the classic 1176 qualities the UAD1176 is lame IMHO.

I'm still a little confused by MHB:s gimme-what-you-got-and-I'll-make-a-great-mix comment.
It's like a five-star chef saying "I'll cook a great meal with whatever meat you give me"...

Talent, experience and gear.

The three corner-stones of mixing IMHO...

...and a great room of course.

The four cornerstones of mixing IMHO...

/EW
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #125
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by firby ➡️
In my experience, I can add any compressor, eq, reverb, de-eser, delay, etc. to my OTB mix system and the OTB mix system will still boot up and do it's job. I find that comforting, personally. Plugins have not shown themselves to be the same. Often my Logic system has been rendered unconscious by a lewd lowdown and trifling plugin.

If my console takes a wank on a channel or whatever I don't have to call overseas and talk to some guy from India (no offense to guys from India). I don't know how support from the plugin companies works(I have never called service on any) but I would be pretty offended if they shipped their support overseas like so many IT companies do. I really despise the "is it me or you hardware or software ??" games that those people play to help the bottom line for their shareholders or whatever.

If something here breaks, I'll get it fixed and yes, it will cost money.

If I mix for a year on the OTB system nobody is going to come around and tax me for another year of mixing OTB. Although yes I still have maintenance costs.

I don't hear much difference in a lot of the plugins, I feel like it takes alot of plugins stacked up on tracks to effect the same difference as one piece of hardware driven just right.

Also I like dancing around and bopping/standing up when I mix. If I wanted to sit in a chair all day and make big bucks I would get really good at excel or something.

When I went to audio school I was all hot and bothered about doing ITB mixes using waves plugins. I did some great mixes that way. Now though I am all OTB with exception that I use Logic as a 24 track tape machine, oh and I edit. I think that ITB is absolutely ace for editing.

Good consoles are so frickin cheap used now, I can't fathom not having one on hand.
Good points - I can sympathise with some of this sentiment, even if I don't agree on some of the technical matters :-)

But you do use outboard gear - some of which is digital? But you are averse to using a Mac or PC as outboard gear?

Maybe making plug-ins is no longer a valid business to people turned off by them for whatever reason? If for instance I made a box with a processor in it with analogue/digital I/O and made it run our plug-ins processing and nothing else would it make sense to you guys more? The only thing is that instead of costing £200 for as many as you wanted to run simultaneously, it would cost around £2000 at least for each instance of the box.. And of course making boxes would require many times more resources than we currently have or could afford if it ultimately failed to sell.

Whoever made the point about the technical discussion burying the real art of the user, is entirely right. But of course we are still reliant on our technical gear to allow us the privilege of actually doing this stuff at all - whether it be a microphones, consoles, workstations or signal processes :-) All I am honestly trying to do is to bring you these tools in a manner that most suits the way you work - and is sustainable in the modern business climate..

Just thoughts really :-)
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #126
Gear Maniac
 
ericwall's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigramp ➡️
ok
i need a MC77
I don't think you'll regret it thumbsup


...and yeah, a great espresso-machine...

Five... five cornerstones of mixing...

/EW
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #127
PDC
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaidon ➡️
Truth!
It has happened. I know it has. They might not have been mondo channel count pop rock sessions, but it has happened. I know of one guy that won a Grammy for his. He also captured with Metric Halo. It's the content and performance that make life easy, not all of the the gear.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #128
Gear Addict
 
van Overhalen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Frindle ➡️

But you do use outboard gear - some of which is digital? But you are averse to using a Mac or PC as outboard gear?

If for instance I made a box with a processor in it with analogue/digital I/O and made it run our plug-ins processing and nothing else would it make sense to you guys more? The only thing is that instead of costing £200 for as many as you wanted to run simultaneously, it would cost around £2000 at least for each instance of the box.. And of course making boxes would require many times more resources than we currently have or could afford if it ultimately failed to sell.
According to forum wisdom concerning reverb units
the answer seems to be:

Yes, a dedicated "box" with AD/DA makes way more sence.

Everybody here seems to agree that plug in reverbs suck in comparison to hardware units, despite the fact that they are all digital.
When asked why this is the case people say:
"It's the converters".
Or:
"The algos in the hardware units are better".

True ?
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #129
Gear Maniac
 
ericwall's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigramp ➡️
again, i'm curious, which mic and which pre is that ?

thanks
Ahh, sorry...

Lawson L47 MP through EMBlue

/EW
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #130
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taturana's Avatar
 
12 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericwall ➡️


...and yeah, a great espresso-machine...

Five... five cornerstones of mixing...

/EW
i know i ,for one, could not mix without mine...heh
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #131
Gear Maniac
 
ericwall's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by van Overhalen ➡️
According to forum wisdom concerning reverb units
the answer seems to be:

Yes, a dedicated "box" with AD/DA makes way more sence.

Everybody here seems to agree that plug in reverbs suck in comparison to hardware units, despite the fact that they are all digital.
When asked why this is the case people say:
"It's the converters".
Or:
"The algos in the hardware units are better".

True ?
I've never heard any other explanation to the greatness of the old Lexicon-units (EMT and PCM) than converters, algos and extraordinary engineering. I'm curious too.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #132
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola ➡️
ok guys..

this is the ultimate answer.. stike given by the master himself.
not really...****ty things are still ****ty things
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #133
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by van Overhalen ➡️
According to forum wisdom concerning reverb units
the answer seems to be:

Yes, a dedicated "box" with AD/DA makes way more sence.

Everybody here seems to agree that plug in reverbs suck in comparison to hardware units, despite the fact that they are all digital.
When asked why this is the case people say:
"It's the converters".
Or:
"The algos in the hardware units are better".

True ?

So would you be prepared to shell out £2000 for a box that contained our plug - the exact same process - and still consider it to be better value, even though you were limited to only one instance at a time? Apart from the fact that you would find it more convenient with the way you prefer to work - what else would make it better? Is it presence - or stature etc? Or would it be that because it had appeared first as a lowly plug-in process, it could never have the stature of a H/W box - even if the H/W box had contained the exact same process in the first place?

And how far are you prepared to go down the route of flexibility whilst still retaining the quality vision? For instance say a box containing several processes you could chose from during a session - or even as far as a box you could add processes to yourself at further cost? Or is that getting too close to being a 'plug-in' concept - because it begins to look like a PC concept item, the only difference being that it is in a smart box with dedicated control sets?

BTW I hope people don't mind me asking this stuff. I am a financially struggling engineer wedded completely to sound, the art and honesty, not a marketing executive! I am seriously trying to understand how these things are thought of amongst the user fraternity
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #134
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Frindle ➡️

BTW I hope people don't mind me asking this stuff. I am a financially struggling engineer wedded completely to sound, the art and honesty, not a marketing executive! I am seriously trying to understand how these things are thought of amongst the user fraternity
Reverb is one instance where I fully expect plug ins to become comparable to hardware. I am actually surprised it has not happened yet. But for what ever reason, every time I have A-B'ed plug in reverb to a decent hardware unit, the hardware has had more depth and texture and blended into the mix better.

Its going to be really cool when it gets there. Even though I am an analog console mixer, I would love to be able to bring up multiple instances of reverb on the console that were on par with my hardware units. It would open up some cool options for me.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #135
Gear Addict
 
van Overhalen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Frindle ➡️
So would you be prepared to shell out £2000 for a box that contained our plug - the exact same process - and still consider it to be better value, even though you were limited to only one instance at a time?
Seems that I came across as someone who believes in "outboard plug ins".
I don't.
I just really wanted to know what you think about this "better reverb algos in hardware boxes" or "the reverb plug in is missing the ad/da-part" argument.
I am here to learn something !

To answer your questions:

No, I wouldn't shell out 2000 bucks.
And no I wouldn't consider a "box running an algo" being better value than a plug in.
I don't suffer this plugin allergy.
I own and use plugins that allowed me to buy a few fine hardware boxes and I still use plugins and see no reason to not use them.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #136
Gear Addict
 
van Overhalen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm ➡️
But for what ever reason, every time I have A-B'ed plug in reverb to a decent hardware unit, the hardware has had more depth and texture and blended into the mix better.
But why do you think this is so ?
There must be an explanation besides better programming or conversion that the plug ins are missing ?!
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #137
Deleted 99dc753
Guest
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHB850
As long as the debate over the success of a mix is based on equipment rather than the person using it, you are wasting your time. mhb
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola ➡️
ok guys..

this is the ultimate answer.. stike given by the master himself.
George I think they are more interested in typing as in working on their skills. Or they may think there is nothing to improve on the skills and they have time to discuss something where is nothing to discuss.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #138
Gear Addict
 
van Overhalen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
George I think they are more interested in typing as in working on their skills. Or they may think there is nothing to improve on the skills and they have time to discuss something where is nothing to discuss.
1724 posts since Juli 2007.
You must be VERY skillful, then !
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #139
Deleted 99dc753
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by van Overhalen ➡️
1724 posts since Juli 2007.
You must be VERY skillful, then !
That is 5 posts a day between working?

But you know I have changed my opinion just with this thread.

It is mostly useless to post something here.

1. Some people do not have humour and do not get the aim of
my opening post.

2. You post something and it starts a religious war here.

Yes most of the GS threads are time wasting MHB is right and this here opened my mind and eyes.

By the way both of my files have been digital compresors.
Did you saw any engineer posting here....

NO WAY THIS IS BOTH DIGITAL.

So it is totally stupid.
We can have great mixes in both domains and many enginners agreed it.

Or as another slut wrote:

Do you like apples or bananas!

I ask myself what is so funny about talking two different fruits.

NOTHINGheh
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #140
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by van Overhalen ➡️
But why do you think this is so ?
There must be an explanation besides better programming or conversion that the plug ins are missing ?!
I am far from smart enough to know how all that stuff works under the hood, I just know how to use it on records pretty well. My only guess is that some of them (hardware) use proprietary processors and they do not have to share horse power with anything other than doing reverb.

But in the end it does not make sense to me. It totally makes sense how a plug in EQ or Compressor would not stack up, but I am confused about reverbs.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #141
Lives for gear
 
RCM - Ronan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
George I think they are more interested in typing as in working on their skills. Or they may think there is nothing to improve on the skills and they have time to discuss something where is nothing to discuss.
I thought you were going on vacation for a few weeks. Welcome back.

I always chime in on these debates because I believe that it is the single most important debate of the decade in relation to professional recording. The ITB vs. OTB debate is far more important than the analog tape vs. digital mediums debate. It is not a matter of personal taste, but a matter of how the the flow and dynamics, and caliber of professional client services are being affected by these differences in working methodologies. The fact that certain service providers (ITB mixers) chose to work with specific tools that provide instant recall and flexibility and achieve a certain sound, has negatively affected those that choose to use other tools sets that provide a different sound, but do not offer the convenience of easy recall.

Mixers that believe they can do their absolute best work on analog consoles are being forced to compromise their work to meet the new trend of instant recall.

I have said this many times, in the last 15 years since mixing completely ITB has been an option, I have never met a single high end mixer that works in rock or guitar based pop that has ever told me privately that they choose to mix ITB because it allows them to make better sounding records. They have all told me that they made the sonic compromise for the financial gain of addressing client demands for super easy recall. I am not saying that high end rock mixers that have a different opinion do not exist, but I have never hung out with them and talked gear privately.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #142
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm ➡️
I am far from smart enough to know how all that stuff works under the hood, I just know how to use it on records pretty well. My only guess is that some of them (hardware) use proprietary processors and they do not have to share horse power with anything other than doing reverb.

But in the end it does not make sense to me. It totally makes sense how a plug in EQ or Compressor would not stack up, but I am confused about reverbs.
Read Casey's from Bricasti explanation in this thread:

https://gearspace.com/board/new-prod...-fx-pcm96.html
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #143
Lives for gear
 
RCM - Ronan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
By the way both of my files have been digital compresors.
Did you saw any engineer posting here....

NO WAY THIS IS BOTH DIGITAL.

So it is totally stupid.eh
You forgot to include this user comment from 5down1up in your wrap up


Quote:
Originally Posted by 5down1up ➡️
yes i can hear it heh
the only thing i am hearing is that track 2 is appearing louder. reminds me a lil of the logic compressor. i dont like both of em
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #144
Gear Nut
 
pvoc3000's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm ➡️
I have said this many times, in the last 15 years since mixing completely ITB has been an option, I have never met a single high end mixer that works in rock or guitar based pop that has ever told me privately that they choose to mix ITB because it allows them to make better sounding records.
I've never heard anyone say that mixing ITB sounds better, just that it doesn't sound inferior to mixing OTB. I'm sure there are those that do, but the typical argument put forth in defense of mixing ITB is that there is no sonic penalty.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #145
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
of COURSE you CAN mix with plug ins. it happens every day on every level of the business from bedrooms to multi hundred thousand dollar productions. the radio plays plug in based mixes every day...including many hit songs.

however when (saving) time and money are not the primary influences.....i still have yet to hear the album (record, whatever you want to call it) that would indicate that plug ins are in any way sonically preferable to the real thing.

this coming from somebody who does not have the resources to mix OTB with any degree of regularity....so i wish plug ins were as satisfying as the hardware they emulate. also it seems logical to add that once a recording has been made digitally there IS a debate to be had as to whether you are doing additional damage to the signal by taking it back OTB so you can mix with hardware.

however...as far as the richness, and dimensionality and the PERSONALITY of the processing that occurs.....hardware comps and eqs (and all the other fun analog processing) simply kick the living crap out of plug ins.

this is evident both when using plug ins in a very moderate way (as i try to) or when you really slam them for dramatic effects. slamming plug ins for dramatic effect usually produces dramatically nasty un-listenable sounds.....which in most cases is NOT the kind of drama you are looking for when you really pin a signal. whereas when you really wail on a nice analog and/tube piece of hardware.....the destruction of the signal very often has a pleasant warm quality that does not hurt the ear.

plus...it is just FUN to use tangible objects to manipulate sounds in a way that playing with a mouse and keyboard just is not.

that said....it certainly is exponentially cheaper to mix with plug ins and easier to recall plug in based mixes....and that is a strong influence on preferences of engineers.

however it would be damn hard to argue that if you exclude EVERY influence on a project (if time and money are not top of mind) but the SOUND....that anyone would really prefer plug ins to their analog counterparts.

i am excluding classical music from the above....and MAYBE some acoustic jazz.....but even then.....there is a debate to be had.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #146
Deleted 99dc753
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm ➡️
You forgot to include this user comment from 5down1up in your wrap up
Ok I ask for the last time:

RCM can you hear if a great mix is done ITB or OTB...if you can you are my hero for the next 15 years and I will travel to the USA to book you for 14 days to teach me to get better mixes!!!

But I guess I know the answer already and with this it is useless to discuss this discussion.

I forgot to mention I will give you 500$ extra on your booking fee because you are great.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #147
Gear Nut
 
pvoc3000's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by eligit ➡️
however it would be damn hard to argue that if you exclude EVERY influence on a project (if time and money are not top of mind) but the SOUND....that anyone would really prefer plug ins to their analog counterparts.
When I used to mix on consoles, I very often preferred plug-in eq to console eq. I nearly always used plug-in gates and delays over outboard units. I even tended to favor plug-in compression when I was looking for strict leveling rather than a compression sound. Really, the last few times I used a console, all I used it for was a giant summing box.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #148
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvoc3000 ➡️
When I used to mix on consoles, I very often preferred plug-in eq to console eq. I nearly always used plug-in gates and delays over outboard units. I even tended to favor plug-in compression when I was looking for strict leveling rather than a compression sound. Really, the last few times I used a console, all I used it for was a giant summing box.
you are worthy of much credit then. i applaud your efforts.

just to continue on the "con" side tho....in many cases console eqs are not as nice as dedicated outboard eq (which in turn you would be hard pressed to equate to plug ins)....regardless.....good work in moving toward what is surely the next paradigm.

naturally then this all leads to the debate about texture and personality....and how much of this kind of flavor one likes...and how much of this flavor is delivered when tracking (risky but often the most fun way to do it) or when mixing (perhaps outboard comp/eq are the only tools that will provide the desired "juice").

delays....that is a worthy discussion.....really a matter of taste i would think....surely the "funk" of a analog or tube/tape delay unit cannot really be found in a plug in.....and most likely an analog delay cannot really sound "the same" as a plug in....and in many cases the engineer does not really want it to.

either way....carry on.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #149
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
Ok I ask for the last time:

RCM can you hear if a great mix is done ITB or OTB... [sequence edit by rcm]
But I guess I know the answer already and with this it is useless to discuss this discussion.
Hi Mr. Homes, I was not aware you had asked me this before, I apologize if I did not answer it, but i am happy to answer now. The answer is that with rock or guitar based pop, I can usually tell the majority of the time, but I sometimes get it wrong. There are characteristics of texture, width and depth and primarily how kicks drums and bass work together that are common hallmarks of completely ITB mixing. When I get a new CD and listen to it on a decent system I can usually tell if it was mixed mostly ITB or on an analog console. But like I said I get it wrong sometimes. I am not a genius or golden ear , but I have been doing this a long time.

There are some guys doing really good work with systems involving summing boxes and lots of analog gear, which is does not really count as fully ITB to me, that sound really cool. Also some totally ITB records are really great albums, but not necessarily amazing sounding.

More importantly I have yet to buy a CD and get completely blown away by how amazing it sounds, and then find out that it was mixed ITB. But I have bought records that sound amazing and found they were mixed on cheap analog consoles.

The discussions of "good enough" are not of much interest to me. I am struggling to make some of the best sounding records of all time (even though I will probably fail)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
if you can you are my hero for the next 15 years and I will travel to the USA to book you for 14 days to teach me to get better mixes!!!
I forgot to mention I will give you 500$ extra on your booking fee because you are great.
If you would like to book anything with me, my manager is Liz Redwing, if you PM me I can send you her contact info.

Thanks.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #150
Lives for gear
 
Kronos147's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm ➡️
Reverb is one instance where I fully expect plug ins to become comparable to hardware. I am actually surprised it has not happened yet. But for what ever reason, every time I have A-B'ed plug in reverb to a decent hardware unit, the hardware has had more depth and texture and blended into the mix better.
I find this as well, and it bums me out as well. I have used TL Space, ReVibe, Renn Reverb, and D-Verb. I still prefer my MPX-500 or Lexicon 200. But in the hybrid scheme, you can stay ITB and use a hardware verb in an insert. You can even print the track, which is actually a prudent thing to do.

I have to work however my customer needs me to, be it ITB/OTB. Often they are bringing the session back to their studio ITB so I need to do my part that way.

Often we do just drums here and we send them out individual outs to the console for quick solo purposes, but just leave the faders level. The goal has become more and more make it sound great like that by choosing the right instruments, mics, pres, and processing to achieve the sound. Then, no matter what happens to the session it should sound good if no one messes with it too much. If we have to playback with tons of EQ and compression here, then it is not great to give to the client that way.

Anyway, Mr. Holmes, I do find myself working in both camps, and despite preferences, when I work ITB, I should know what the best tools are. Reading many of your posts I find you to be a passionate proponant of ITB and I expect your level of experimentation exceeds mine in that arena.

Would you please be so kind as to share with me (us) some of your favorite plug in tools?

Thanks,
Eric
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